Paralipomenon

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Posts by Paralipomenon

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  144

  Have you ever read the review of Steven Hassan's books on Cult news.com?

  by Enzo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hi, to everyone my username is enzo, .

  recently a saw a video presented by john cedar presenting steve hassan as a cult expert.. .

  but read this reviews presented on cult news about steve hassan's books, and it's up to you make your own opinion about the video.

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  Paralipomenon

  @Enzo: Oh sorry, I thought you were sincere. I didn't realize you were just a Watchtower apologist. Didn't mean to feed the troll.
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  144

  Have you ever read the review of Steven Hassan's books on Cult news.com?

  by Enzo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hi, to everyone my username is enzo, .

  recently a saw a video presented by john cedar presenting steve hassan as a cult expert.. .

  but read this reviews presented on cult news about steve hassan's books, and it's up to you make your own opinion about the video.

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  Paralipomenon

  @Enzo - Here is her testimony in a custody case relating to Jehovah's Witnesses:

  Dr. Mann testified regarding the characteristics of “high-demand groups,” including authoritarian leadership, deceptive recruiting practices, and undue influence. She believed Jehovah’s Witnesses were “not only harmful to children,” but were also “harmful to relationships that are outside of the organization.” She testified that “they scare children, for example, telling them that their parents who are not part of the organization will die in Armageddon and will not make it to paradise . . . .” Dr. Mann did not “have an issue” with the beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses, but found it problematic that they “scare children who don’t have the ability to chose” and are unable to “say, well, I don’t want to be part of this organization.” She believed, and there was “ample evidence,” that Jehovah’s Witnesses “alienate[] parents from children, especially if one is in the group and one is not.” She was concerned that some of their practices could harm the healthy development of a child, including not celebrating holidays or birthdays, not allowing children to salute the flag, and not allowing blood transfusions. Dr. Mann testified she was surprised at how “meek” S.G. was when he testified and had expected him to be “a little bit more forceful about his opinions.” She believed it was possible his testimony was “coached.” She opined that terminating parental rights “at [that] stage and under th[o]se circumstances” was “overkill” and “unnecessary.”

  Source: www.courts.ca.gov/opinions/nonpub/A132721.DOC (Link is to a word document)
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  144

  Have you ever read the review of Steven Hassan's books on Cult news.com?

  by Enzo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hi, to everyone my username is enzo, .

  recently a saw a video presented by john cedar presenting steve hassan as a cult expert.. .

  but read this reviews presented on cult news about steve hassan's books, and it's up to you make your own opinion about the video.

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  Paralipomenon

  @Enzo: I am not familiar with a Dr. Manner. Could you link me to some of his work?
• 
  144

  Have you ever read the review of Steven Hassan's books on Cult news.com?

  by Enzo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hi, to everyone my username is enzo, .

  recently a saw a video presented by john cedar presenting steve hassan as a cult expert.. .

  but read this reviews presented on cult news about steve hassan's books, and it's up to you make your own opinion about the video.

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  Paralipomenon

  Here is a bit more about Mann. She subscribes to Lifton's Theory of Thought Reform which is presented below:

  1. Milieu control: control of communication within the environment resulting in a significant degree of isolation from surrounding society. Nonmembers to a group or relationship are labeled as ignorant, misled, or harmful.

  2. Mystical manipulation: The claim of absolute (or divine) authority that allows the leader to reinterpret events as she or he wishes, or make prophecies, predictions, or pronouncements at will, all for the purpose of controlling others.

  3. Demand for purity: The world is viewed in black and white, and adherents/clients are constantly exhorted to strive for the leader’s definition of perfection. The leader creates a narrow world of guilt and shame for client/adherents/followers.

  4. The cult of confession: Serious (and not so serious) infractions, as defined by the leader, are to be confessed and behavior is to be monitored at all times. The cult of confession makes it virtually impossible to attain the reasonable balance between worth and humility.

  5. The sacred science: The teachings of the leader are considered the ultimate truth, beyond all questioning or disputing. The leader of the group is considered above all questioning or criticism. Any personal, private quests for knowledge are suppressed.

