i never really agreed on their explanation of divine justice.
if you are a homicidal maniac, rapist or if you simply don't go to the jw's meetings, your are going to be hurled in the lake of fire.
i think i'm going to ask some of my jw "friends" what they think about that.
If you are a homicidal maniac, rapist or if you simply don't go to the JW's meetings, your are going to be hurled in the lake of fire.
Oh, no, no no no no no no no........ My ex-husband is going to the paradise...he's doing just fine...going to all the meetings..parroting all the answers.... NO...he'll be there.....
Just I won't. 'Cause I stopped going after they said my divorcing him was unscriptural....
<!-- .style1 { font-family: arial; font-size: 18px; } .style2 { font-family: verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; } .style3 { font-family: arial; font-size: 16px; } .style4 {color: #ff0000} --> getting even with the watchtower societyis it necessary?at the close of their lives as jehovahs witnesses, some individuals have written books, .
created websites and others have approached the media and the legal system about the .
watchtower society.
If it is written down maybe some of them will one day read the information and things might just click.
BINGO !!!
trying to get topic page started (keep getting 'error page' instead)...hopefully letter will show in next post....
It finally worked...sort of. The formatting is changed--and highlighting gone, and who knows what else...but at least it's on here!!
EDIT: ALL NAMES AND LOCATIONS ARE CHANGED, BTW
Keeping this stuff to myself (especially among the large extended JW family) has been driving me crazy--I need all the feedback I can get about how to handle this.
His dad is an elder. My ex is currently very active and has my kids shunning me and believing all his lies about me. They, of course, know none of this stuff...and I can't tell it to them. It is seriously making me crazy to stay silent any longer.
What I would like to know is--TO SEND or NOT to send...and if so...to just his parents (or dad), or to his sisters too, or all the siblings, or the congregation(s)......... And what ORDER, for that matter. I don't even know if his mom would open the letter, even if it's addressed to her husband, and burn it like she did one I wrote to her years ago, without him ever seeing it. (That one was addressed to her, though.)
Still...can't sit on it any longer...have to stand up and fight back...for my sanity and for the sake of BALANCING THE TRUTH.......................... The record HAS to be set straight......................
FEEDBACK, PLEASE!!!!!
trying to get topic page started (keep getting 'error page' instead)...hopefully letter will show in next post....
Seth and Peggy,
Sally
and Samantha were sexually molested by Steven.Steven outright confessed to me about Sally.
He did not confess outright about Samantha…but the substance of his comments to me confirms it. Samantha deserves to know this.
I’m telling you this because, as parents, I can only assume you love your children equally and would like to see support and healing for yourdaughters from this terrible traumatizing fact in their lives.
Samantha deserved to bebelieved and supported when she came forward with those allegations against Steven years ago—and all these years since—not to be dismissed as a pathological liar….
Sally deserves to be supported and lovingly encouraged now to acknowledge the awful truth that she’s felt pressured to keep tucked away for years and years and years…not by Steven at present, necessarily, but by her own uninformed and inappropriate guilt and fear. I’m sure he made threats at the time, too, and she learned to live with it. Her denial is sky-high…and I would never have guessed it, had Stevem not told me himself. I can see the signs since then, though.
As much as you love your son—and I know you do—you need to understand that HE IS NOT WHO HE PRESENTS HIMSELF TO BE and has left many devastated victims in his wake. [He has sexually harassed, molested, and outright RAPED me, as his girlfriend and as his wife, countless times over the course of many years, even right up to the last night before leaving for Montana with the kids, divorce papers already signed.]
This fact needs to be made known…for the sake of healing for his past victims [two of them your own daughters--the third regarded you as her ‘parents in the Truth’]…and for the sake of preventing future victims. I worry about the welfare of any future wife [or granddaughters of his/ mine] that he might have access to….
HEWILL REPEAT…it’s what they do…and HE HAS NOT CONFESSED OR REPENTED………… He still denies and manipulates and deceives and intimidates and threatens—to prevent this truth from coming to light.
But
I cannot hide it for him any longer. By all rights, this man belongs listed on a Sex Offenders Registry. I mean this quite literally.The molestation of Sally he confessed to me HIMSELF a-year-and-a-half into our marriage. It was told to me while Sally and Lyle were gone on their first married vacation together (to Jamaica, I believe).
