Posts by J-ex-W

63

Label the act for returning to JWism for family only (e.g. Gumby)

by UnConfused in

i think it's a deserving act of love to make the sacrifice to rejoin a cult in order to stay connected to your family.

it's putting your love of your family over so so many things.

what could we call it so we could easily understand someone's actions who also does this?

J-ex-W

I love the ones suggested, 'gumbnumbing'--how it'd have to feel sitting through those meetings that way.

And 'gumwrapper'--to do it so you can leave on good terms. LOL

How about combining these two:

Remember hearing talks with bad grammar and made up words because the brothers didn't know the correct word to use? For instance, someone with a chip on his shoulder goes through a set of challenging experiences which results in his learning something new and developing a more humble attitude. Instead of saying 'He was humbled by the experience,' brothers would say, 'The experience 'humble-ized' him.'

So, in honor of Gumby's proposal, and in reference to the humility (and humilitation endured): How about, a person with a chip on their shoulder about the 'truth,' but who decides for the sake of family to stay low-key about it...we can say he's now gumblized.

He's gone gumble or He's gumblizing it --verb

gumbled or gumblized --adjective

He's a gumbler or He's a gumblizer --noun

Plus it denotes the gamble involved.... --Just a thought.

-----------Good luck to you, Gumby!! I know it's a hard decision whichever way you go.

6

mindset

by Bobhere in

jw
friends

some months ago my exwife was facing death due to a massive blood loss.

we have a son 23years old i kept him company during the night while his mother went through several proceedures to find the leak.

early in the morning with her mouth full of tubes & despite objections from an elders wife who said "no she does not want to see me she is frightened that i am in the hospital" lorna insisted on seeing me.

J-ex-W

Bobhere----------I feel for you, big time!!! ... I feel your frustration...and hurt...and pain...and anger...and undeserved shame and humiliation... You can check out my posts under "Friends: can barely see through the tears" and under "Family: any advice?" to get an idea. Unfortunately, you are not alone. On the other hand, fortunately, you are not alone! We're here for you.

8

Ad hominem experts

by KAYTEE in

jw
friends

ad hominem !!

in footballing terms kicking the player rather than the ball.. how many times when discussing a problem (serious or otherwise) with elders were you attacked rather than the point you were trying to make, you the innocent one would come away feeling quite guilty.

they are past masters at this technique, coupled with the fact that they attack you on your own.

J-ex-W

avidbiblereader----------- I cannot emphasize enough how much I agree with what you said!! I kept trying to tell my elders that the advice they kept giving me just DOES NOT WORK when you're dealing with an abuser...that it may apply with the general person, but not with an abuser. They kept telling me [or checking to see if this was the need] to pray more, go out in service more, study more, attend meetings more, give comments more.

I was about as model as a model witness can be given my limitations---was killing myself to follow through, even--and kept being told that if I did these things MORE, my abusive a--hole of a husband would somehow be moved to changed his entire orientation toward the world [me top dog, you under me]. In one of my last meetings with them [supposedly to 'encourage' me!], I finally told them outright, "There is nothing I can do that can make J---- act right. There is nothing I can do to affect that." [with specific examples at the time]

They finally had to agree, puzzled as could be that--'hey--here's a situation where this advice doesn't work...I wonder what to make of that.' They really have left me alone since then. One of them even said early in the session, "I've been trying to think what we as a congregation have done to show you that you are a valued sister, and I've come up with nothing." So...there you have it...from the elder's own mouth. And that was from a sincere one, who actually gave the MOST help [or attempted help] out of anybody. So even the one who gave the most could see that my situation had received the least [attention], so to speak.

And the kicker is, with the JW mindset, there are a goodly number of those who would see it as, 'Well, obviously, Jehovah's holy spirit just was not operative there.' [as in, not with me--not withIN me...I didn't get the help, not because of shortcomings in the congregation/ religion but, because I was not deemed worthy by Jehovah...I would have received the help I needed if I were well pleasing to Jehovah.] --Sick mindset...sick, sick!!!

26

Nosferatu's School of Dating - Lesson 2.2 - Building Rapport

by Nosferatu in

since many have commented that lesson 2.1 has "no feeling", portrays the individual as an abuser, and all the other negative comments, i decided to cover rapport next.. the unfortunate thing is i can only give you tips on how to build good rapport.

i will not be giving you magic lines that will make her fall in love with you.

it's your own personality, your enthusiasm, your wit, your sense of humor, your creativeness, and your imagination that has to do the actual work.. many people will tell you "forget about all these tips, tricks and techniques.

J-ex-W

Great comments J-ex-W. They mirror my thinking to a great extent.

