Posts by humbled

22

My Lecturer booby-trapped me - Patterns of Authority in Early Christian Communities

by fulltimestudent in

i have a 2500 word essay due next tuesday, so i shall be invoiced until then.

and, i already have been turned upside down.. even though there are set topics for the main essay, it is possible to negotiate for an essay on a subject of personal interest.

i'd been thinking about the development of leadership in the early christian congregation, so i asked my lecturer, if i could write on that.. he asked me for a brief outline of what i was thinking, so i reviewed my early thoughts - that jesus primarily had left no clear instructions (because he was expecting divine intervention and the restoration of the kingdom), but he had trained his disciples in missionary work - which i interpreted to mean that jesus expected his own ministry to continue, to provide the judean people with continued guidance, modelled on what he (jesus) had done.. but as christianity developed (and the expectations of jesus remained unfulfilled) a different model developed and i wanted to explore the model we see developing in the nt (think pauline) and where that model came from and then transformed into the monarchial model with bishops.. .

humbled

Well, FTS,

Did you get your paper in on time? We are hoping you post here the results of your hard work.

wishing you well--

Maeve

72

A "My Book of Bible Stories" tale that I've always hated

by JimmyPage in

jw
friends

i've always hated story #53: "jepthah's promise".

i always felt sorry for the daughter who had to spend the rest of her days at the tabernacle because her father made a numb-nuts promise to god.

who did he think he was, making promises for other people?

humbled

Sorry for writing so incoherently, Crazyguy. This topic always gets me addled-pated.

When I first came on this board I still believed in God--but I had come to believe that it is harder to understand him than the WT Corp would have us believe. In fact, as I tried to reconcile the "Cliff Notes" version in the Book of Bible Stories with the God-of-Love I went down a rabbit hole that made me have to face not just the brothers, my bewildered friends, and the Brooklynn Bible Mafia, but --this was the hardest--myself.

Yes, I did use the story of Jephthah to point out(using the only the reference material available to faithful JWS) that all the arguments against Jephthah killing his daughter were the same reasons that God didn't command the killing of Isaac.

I added another reason to see that God wasn't asking for a killing: The word used by (presumably Abraham) was olah not zebach.

If Jephthah didn't kill his girl ( others too think this didn't happen. Apologetics Press/Jephthah's daughter outlines a non-JW support of this non-blood offering), I asked the elders, "When DID the word olah/burnt offering get a spiritual sensibility. It was nonsense to say that Jephthah was the first to realize ( better than Abraham) what was meant by a burnt offering. I reckoned what really occurred in Genesis 22 was that God presented a new concept us through the story at Genesis 22. The Isaac/ Abraham drama presented a dilemma that had no clear map of faith. There was no adequate word, no adequate definition for the quality of trust/faith (what word?) of that would be described by the dark walk up the mountain.

In fact, as I talked to the brothers, I expressed the idea that we humans--not God-- invent words--and we can only invent them from our own experience and imagination--This dilemma of Abraham was a moment of God trying to break through the blood and gore mindset of faith=death. I submitted that we continued to repeat the story as written in the bible story book then we had failed to see God as a being of light. If we held God to our own bloody ideas even after Jesus tried to persuade us of his generousity then all was lost...

I got handed over to the CO. He hadn't completely read the letter that I had given the elders that outlined my own dilemma of conscience(Which was that I could not stomach the version on God illustrated in pictures and words in our literature of God the SOB and I knew that this put me in a delicate spot as a JW) He wasn't interested in anything but my allegiance to the FaithfullandDiscreetSlave. He asked why I didn't send my query into "Questions from Readers"? I told him that it wasn't a question.

Crazyguy, this may be more than you wanted and yet there was more. nd maybe you really were only saying to me that I was just talking gobble-de-gook and to stop it.

this too is perhaps goofy talk. the parsing of words from Genesis 22 seems ridiculous in the face of my current undertanding of how we humans think, experience, talk---and write of our life experience. And how we fall into a religion instead of our existential reality.

