Posts by humbled

78

Can you prove Jesus existed outside of Bible (so called) evidence?

by punkofnice in

i thought i'd done a thread on this before but can't find it.. so.

did jesus actually exist?.

without using the bible i'd like to see obvious proof..

humbled

Runasfast--You value a free and open(not bought and closed religion) appreciation of Jesus A lot of people hate anything that faintly resembles the crushing religion we escaped.

So many of us even without scholarly credentials like leolia eventually get to what her studies told her:No proof but a Jesus who was crucified probably happened.

Rest assured that there are plenty of individuals who don't have to meet HIGH standards of proof of existence for their "lives" to affect people. Robin Hood, Shakespeare,socrates,Homer, etc.--My great-great grandfather Thomas Dolan and Mary Kelly had a past that melted into hundreds of other Dolans and Kellys that left Ireland and melted into the U.S.--they came from obscurity, lived without leaving much proof--Except I am here now--yet only Mary knew if Thomas WAS my grandpa's daddy--o well..still, here I am.

What do we know for sure? about anything?

Still, in that ignorance,I choose to do what you seem to do. I follow Jesus' teachings and stay out of church.

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

humbled

Kate--I am thinking about me in running up against painful reality and yet having a sense of a "Good" beyond the evil parts of life. It is hard to define or name it. It doesn't fit the picture of the god I was taught. I wonder what it is. Earlier in the thread I wondered why, if there isn't a god of love, why we have an immense need for love and value fairness so highly. Others allude to this being an evolved trait, an encoded part of our DNA.

But these are clinical terms that do not translate well to many of the 7 billion+ humans on the planet--If we want to talk to many about god as DNA we are likely to be met with a response similar to "Thanks, but keep your bullshit to yourself."--Yet we on this thread are no longer able to accommodate explanations of human turmoil and transcendence in terms of a talking snake, a great flood.

This thread allows me to hammer away at my cultural idea of God. I can't avoid even the incidental effects of culture since I was bound to be born smack dab in the middle of some culture no matter what--None of us avoid it.

My hope is that this thread doesn't shut down when we hit a critical point. You and cofty are at such a point,imo--I feel that we are finally, after going through 56 pages of draining pus, reaching the site of the injury.

Please let this go on.

7

Just wanted to share something BEAUTIFUL . .

by nicolaou in

there's more to life than arguing about stuff .

.. hilary hahn.

goodnight folks .

humbled

Apog, Yes!!!Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliette is woundingly beautiful.

And yes, much more to life than arguing--or even talking...

78

Can you prove Jesus existed outside of Bible (so called) evidence?

by punkofnice in

i thought i'd done a thread on this before but can't find it.. so.

did jesus actually exist?.

without using the bible i'd like to see obvious proof..

humbled

Phizzy and Nic--I'm pretty pragmatic about Jesus.

If you have time, check out a web page. It's rwandanstories.

There is a choirmaster who tells how he climbed out of his sunday clothes to kill people with a machete. On the other hand a video interview (about 3 min.) tells of a man so good that his killers--They couldn't kill him--they had to find a stranger to do it. Those stories and many others are followed by the practical repentance and practical forgiveness communities(without any mention of religion) have taken up to recover from the gravest of mental and other wounds left by massive slaughter. Wounds of victims and perpetrators.

the accounts illustrate what I mean by pragmatic.

Do I have faith? When I first followed Jesus' teachings I was a conventional believer-- fully indoctrinated by the church. It wasn't until I actually undertook to apply the teachings that I experienced profound effects. Was that faith?

Then I see now there is no proof of his life and actual words and yet I still experience the greatness of the lessons. So I am not a person of faith, am I?

I do not see a reason to throw the baby(Jesus) out with the bath just because I'm "smarter" now.

Phizzy said he can respect my faith. may be there isn't a word for my lack of faith. He has some of the same things going on in his consideration of Jesus. I confess, I eat hot chilis too.