Serendipity---------I love you...especially as Stevie Nicks...my kinda woman! --Wish I were gay.

40

Nosferatu's School of Dating - Lesson 2.1 - The Approach

by Nosferatu in

now that you've done your practice on starting conversations with strangers, it's time to actually approach women.. first of all, let's cover what not to do when approaching a woman:.

1) never approach a woman from behind.

you will startle her.

J-ex-W

A neg-hit IS used to penetrate a woman’s bitch shield.

A neg-hit IS used to bring a woman down off her self-imposed pedestal.

A neg-hit is SINCERE. Women can spot phony a mile away.

Most importantly, A neg-hit IS used to bring a woman’s self perception more into line with reality.

RAther misogynistic, isn't it?

Actually, Serendipity---a neg-hit, in prinicple, works exactly the same way when enacted on a male. So, in this context, yeah--it comes across as misogynistic, because all the language/ behavior aims it toward the female. But males are every bit as susceptible. I just think there's less all-out advice out there that tells females to employ the tactics. Come to think of it...on the contrary...females are most often advised to do the opposite: Build up their target--er, man.

26

Nosferatu's School of Dating - Lesson 2.2 - Building Rapport

by Nosferatu in

since many have commented that lesson 2.1 has "no feeling", portrays the individual as an abuser, and all the other negative comments, i decided to cover rapport next.. the unfortunate thing is i can only give you tips on how to build good rapport.

i will not be giving you magic lines that will make her fall in love with you.

it's your own personality, your enthusiasm, your wit, your sense of humor, your creativeness, and your imagination that has to do the actual work.. many people will tell you "forget about all these tips, tricks and techniques.

J-ex-W

Neil Strauss (aka Style) mentioned something interesting in his book. When a man is able to easily attract women, he will not resort to rape or suicide to "fix" his inability to attract the opposite sex.

HOO!!!! Neil Strauss has no idea what rape and suicide are all about. Rape is not about sexual attraction, it is about violence--control. Rape is all about usurping power/ control...suicide is all about extreme loss of power/ control...both in the superlative. Neither balanced. Approaches that are balanced avoid extremes, period, so--yes--in that very B-R-O-A-D sense, what Strauss said could be considered true. As in the 'he threw the manure and hit the side of the barn''-sense, it could be true.

26

Nosferatu's School of Dating - Lesson 2.2 - Building Rapport

by Nosferatu in

since many have commented that lesson 2.1 has "no feeling", portrays the individual as an abuser, and all the other negative comments, i decided to cover rapport next.. the unfortunate thing is i can only give you tips on how to build good rapport.

i will not be giving you magic lines that will make her fall in love with you.

it's your own personality, your enthusiasm, your wit, your sense of humor, your creativeness, and your imagination that has to do the actual work.. many people will tell you "forget about all these tips, tricks and techniques.

J-ex-W

Just because the cookie cutter makes the same shape cookie each time, it doesn't mean that the ingredients are also identical.

EEWWWWWW!!!!! This sounded like a cookie-cutter JW-defense response. Somebody wipe the baking grease off me, pleeeeeease!!!!

26

Nosferatu's School of Dating - Lesson 2.2 - Building Rapport

by Nosferatu in

since many have commented that lesson 2.1 has "no feeling", portrays the individual as an abuser, and all the other negative comments, i decided to cover rapport next.. the unfortunate thing is i can only give you tips on how to build good rapport.

i will not be giving you magic lines that will make her fall in love with you.

it's your own personality, your enthusiasm, your wit, your sense of humor, your creativeness, and your imagination that has to do the actual work.. many people will tell you "forget about all these tips, tricks and techniques.

J-ex-W

The unfortunate thing is I can only give you tips on how to build good rapport. I will not be giving you magic lines that will make her fall in love with you. It's your own personality, your enthusiasm, your wit, your sense of humor, your creativeness, and your imagination that has to do the actual work.

Ohmigod!!! Nosferatu, I love the new you!!

One of the best ways to get a woman to quickly become comfortable around you is to treat her like you've known her for years, or even like your bratty little sister.

Actually, the bratty little sis is another dynamic I'd put qualifiers on. Whether it's little sis or little bro, it's one-up or one-down, and can inadvertently set up a pattern of relational imbalance. In fact, I had this specific conversation with a guy I once dated for a bit. He said said one of the things he liked about me right away was how he could pick on me--back and forth--like I was his sister or something.