It turns out this is why he did not show up for either of her weddings—as he later confessed to me after I came home from attending Sally’s wedding to Arthur…with the kids but without him. It’s the reason you had to send one of his brothers (Steph? Skip?) to hunt him down and make him come to the reception for family pictures at Sally’s first wedding.
[That day, I tried everything I could to get him to start getting ready to go, spending more time doing that than getting ready myself. And then when we left the house running five minutes behind—he screamed at memercilessly and for the entire length of the car ride to your house in Spark Canyon, for making us late--telling me, "Now we C-A-N-’T G-O, because we’re five minutes late—and it’s all YOUR FAULT!!!"]
We sat in your living room during the ceremony, where Steven laid on the couch and sulked, and did all he could to make sure I acceptedfull blame for his displeasure.
This is the kind of insanity and verbal abuse I lived with the entire time we were together…and this does not begin to encompass the description of physical and sexual abuse I endured from him as well. I will spare you those details, because I know your lesser ‘love’ for me could never allow you to be adequately outraged on my behalf.
I only hope that love for your daughters allows you to feel adequate outrage on THEIR behalf! Because, even if you couldn’t care less for me, being not your daughter—theyAREyour daughters…every bit as much as he is your son.
He told me that he used to molest Sally "for a long time"
(but wouldn’t specify if that meant weeks, months, or years). He said he used to "spoon her" and "hump her from behind"—over the clothes, as I understood it. [This he has also done many times to me, knowing full well I didn’t want it, among other things.]He said he eventually stopped because "She clawed the back of my hand."
He also said, "She started to develop breasts. I was curious," and "When I reached out to touch them, she clawed the back of my hand. She made it bleed." He said this is what made him finally stop. He said, "If she hadn’t done that, I would‘ve probably kept on doing it."
About her developing breasts, Steven said: "They were ugly." When I asked, "Why would you say that?" He said, "Because they were new breasts, and new breasts are ugly."
I have no idea what age Sally was when all this started happening…or stopped…or when she started developing breasts (and, subsequently, clawed his hand, etc.—finally standing up for herself). The poor kid was probably terrified out of her mind and racked with inappropriate self-blame and afraid to tell anybody!!! I know I was, in dealing with Steven—and that was as an adult!
--And don’t you dare blame her for ‘allowing’ it, or not speaking out, or screaming out, or whatever at the time. You already missed the boat once in properly supporting and protecting your daughter(s). Don’t miss it again!
And Samantha---------------------
Seth, I remember when you came over to the apartment in Faron Heights, seemingly to ‘visit’ with Steven and me, but then in the parking lot before leaving, you finally broached the subject of Samantha’s sexual abuse allegations against Steven. You said, "Sorry, but since the allegations have been brought up, I have to ‘investigate’ them."
You said, "Samantha said you ‘penetrated’ her. Did you ‘penetrate’ her?"
Steven got instant tears and said, "Penetrate her? NO! —I never penetrated her!" You seemed satisfied with his response and asked no further questions. [I believe that’s when you said the above, apologizing for the ‘investigation.’] I, however, had more questions—which I thought for sure you would bring out, but you never did…and at the time, I erroneously thought it best to leave the discussion up to the two men and say nothing. I thought for sure you would ask more questions—!
See, Seth, I knew of a friend who, at age 13, passed out at a party. She was raped then—they penetrated her with barbells. So I knew ‘penetration’ did not just have to be with the penis…which is what the two of you seemed to be focused on. I knew the word ‘penetration’ could also mean with fingers or otherobjects.
So I DID question Steven further myself, later, when it was just the two of us. I told him what I knew of this (that penetration doesn’t have to be with just the penis) and asked him if he could think of anything AT ALL that could make her say this. ANY THING AT ALL……………………
At first, he said a tearful no, but I kept prodding still—gently— and after a minute or so
, he said, "Well…there was this one time in the tub …." He refused to say any more after that.Not an outright confession of having molested Samantha but, in substance, it was the same.
The confession about molesting Sally WAS outright, from Steven’s OWN mouth to me .
[Like so many conversations with him…I wish I had had a recorder.]
And though, to my knowledge, he has NOT confessed this to anyone, Steven has a nearly fifteen-yearhistory of having sexually abused me .
I don’t know how long his sexual abusive history extends, if you include his two sisters in the time table—nor if anyone else has been sexually victimized by him. (Certainly three is enough!!!)