As I say,I am a pragmatist.

edit: there's no more proof of Socrates as there is for Jesus either--Socrates never himself wrote anything either.....

78

Can you prove Jesus existed outside of Bible (so called) evidence?

by punkofnice in

i thought i'd done a thread on this before but can't find it.. so.

did jesus actually exist?.

without using the bible i'd like to see obvious proof..

humbled

The NT Jesus (pre-WT)was a good teacher for me. The RCC had me in my early years and then in my latter 20s I just read the bible.At age 36 was baptised a JW.

I credit Jesus with setting me straight in a life derailed and finally getting me out of the cult. His teachings made me be honest with myself.

I don't care if he was divine or original or even a little delusional. If he was a wine drinking carpenter who loved Mary Magdalene especially-- that's okay,it's fine!

If I can't prove Jesus lived by citing written acounts, my own life experience and that of other foolish people prove the value of the "myth". We have let Jesus "live" by having our lives restored by the message of the gospel--in the various ways we have understood it.

12

A letter from my brother Nathan to my uncle in 1978 when Nathan was at Bethel

by Magwitch in

my uncle recently died and apparently he never threw anything away.

among many things he held onto was a letter that my brother wrote to my uncle in 1978 from bethel.

my brother was in the same hall as howard zenke (a real heavy at bethel) and nathan rode to all the meetings with howard and beana.

humbled

...and very telling that they are afraid to say what they actually do believe.

cowards

78

Can you prove Jesus existed outside of Bible (so called) evidence?

by punkofnice in

i thought i'd done a thread on this before but can't find it.. so.

did jesus actually exist?.

without using the bible i'd like to see obvious proof..

humbled

All we know is that others wrote about there being a Jesus early on.

It means that for undeniable evidence---nothing is certain. I will have to decide it myself.

They didn't keep birth records of the sons of carpenters on microchips or this would be as easy as finding out if you are real, punky.

Jesus may have lived but not-quite-what the Churchscriptures say about him.

If he did live, then we have only fragments to look at--and these are messed up . What I found was the love teachings apart from the cranky theology is great for me.

78

Can you prove Jesus existed outside of Bible (so called) evidence?

by punkofnice in

i thought i'd done a thread on this before but can't find it.. so.

did jesus actually exist?.

without using the bible i'd like to see obvious proof..

humbled

As Julia said, there are at least those three sources. He was a man the Romans killed.

Look up Pliny the Younger's note to Trajan. It asked the emperor what to do with christians.

Pliny describes torturing two slave women who were Christians to find out what the club was about. This is what he learned: They met in the mornings with others, encouraged one another not to lie, steal or commit adultery. They ate a simple meal together. Sang a song to Jesus.

There were other writings, gospels of Jesus. But the "earthier" versions were destoyed as one sect of christianity led the field--they are considered heresies.

26

Proof the anointed aren't being resurrected yet.....

by EndofMysteries in

the society teaches that since around 1919 the anointed who have died and do die, are resurrected as spirit creatures.

the only one to be resurrected as a spirit that is documented in the bible is jesus.

when jesus was resurrected, did he appear to his disciples yet his body was still buried?

humbled

The account of doubting Thomas( holes in hands and side) is thought to have been added to discredit the gospel of thomas that had been circulating--holy wars!

15

Hit or Miss..

by new hope and happiness in

jesus ( sorry) wow...i have been posting here for 8 months!!!

...most of my " new topic" threads seem to miss.... why is it some posters seem to be " celebrities" here and others like me get lost in the shuffle?.

i am sure i will now get knocked down and shot with comments like ....well i guess i got it comming.

humbled

True that log con. sometimes a thing goes out and people stop to see it and go on....

It's a rowdy crowd sometimes--

A thought!I think getting a 'custom' avatar is distinguishing. having one off the rack may be just too common....

But then that's alot of work.......Maybe we could do this instead: you could just get a perm, I'll get a haircut....and if you'd just take off those silly white gloves-

(O, and maybe lose the tail.)

Maeve