I said that works great for friends, but in a partnership--like business partners, e.g.--less picking and more working on pooling of your 'resources,' your individual strengths--toward a common goal is what works. And marriage is supposed to be just that--a partnership. Best to learn to practice that kind of dynamic from the get-go. He agreed, and our interaction changed and actually improved. [Some picking is good...but too much is still too much. I say this not to say it's wrong--just to say, Aim for balance.]

pat her on the head like a dog and say "Awww, pooor (her name)".

NO. Play with her by all means--she may also play this way with you. But never pat her on the head. You don't like it. She doesn't like it. Pat her shoulder, arm, back, knee (and only if her knee is covered)...but not her head. There's also a practical component to this: Most women have invested at least some of their effort, energy--creative and emotional--and time into getting their hair to set just where it is. Don't dis this.

Sometimes just one pat or a hard brush/ bump is enough to set the collapse in motion. You may not see it, but she can physically feel it. The hairspray, gel, mousse, or whatever literally breaks its brittle hold and the hair starts falling out of place. Even if it doesn't ruin the look, it still feels funny and is an annoying distraction--which means she'll be unpleasantly distracted from paying attention to you, and because of you. That leaves her just one step away from being annoyed by you, if she isn't already.

Only pat her head--EVER--after you already know her well and know that she has not already 'invested' in her hair that day. It's just courtesy. Like not patting a car hood that's just been waxed. [Not picking on you, Nos.... Most guys just don't know this.]

Try to have some fun with every serious question she asks you.

Again: Some picking is good...but too much is still too much. Aim for balance. And poking fun with EVERY serious question is too much. A couple, three, maximum four. Beyond that...you're less likely to get to a fifth or sixth. [or to a fifth and sex!]

ask her (playfully with a smile) if it turns her on.

LOL !!!! Okay, Nos--now I KNOW you just throw these in there to start off the howls!!! LOL I have YET to be not creeped out this approach. Never ask a girl, 'Does that turn you on,' unless you already know her very, very, very, well!!! That just says slimy perv. Those guys who have tried that approach have gotten NOWHERE with me--even if all systems were 'go' up until that point.

You can also let her know that mundane things (like certain colors or goofy sounds) make you horny. REMEMBER this is all in a playful atmosphere, and sexual humor makes conversation interesting and fun.

Okay, you're putting out the playful feelers about sex--whether or not she's receptive. But guys...don't be surprised if this is the point at which all your good work heretofore just comes apart!!! Putting out these kinds feelers about sex is fine--if you have a thick skin for sudden and sharp rejection and are prepared to let acquaintance abruptly halt here. There are more subtle, tasteful, and certainly less creepy ways to accomplish this. Let me call up some of my best old boyfriends and get back to you on what they used...but I guarantee that the man with this approach was left in my dust.

The quicker you make her feel comfortable around you, the quicker you're going to get your first kiss from her (possibly during or by the end of the first night you interact with her),

Don't aim for quick...aim for quality. This applies...ahem!...in other settings as well.

I'm going to put out a suggestion: Go out and get yourself a part time job to practice interacting with people you don't know. Get a part-time job with a large turnover rate (fast food restaraunts are great for this). Practice getting new people, male and female, to feel comfortable around you in a short amount of time. The practice will genuinely pay off.

Ya know, Nos...I never would have thought of recommending this, but I think it's actually good. It's actually where I got my first...lesson...in focusing on what pleases the 'customer'--the smiling face, the friendly chat, the innocuous flirting. Huh!! Unique, creative, and GOOD advice! KUDOS

Okay, and now I'm just too lazy to go in and put all the emoticons, so...just imagine your favorite ones where you like. Nos, the stuff I have 'left alone'--sounds really good. Really. And again, thanks for the distraction. It's not that I need to doggedly dog your ass...I am just in much need of a pleasant [for me] distraction at this point. Thanks for dutifully providing that....

40

Nosferatu's School of Dating - Lesson 2.1 - The Approach

by Nosferatu in

now that you've done your practice on starting conversations with strangers, it's time to actually approach women.. first of all, let's cover what not to do when approaching a woman:.

1) never approach a woman from behind.

you will startle her.

J-ex-W

You've pushed me into getting more scientific on this part...

Nos-----Actually, pushing you to get...more...something. Specific, really. A lot of what you say works for certain things ONLY and ONLY if done within a very narrow set of parameters does it achieve something positive for both persons. I'm not saying you're way out of line on all things----just that I think it's important to make a few [okay, a LOT] more 'disclaimers' about the approaches you are recommending, in terms of identifiying the pitfalls of being out of BALANCE, in whatever direction, when applying the skills involved.