I am absolutely telling the truth about this, Seth and Peggy. I cannot tell you the number of lies Steven has told to cover his own tracks on this and so many other things…including lies told TO ME and ABOUT ME over the years (during the marriage AND post-divorce). I won’t go into that…it’s not the focus of this letter.
What you two need to realize is that you have two daughters (and a former daughter-in-law) who need your support, your love—and to hear from you "I believe you" —in order to H-E-A-L from these horrible violations they have experienced from the same man…who gets away scot-free with a nearly squeaky-clean [now "spiritual"] reputation and image. If he ever got married again, his new wife would be subjected to the exact same things.
By the way, Steven is not the only son of yours guilty of such things [according to Steven, that is].
He once told me that he believes he was duped into holding a ladder to the neighbor girl’s bedroom window (Carrie in South Carolina) so his brother, Seth Jr., could climb up and go in. He said he heard a lot of screaming from her (saying, "No, no!!") after Seth Jr. climbed in—he was in there a long time. Then, while telling the story, Steven clasped his hand over his own mouth with instant tears and said, "I think he raped her…."
He began sobbing at this point in the story. He left my apartment an absolute wreck, refusing to say any more, sobbing uncontrollably in a way I had never seen before, and have not seen him do since.
He had said it seemed odd to him, at the time, that his brother was suddenly being nice to him. –All the siblings agree that Seth Jr. was VERY ABUSIVE on the farm. Steven was crying when he said, "He was only being nice to me so he could trick me into holding the ladder… I thought he was being nice because he liked me!" It was his first realization that the ladder and events that followed were key elements to this memory of his brother—previously, Steven’s only fond memory of Seth Jr.—an adult’s perspective on a child’s experience…Steven said he thinks he was about eight years old or so at the time.
Also, Steven told me that Seth Jr. forced Carrie to take off her shirt in front of Stewart, who (he guessed) was about five years old at the time. In the loft of the barn—Seth Jr., Stewart, and Carrie were up in the loft, and Steven was below, where he could hear but not see. He said he remembers hearing Seth Jr. ordering and threatening Carrie to take off her shirt to show Stewart her breasts (not the word he used). Carrie was crying and refusing, and Stewart was crying for Seth Jr. to stop it. As far as I know, Seth Jr. didn’t stop until the shirt came off.
Stewart didn’t want it any more than Carrie did.
I told this story to Tammy once—and she said, "I know—Stewart told me that story—it was very traumatic for him!" Who knows how many others—and how many other ways—Seth Jr. has sexually abused as well…. All the siblings agree that he was relentlessly abusive, physically and verbally and, evidently, sexually as well…and got away with it. I don’t know whether he sexually abused any of his sisters or not.
Steven said there was a farmer neighbor who used to show porn to Seth Jr., and then Seth Jr. would show it to his younger brothers. He guessed that Seth Jr. was about eleven years old when this began. [I don’t know if the farmer was a relative of Carrie and Prissy’s or not.]
Steven also told me, during the separation of the first OFP (Order for Protection) that I had against him, that Skip had read my detailed listing of abuses on the OFP copy, and said to him, "I’m glad Deb doesn’t tell anybody about the things I do." And then Skip told Steven that he will sometimes "put [his] pecker on her back and tell her, ‘"I’m not movingit till you give in!’" He said he "couldn’t sleep" until he…got that….
Skip was using it as a sleeping pill—regardless of Deb’s feelings at the time. Steven operated much the same way—just not those exact words…and sometimes WHILE I was asleep…even after saying no….even when I had a fever, Seth. --EVEN WHEN I HAD A FEVER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How does one learn to live with that?
There isso much more I could tell you….
These are only the stories/ incidents I know from STEVEN’SOWNMOUTH-----and my own experience with Steven corroborates the horrible truth of it A - L - L ! ! ! !
Like I said, I will spare you the details of what he has done to ME-----but for your owndaughters’ welfare…you certainly ought to know about this!! They need to be believed and supported—and so does any future wife or granddaughter or any other female who might come forward with allegations about sexual abuse by Steven. [I’m hoping to prevent future incidents of abuse, if possible!]
If you’re wondering why it is only just now that I am coming forward with this stuff…it took y – e – a – r - s for me to get to the point where I could call it for what it was---RAPE!!
