erandir

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Posts by erandir

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  22

  YMCA membership

  by erandir in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ok, i know this has been talked about before, but now's a good time to bring this up again.

  my wife (active witness) and i (inactive, haven't attended in over a year) just got memberships to the ymca today.

  it's the only fitness place in town with a swimming pool.

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  erandir

  Thanks, Bumble Bee...I remember that now that I've read it again. Thanks for the reference.

  Thanks, bigmouth, for your experience, too.
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  22

  YMCA membership

  by erandir in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ok, i know this has been talked about before, but now's a good time to bring this up again.

  my wife (active witness) and i (inactive, haven't attended in over a year) just got memberships to the ymca today.

  it's the only fitness place in town with a swimming pool.

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  erandir

  Thanks, guys...

  I personally want everyone to know so I can show my wife how petty they are. That probably wouldn't be the best thing to do right now, though. I'll just let whatever happens happen and not instigate anything myself. We have some real busy-bodies in our hall, so it's only a matter of time, I figure.
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  25

  What makes a person lean on one side rather than the other side?

  by JH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  some people, even if they hear the facts, will still remain jw's.

  you can talk about all the wrongdoings the watchtower did in the past, as well as all the flip flops they made throughout the years, and still, most remain blind to this.. a few, on the other hand, will start to question their faith and put it to test.. what makes a person lean on one side, rather than on the other ?.

  .

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  erandir

  um...maybe the spinal column is misaligned. I had this problem, but the chiropracter fixed me up.

  oh...wait...i didn't read the comments before posting.

  Maybe it has to do with what the witnesses call the "heart condition." I call it personality type...gullible and ignorant vs independent, critical thinker.

  Maybe it's self-esteem issues.

  Who knows. There are many text books on psychology having to do with this kind of thing.
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  22

  YMCA membership

  by erandir in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ok, i know this has been talked about before, but now's a good time to bring this up again.

  my wife (active witness) and i (inactive, haven't attended in over a year) just got memberships to the ymca today.

  it's the only fitness place in town with a swimming pool.

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  erandir

  Ok, I know this has been talked about before, but now's a good time to bring this up again. My wife (active witness) and I (inactive, haven't attended in over a year) just got memberships to the YMCA today. It's the only fitness place in town with a swimming pool. I don't care what anyone thinks, but I warned my wife that witnesses look down on a Y membership as some sort of interfaith thing. It could cause us problems in the future when people from the hall find out that we belong and attend the Y. She didn't seem to think it was a big deal or that anyone would care.

  Can anyone back me up or share any experiences about this?

  Thanks

  Erandir
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  15

  Surprise Question at the 'Shop'

  by bigmouth in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  visiting my sons workplace yesterday and a colleague of his calls me over.

  "tell me what you know about jehovahs witnesses" he says.

  where did that come from i wondered.

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  erandir

  On the subject of depression, I got better after I decided to stop worrying about attending the meetings and focus on getting a good job regardless of the hours. I had quit a good job years before in order to get a job that paid less, was less reliable work, but was a day job...just so I could attend the meetings. It took me years of struggling with making ends meet with this job and of stuggling with depression to realise that I should go back to my good job, work nights, and not worry about the meetings any more. And guess what? It worked. I'm so happy now.

  What does that tell you?
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  122

  Who on this Board would love to get rid of Organized Religion?

  by restrangled in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  imho....it all needs to go.

  its influencing everything in this world every and anywhere.

  from the saudies, to the people in irag, iran and anywhere else our sons will need to be sent.. our current president claims he is influenced along with the former prime minister of england by religious beliefs.. there is the huge evangelical influence that got bush and the mess he made who put them in to begin with.. we have the jw's causing absolute havic in anyone's lives connected with this stupidity.. it goes on and on and on.

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  erandir

  I would love it if one day I woke up and all organized religion was gone. That would be wonderful. What a world that would be!
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  252

  are we inactive or what?

  by inactive? in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i would like someone to discuss some issues i have.

  i understand all are welcome here, so i am sure some elders or former elders could help me.

  i was a pioneer for 7 years, before that i was a regular auxiliarry pioneer for 3 years, i have been a witness for 17 years.

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  erandir
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  7

  When did the WT stop teaching the idea of a rapture?

  by cabasilas in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  reading old stuff from russell's day, you can see the bible students were expecting they'd all be raptured in 1878 and many were hoping for it in 1881. also, 1914 and 1918 were other times they were expecting it.

  when did they stop believing that the anointed would be translated to heaven?

  i'm assuming it was during rutherford's presidency, but wonder if anyone knows when that belief was changed?

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  erandir

  Here's the full excerpt on Rapture from the Twisting the Scriptures at the Door, but I Forgot Why So I'll Look It Up in This Resource Reasoning from the Scriptures book.

  Rapture

  Definition:

  The belief that faithful Christians will be bodily caught up from the earth, suddenly taken out of the world, to be united with the Lord "in the air." The word "rapture" is understood by some persons, but not by all, to be the meaning of 1 Thessalonians 4:17. The word "rapture" does not occur in the inspired Scriptures.

  When

  theapostlePaulsaidthatChristianswouldbe"caughtup"tobewiththeLord,whatsubjectwasbeingdiscussed?