  6. Loaded language: The leader and the clients/adherents/followers develop a jargon unique into itself, often non-understandable to outsiders. This jargon consists of numerous words and phrases which the members understand, but which really act to dull one’s ability to engage in critical thinking.

  7. Doctrine over person: The personal experiences of the clients/adherents/followers are subordinated to the “truth” held by the leader. The teachings of the leader are always more important than any individual. Past events are retrospectively altered, wholly rewritten, or ignored to make them consistent with the current “truth” held by the leader.

  8. Dispensing of existence: The leader has the prerogative to decide who has the right to exist and who does not. Usually held non-literally, this means that those outside the group or relationship are unspiritual, worldly, unconscious, lost, dying, stupid, unreachable, or whatever. Current clients/adherent/followers are always conscious that, if they stray too far from the leader’s truth, that they will also lose their right to existence.

  Here is an exchange between Lifton and Hassan. He does not seem to share Mann's rabid hate.

  http://vimeo.com/47757732
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  144

  Have you ever read the review of Steven Hassan's books on Cult news.com?

  by Enzo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hi, to everyone my username is enzo, .

  recently a saw a video presented by john cedar presenting steve hassan as a cult expert.. .

  but read this reviews presented on cult news about steve hassan's books, and it's up to you make your own opinion about the video.

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  Paralipomenon

  I looked up Mann before and the only court case I could find where they were used as an expert Witness was ruled in favor of the Watchtower. In research it is very difficult to find any opinion or articles from Mann other than they hate Hassan.

  Many here have used the BITE method to help free loved ones from cults so if you are going to make a case against Hassan, unfortunately it will be contrary to the personal life experience of many individuals here.

  I would be interested in hearing more about what Dr. Mann says about the Watchtower and how to reach those trapped within. Just stating that someone is court recognized but has no suggestions for how to help others is, well, useless.

  Personally Combatting Cult Mind Control did little for me as I felt it was targeted towards freeing recent converts to a cult and dwelt little on how to assist multigenerational members like my family. My wife found it helpful for her in her exit though but she wouldn't have considered to read it while she was still an active JW.

  JWN is likely a more sceptical and rational website than most. Many of the members here have been freed from the Watchtower and developed critical thinking skills to evaluate hype and propoganda (some just found a different cause to follow, though... )

  If you come here with a rational arguement with references, sources and links to your sources, you will likely find an open and spirited discussion and debate. Otherwise hype and accusations will be met with skepticism and quite likely riddicule.
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  56

  My JW mom is now willing to "listen" to our side...Need advice pls

  by 2pink in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my husband and i (both born in jws with extended family all "in" except for one of my sisters who left when we did) left the church 5 years ago.

  we did not fade, we just didn't believe it anymore, told our families so and left.

  obviously, big drama in our family after this, messy feelings, etc.

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  Paralipomenon

  I have learned so much since I have left, I wish I could take back my initial talk with my parents.

  As others have mentioned, don't hammer her with fact after fact. She might be open to honest discourse, this could also be an attempt at Witnessing to you and if you lay the "apostate" on too thick, she may panic and run.

  What I would suggest would be talking to her over the phone or email and ask her questions about why she joined and listen carefully!! If she was born in, ask her how she knew she was ready for baptism and what made her certain. That is her trigger, focus on that first.

  She would be more likely to question the organization as a whole if the reasoning for her joining is shown to be questionable. Each person is different.

  Common topics:

  1) Shown that God has a name, Jehovah, that was covered up by other religions

  2) Lost a close one in death and eager to see them again soon

  3) Likes the idea of living forever on earth

  4) Felt warm and invited when attending meetings.

  Just figure out her trigger and discuss that. Argue both sides. Do a summary of the actual truth of the topic, then explain in detail what reasonings the Watchtower has for that decision, then show how those reasonings are false.

  Sound familiar? Yup, that is the Watchtower conversion script. It will feel natural since that is how they are trained to hold bible studies. But you won't be misquoting or hiding any facts. If she thinks you are hiding or covering up anything, she could just brand you a liar and run back.

  I wish you luck and the big thing will be to open a discourse that will last many visits. After saying all you could on one topic, call it there and have a social visit. Let her think and process it and remember that the visit was pleasurable. Talk about good memories you had with her as well as good memories you have made since then. Let her know you are happy.