And—it has taken this long of my being away from him and his abusive influence to finally gain courage enough to speak openly and confront the ‘family’…whom I found out quickly were not my family [though I had naively regarded them as such]…and especially after seeing that Samantha was so callously disregarded and mocked, by the family as a whole, after she came forward.
And yes…I HAVE told the elders in the congregations about this stuff, at least since my earlyyears in Green Pond…some of whom are now dead, some have since had strokes, some no longer elders, etc. But—the crime of sexual abuse being what it is—there were not TWO WITNESSES to the same incident. Only separate witnesses to separate events…of the same nature…perpetrated by the same man.
Go figure.
Seth, if you really want to know the truth about what has happened here…
about this so-called ‘brother’ that the congregational policies have so thoroughly protected…
at the expense of twoof your daughters for sure—I have no way of knowing if Sybil or Sue were abused sexually by him or not…
…and at the expense of his wife, the sister who was faithful to Jehovah –AND faithful toher husband!!--throughout…
If you want to know the truth about what went on under your roof—UNDER JEHOVAH’S EYES—feel free to call me. Anytime.
If you’re thinking at all of talking to any of your kids about this—especially to Steven or Sally—I would strongly recommend you do so face to face…so you can see the initial reaction in their eyes and on their faces. Over the phone just won’t tell you…it won’t show you. You need to see the truth for yourself. You need to talk to them face to face…yourself…to know….
I don’t hate you, Seth and Peggy. I don’t even hate Steven. But this stuff cannotbe covered over anymore.
Perpetuating the silence will always be at the expense of the victims. Always. Don’t care about me—fine…but care about your daughters .
Your former daughter-in-law and fellow human being,
xxxxxxxxx
trying to get topic page started (keep getting 'error page' instead)...hopefully letter will show in next post....
still trying to get letter to post....may take a while
trying to get topic page started (keep getting 'error page' instead)...hopefully letter will show in next post....
Trying to get topic page started (keep getting 'error page' instead)...hopefully letter will show in next post....
re: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/8/116108/1.ashx.
a bethel insider in the know told me that all of the child abuse lawsuits where the watchtower bible and tract society was one of the defendants were settled back in the beginning of this year.
i questioned it and called napa myself and they were absolutely settled back then.
(like the JW's growth ONLY in illiterate countries, last I heard.
Interesting point. At the meetings, they always explain this phenomenon as being the difference between those who have too much materialism (i.e., physical and financial needs met--and so, too many fun and unnecessary distractions taking away from kingdom interests) vs. those who don't...and so still recognize their own spiritual need.
Then they point out how those in the poorer countries feel sorry for those who have materialism to contend with, as a temptation and a snare from the devil.
Gee...I didn't know 'materialism' was a synonym for 'literacy'...I feel soooo sorry for the people who have all those temptations of literacy to contend with....
Spin doctors indeed....
not sure if this has been discussed before (probably) but this is something that just occurred to me:.
religions and cults employ some very well documented psychological techniques to deceive, persuade and control people - logical fallacies, thought-reform, etc.
techniques which can be easily identified in action when one is aware that they exist.
Why would this be? I'm confused.
Hon...you're not confused. You just explained it to yourself...
<!-- .style1 { font-family: arial; font-size: 18px; color: #cc0000; } .style2 { font-family: arial; font-size: 16px; color: #cc0000; } .style3 { font-family: verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; } .style4 {color: #000000} --> are interracial relationshipsa taboo subject?the exposure to individuals of other racial backgrounds was helpful in my past .
jehovahs witness life to see past racial prejudice.
i am grateful for the exposure.
Okay, Stapler99---I am officially
READY
TO
P - U - K - E !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<!-- .style1 { font-family: arial; font-size: 18px; } .style2 { font-family: arial; font-size: 16px; } .style3 { font-family: verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; } .style5 {color: #0000cc} .style6 {color: #000000} --> does a school yard bully attitude take over this discussion board?growing up, i can recall such times when a rival would want to pick a fight .
with me and when we met, he would bring along two of his friends and i .
sometimes, i would knock their block off and sometimes, it was the other.
To tell you the truth, I took him for a troll and I'm still not too sure he isn't.
ROFL !!!
Yeah...as I have been mistaken for a troll...and have taken someone for a troll just yesterday--verdict still on that one.... I guess we all have our own ways of stating things, and reacting, and hot button issues..................................................