Example:

Your idea of the "nice guy" doesn't match a male's definition of "nice guy". In the male's version, the women don't want the nice guy, they want the jerk. The nice guy will tell her she's beautiful, ask permission to date her, and will let her walk all over him if it makes her happy. The nice guy would never approach a group of people to attempt getting a date. He would sit in the corner and hope that maybe this girl will notice him and walk over. Besides, one of the men at the table could be her boyfriend, and he wouldn't want to risk offending her.
That is the definition of a nice guy.

My definition of the "nice guy" doesn't match the UNeducated male's definition of a "nice guy." I'd like you to get more specific in your terms, while educating your readers: This description of a 'nice guy' is, in fact, descriptive of a PASSIVE guy. And a passive approach to meeting girls/ relationships/ life is not automatically remedied by rebounding to its polar opposite, an aggressive approach---which is what a lot of inexperienced [or misinformed] males will do in effort to overcompensate for concerns about passivity. [Females are doing so more and more these days, too.]

I'd like to see you provide examples of approach that demonstrate behavior that is 1) passive, 2) agressive, 3) passive-aggressive, and 4) assertive. These are the four potential options for addressing any situation/ confrontation--relational pursuits as well ["The Chase"]. When you figure out how to identify and exemplify these (especially the only truly balanced approached--assertive--I'm sure you'll see that a lot of the howling at your posts subsides [both the disdainful laughter and the indignant protests). I'm just looking to see some balance here, dude. That's it. Just balance. The truly nice guy is nice and assertive--not a doormat...and knows how to rein in his alpha (and recognises the need/ wisdom in doing so). Balance.

Now, look at the nice guy vs jerk situation. Nice guys complain that women go for the abusive jerks. The key here is that she's not attracted to the abuse, she's attracted to a strong, alpha male.
In my single years, I experimented with how much I could get away with. I was down right mean to some of the girls I dated. The unbelieveable part was the more of an asshole I became, the more the women put up with it, and the harder it was for them to let go of me. This kind of stuff still amazes me when I see it in real life.

Women are attracted to a man who is con-fi-dent and com-pe-tent. Attracted to displays of confidence and competence. An assertive male displays beautifully!!!

I'm in my post-divorce single years now, and I've experimented quite a bit myself (because we all learn by the process of pushing the boundaries a bit), but I went nowhere near to the point of getting mean--because that, to me, is just plain UNETHICAL. Males don't deserve to be jerked around by me, anymore than females deserve to be jerked around by you (and/ or your 'students').

What you are perceiving as what 'works' as described, is in fact the actual set-up of an emotional abuse dynamic. Guys go out of their way to ensure that their female--target, or whatever--is off balance [by your own words, even], and then complain that she is emotionally unbalanced. --All so he can feel alpha, like he has the upperhand. [Some females do this too.]

There is some place for minor game/ role-playing tussles like these, as long as it not a perpetual aim of one to keep the other unbalanced [or mutual aim, for that matter]. There can be some fun give-and-take on the power tussles, as long as that's what it is--GIVE AND TAKE. [Genuinely allowing the other person to have upperhand sometimes, but aiming for equal balance the majority of the time.]

Nosferatu, your advice must be given with qualifiers about the need to employ hunter-prey behavior only for short-term, specific purposes, and then to abandon these tactics once initial interest has been established. And it must be exercised only in a manner that benefits both--which you've already admitted has not been your aim in the past [benefitting both]. --And it must not be assumed that you catching her benefits her as well as you!

All of the advice you give can be equally applied with tables turned: Female hunting male. I know, because I am a natural flirt who employs a lot of the above tactics unconsciously and has to CONSCIOUSLY rein it in so that I do not inadvertently set in motion a hunter-prey [then prey-turned hunter!] dynamic. I have some alpha-female--which I rein in, as I recommend a man rein in his alpha-male. [Wait till you're both in bed--then you can let that stuff loose!]

I don't recommend downgrading the other person in any circumstances.

Hoo!! It's getting sudsy up here on my soapbox. I'll tell you what, Nos--good, bad, or indifferent your thread gets me worked up into a lather. --Actually, it's good. It's a good distraction from the other...not so fun...stuff going on in my life. Thanks for the distraction!

Floor, anyone? Don't slip on the bubbles....

22

How many of us were janitors?

by Fleshybirdfodder in

jw
friends

lovelylils post made me think.... dubs pretty much rule that particular sector.

my mother was more proud of me working for the p.o.

cleaning toilets than if i had gone on to be a doctor.

J-ex-W

My ex-husband did the janitorial thing for quite a while, working for his JW brother. Now he does industrial painting, working for his JW brother. My sons, who all excel at the top nationally academically--included in the top onepercentile!--will not be going on to any kind of schooling. They already have a 'trade' (working for their JW uncle).