Bible translation is the not even half of the problem. It is nothing.

But I have to say, in honesty, that I am sympathetic with the puzzlement of an old man in the desert searching to understand his purpose in a chaotic world.

Maeve

Edited:

And sympathetic to the son of the old man, too.

How much of Isaac's life was his own perception of reality and how was it threaded through the needle of his father's reality? He might have died for his father's fumbling faith. Willing? convinced? I wonder.

41

How Much Drinking Is Too Much?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i have seen that some say if a man has 3 beers per day or a woman has 2 glasses of wine per day, that they may have .

.

humbled

Sometimes it is too much drinking when the person you live with tells you it is affecting THEM.

The life of the "designated driver" can get pretty dreary.

72

A "My Book of Bible Stories" tale that I've always hated

by JimmyPage in

jw
friends

i've always hated story #53: "jepthah's promise".

i always felt sorry for the daughter who had to spend the rest of her days at the tabernacle because her father made a numb-nuts promise to god.

who did he think he was, making promises for other people?

humbled

Interesting to find this thread.

Approximately 7 years ago I took My Book of Bible Stories in to a meeting with the elders and used the story of Jepthah's daughter to nulify the idea that God actually requested the slaughter of Isaac as a test of Abraham's faith. I asked how was it that Jepthah knew not to slay his daughter if it had not been previously perceived by Abraham that "burnt offering" was a spiritual all-giving instead of a slash-and-burn.

It was clear to me that if God had commanded the slaughter of Isaac, then he stood as a lying S.O.B. and monster according to all the measures that His Words in scripture laid out.

I said I could not promote the story as told in the storybook--neither to children OR adults.

This demand for humanity and sanity made the kind of trouble ya'll are familiar with. I am no longer a JW. No longer expect the Bible to make sense.

99

Leaving the JWs, experiencing Christianity and finding freedom! (But it took awhile)

by im_free in

this is my first post here.. i was raised in "the truth", and am an ex-bethelite who worked in brooklyn for several years back in the 90's.

a few years after i left bethel, i started to become disillusioned after doing research about the society and reading crisis of conscience (i know..i wasn't supposed to do that lol).

i eventually stopped attending meetings and going out in service.

humbled

Welcome.

Once it is clear that the foundation scriptures of the Hebrew scriptures are inaccurate stories or a, at best, allegories--there is nothing on which to hang "Truth". Truth as organized religion has it.

The bible's stories of Jesus have him saying"Just as it was in the days of Noah..." Really, did Jesus subscibe to the Flood of Noah?

Nevertheless, the Jesus teachings have saved me. If I have found rich stories in the bible, still I do not trust it--so I do not fit into a christian church.

I am glad you had the nerve to read CoC while you were still "in". Brave.

52

Are first world countries to blame for the bulk of third world squalor?

by tootired2care in

throughout several past threads various posters have emphatically made the point that countries like great britian, united states, france etc.

basically countries where white people exist, are to blame for the poverty in many other third world nations.

some have even went so far as to suggest that the first world is to blame for all third world conditions.. i often see excuses such as these for why a country refuses to provide clean water, some food and basic sanitation for its people:.

humbled

The thread is concerned with the squalor of the third world.

To clarify something, Simon: does success equal wealth? Does lack of wealth equal squalor?

You said:I think a lot of people are forgetting that a lot of the success and wealth from 1st world countries was NOT based on exploitation but often on ingenuity and hard work.

Individual brilliance ( but based on societies that value science and research) invented steam engines and automated cotton weaving which transformed the society from rather bleak, disease riddled towns eventually to the modern industrialized countries we have today.

Wanting to be clear on the direction of my thoughts, I looked up the word squalor. On dictionary.reference.com the word "squalor" was used in this exemplary sentence : "The history books record the squalor of early industry, the poverty of the industrial workers and their exploitation."

Squalor is defined as "filth and misery".

Industry without doubt brought improved production of goods and wealth to factory owners. It took the cottage industries out of the homes.