  Remember she may not have any social network outside of the congregation, that can be terrifying as well. Ask questions about the friends she used to have, what she enjoyed to to with them. Just not believing isn't enough if her life is lonely. Maybe pick a class or hobby that she likes and do it together so she can meet people that are not Witnesses and remember that for the most part, people are nice, not wicked and evil agents of Satan, out to steal her eternal prize.
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  35

  Do you like the people in the Bible?

  by Dis-Member in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the society always speaks about all the wonderful people and characters in the bible.. they always too speak of many of them as being so humble, faithful, loyal, diligent, loving, kind, wise, merciful etc, and worthy of imitation.

  also of how god blessed them followed by endless examples and reasons why we today should imitate them.. .

  they also speak of how wonderful it would be to meet some of these people in the future 'new system' and have often depicted scenes where the the survivors of armageddon would be gathered around some ancient resurrected faithful asking them questions and listening to their stories of times past.

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  Paralipomenon

  I like Jonah.

  God says "Get up and go preach"

  Jonah says "F that" and leaves.

  When forcibly dragged back, he is very grumpy and gets pissed that the city didn't get destroyed.
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  21

  What did ants evolve from?

  by Pinku in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  an ant's brain is very minuscule when compared to a chimpanzee, yet it is capable engineering!

  (not to mention its ability to support 5,000 times their body weight before losing their heads.

  http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/5970/20140210/ants-support-5-000-times-body-weight-before-losing-heads.htm).

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  Paralipomenon

  Ants are polygamists and therefore an abomination.
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  108

  Was droping bomb on Hiroshima in 1945 evil?

  by new hope and happiness in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  sorry for such a depressing question, but i was moved by a picture i saw of the consequences.

  ( a woman carrying her child) and i realised:-.

  a) it was a civillian population.. b) i don't see how a nuclear holocaust can ever be right.. c) they could have bombed tokyo where all the generals lived but chose hiroshima.. d) the irony after the bombing america conceeded to many of japans terms.. your opinion would be valued..

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  Paralipomenon

  Really tough to say.

  Japan doesn't share a border and while the government had surrendered it could remain a sleeping giant. Look at Germany from WWI. They surrendered but within a couple decades were remilitarizing. (granted, made easier by punitive sanctions by allied forces)

  Hitler and Stalin ruled with charisma and fear, Japan was ruled by religion. The emperor was thought to be a divine incarnation. They needed to dismantle the emperor or it would be a mere postponement of hostilities.

  The bombs broke the spirit of the Japanese. While they could have hit Tokyo, if all the generals were killed, negotiating a surrender may be difficult. The allies needed the war wrapped up and the bombs did it.

  I don't minimalize the loss of life but on one side, the bombs needed to have been used to show the world what they were. Not to create fear, but so that we could fear what we created. It has created a culture where not a sane person on the planet advocates atomic war. There is a difference between seeing videos of bomb blasts and their destructive capacity and two leveled cities.

  Due to their detonation we, as a species have vowed to do all in our power to never see them used again. This could have only happen after they were dropped somewhere. To the American's credit they did hit many cities in Japan with leaflets warning about the destructive power of the bombs and urged the people to leave the cities and force those in power out. People didn't leave and to me that is an indication that a surrender would not have been taken seriously.

  We don't have the luxury of knowing what would have happened if they weren't dropped. Perhaps the first military use would have been milder, or so much worse.
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  35

  Low Disk Space Persists

  by compound complex in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my c drive is running out of space.

  and to my surprise the low disk space problem persists after i free up disk space on my computer.

  i uninstalled a lot of programs.i thought that i have free space on my c drive.

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  Paralipomenon

  Can also look at virtual memory.

  When a computer's physical memory (RAM) is full, it will start using the hard drive as "virtual memory" The operating system will manage how much of your hard drive to use for this. If it is set at 10Gb, then all free space under 10Gb will be immediately allocated for virtual usage. how to manage this differs between OS, so look up your version and google the the correct settings to see if this is it.

  Current programs are requiring more and more RAM, so if you are running less than 4Gb of RAM, it may be the culprit.