The diseased riddled cities were worse off than ever with industrial workers packing into slums. Enlightenment in health and hygiene from the educated extended finally to the poor if only to preserve the health of the well-to-do. (Not saying there were no do-gooders) But no benefits were intended for the common man: sweat shops and wage slavery.

And that has not changed. When possible, the worlds industrialists set up shop abroad where ever they can get the most BANG for their buck. It is a complicated matter, this business of sorting out cause and effect.

There are altruists and there are merchants, there are inventors and there are opportunists. But greed dominates because money is power.

____________________________________________________________________

The topic is thought provoking. I actually read the last few responses to my husband who had no idea that this board treats questions other than how to survive the aftermath of JW-dom.

Goodnight.

7

Sad story

by truthseekeriam in

jw
friends

traverse city alyce morales' sobs hung in a benzie county courtroom as she told a judge that panic gripped her after she secretly gave birth to a daughter in a tent.. .

morales, 19, of cicero, illinois, said she felt sorry every day since july 22, 2013, for what happened next.

she closed her fist and struck herself before hitting her daughter, marie, with a blow that fractured the infant's skull.. "i was in a really bad situation.

humbled

This is mental illness.

It is not reasonable. It is messed up emotions and psychological distortion. It is sickness in that girl's mind and in her whole community.

26

Why isn't the world a frazzle?

by punkofnice in

when i was a jw i had a lot of silly ideas that seemingly explained things i wondered about.

arguments from ignorance or special pleading i suppose.

actually, my conclusions were daft.. one thing i have wondered about and i don't know if anyone else has, is why man hasn't either rendered the earth to a cinder or why there haven't been more nukes go off against nations.

humbled

Incompetence and backroom machinations in government are the result of special interest interference, imo. Money opens the door to that back room.

Big money is a dim North Star to guide the destiny of nations. But it does. Lobbyists and the Citizens United give special interests a heavy hand in U.S. government. Some great exemplars of the money/power complex: the Koch Brothers. These are the best of the corporate breed and they are absolutely involved with government officials and policy making.

They are compelling figures for this discussion since they also make contributions to the arts and other philanthropic causes. Also, they have the libertarian political view that people are capable of running their own lives. But....

How often do they concern themselves with the impact of their business decisions on people's ability to run their own lives? Not at all if business is business.

And are they viewed as immoral hypocrites in their community for this? absurd question! They are competent. They are successful.

The hidden wheeling-dealing of special interest is as old as government. Business vision is not focused on anything but the bottom line. Competence has a hard time surviving in that environment.

22

My Lecturer booby-trapped me - Patterns of Authority in Early Christian Communities

by fulltimestudent in

i have a 2500 word essay due next tuesday, so i shall be invoiced until then.

and, i already have been turned upside down.. even though there are set topics for the main essay, it is possible to negotiate for an essay on a subject of personal interest.

i'd been thinking about the development of leadership in the early christian congregation, so i asked my lecturer, if i could write on that.. he asked me for a brief outline of what i was thinking, so i reviewed my early thoughts - that jesus primarily had left no clear instructions (because he was expecting divine intervention and the restoration of the kingdom), but he had trained his disciples in missionary work - which i interpreted to mean that jesus expected his own ministry to continue, to provide the judean people with continued guidance, modelled on what he (jesus) had done.. but as christianity developed (and the expectations of jesus remained unfulfilled) a different model developed and i wanted to explore the model we see developing in the nt (think pauline) and where that model came from and then transformed into the monarchial model with bishops.. .

humbled

Wednesday morning in the U.S.A.

Six days to lift-off, fulltimestudent.

26

Why isn't the world a frazzle?

by punkofnice in

when i was a jw i had a lot of silly ideas that seemingly explained things i wondered about.

arguments from ignorance or special pleading i suppose.

actually, my conclusions were daft.. one thing i have wondered about and i don't know if anyone else has, is why man hasn't either rendered the earth to a cinder or why there haven't been more nukes go off against nations.

humbled

sorry, double post