  1 Thess. 4:13-18, RS: "We would not have you ignorant, brethren, concerning those who are asleep ["those who sleep in death," NE; "those who have died," TEV,JB], that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words." (Evidently some members of the Christian congregation in Thessalonica had died. Paul encouraged the survivors to comfort one another with the resurrectionhope. He reminded them that Jesus was resurrected after his death; so, too, at the coming of the Lord, those faithful Christians among them who had died would be raised to be with Christ.)

  Who

  aretheonesthatwillbe‘caughtupintheclouds,’asstatedat1 Thessalonians4:17?

  Verse 15 explains that they are faithful ones "who are left until the coming of the Lord," that is, they are still living at the time of Christ’s coming. Will they ever die? According to Romans 6:3-5 and 1 Corinthians 15:35, 36, 44 (quoted on pages 314, 315), they must die before they can gain heavenly life. But there is no need for them to remain in the death state awaiting Christ’s return. They will instantly be "caught up," "in the twinkling of an eye," to be with the Lord.—1 Cor. 15:51, 52, RS; also Revelation 14:13.

  Will

  ChristappearvisiblyonacloudandthentakeawayfaithfulChristiansintotheheavenswhiletheworldlookson?

  Did

  Jesussaywhethertheworldwouldseehimagainwiththeirphysicaleyes?

  John 14:19, RS: "Yet a little while, and theworldwillseemenomore, but you [his faithful disciples] will see me; because I live, you will live also." (Italics added.) (Compare 1 Timothy 6:16.)

  What

  isthemeaningoftheLord’s‘descendingfromheaven’?

  Could the Lord "descend from heaven," as stated at 1 Thessalonians 4:16, without being visible to physical eyes? In the days of ancient Sodom and Gomorrah, Jehovah said that he was going to "go down to see" what the people were doing. (Gen. 18:21, RS) But when Jehovah made that inspection, no human saw him, although they did see the angelic representatives that he sent. (John 1:18) Similarly, without having to return in the flesh, Jesus could turn his attention to his faithful followers on earth to reward them.

  In

  whatsense,then,willhumans"see"theLord"cominginacloud"?

  Jesus foretold: "Then they will see the Son of man [Jesus Christ] coming in a cloud with power and great glory." (Luke 21:27, RS) In no way does this statement or similar ones in other texts contradict what Jesus said as recorded at John 14:19. Consider: At Mount Sinai, what occurred when God ‘came to the people inathickcloud,’ as stated at Exodus 19:9? (RS) God was invisibly present; the people of Israel saw visible evidence of his presence, but none of them actually saw God with their eyes. So, too, when Jesus said that he would come "in a cloud," he must have meant that he would be invisible to human eyes but that humans would be aware of his presence. They would "see" him with their mental eyes, discerning the fact that he was present. (For further comments, see the main heading "Return of Christ.")

  Is

  itpossibleforChristianstobetakentoheavenwiththeirphysicalbodies?

  1 Cor. 15:50, RS: "I tell you this, brethren: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable."

  Does

  theexperienceoftheprophetElijahcontradictthis? Not at all. It must be understood in the light of Jesus’ clear statement centuries later: "No one has ascended into heaven but he who descended from heaven, the Son of man." (John 3:13, RS) Although Elijah was seen as he "went up by a whirlwind into heaven," this does not mean that he went into the spirit realm. Why not? Because he is later reported as sending a letter of reproof to the king of Judah. (2 Ki. 2:11, RS; 2 Chron. 21:1, 12-15) Before humans invented airplanes, Jehovah there used his own means (a fiery chariot and a whirlwind) to lift Elijah off the ground into the heaven where the birds fly and to transport him to another place.—Compare Genesis 1:6-8, 20.

  Will

  faithfulChristiansperhapsbetakentoheavensecretly,simplydisappearingfromtheearthwithoutdying?

  Rom. 6:3-5, RS: "Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? . . . For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his." (What occurred in the case of Jesus set the pattern. His disciples as well as others knew he had died. He was not restored to heavenly life until after his death and resurrection.)

  1 Cor. 15:35, 36, 44, RS: "Some one will ask, ‘How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?’ You foolish man! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. It is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body." (So death comes before one receives that spiritual body, does it not?)

  Will

  allfaithfulChristiansbetakenmiraculouslyfromtheearthbytheLordbeforethegreattribulation?

  Matt. 24:21, 22: "Then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short." (This does not say that "the chosen ones" will all have been taken to heaven before the great tribulation, does it? Rather, it holds out the prospect to them, along with associates in the flesh, of surviving that great tribulation on earth.)

  Rev. 7:9, 10, 14, RS: "After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no man could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, ‘Salvation belongs to our God who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb!’ . . . ‘These are they who have come out of the great tribulation.’" (To "come out" of something a person must gointo it or bein it. So this great multitude must be persons who actually experience the great tribulation and come out of it as survivors.) (Regarding their being on earth, see pages 167, 168.)

  What

  protectionwilltherebefortrueChristiansduringthegreattribulation?

  Rom. 10:13, RS: "Every one who calls upon the name of the Lord ["Jehovah," NW] will be saved."

  Zeph. 2:3, RS: "Seek the LORD ["Jehovah," NW,AS,Yg,By], all you humble of the land, who do his commands; seek righteousness, seek humility; perhaps you may be hidden on the day of the wrath of the LORD." (Also Isaiah 26:20)

  Will

  alltrueChristiansperhapsbetakentoheavenafterthegreattribulation?

  Matt. 5:5, RS: "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth."

  Ps. 37:29, RS: "The righteous shall possess the land ["earth," Ro,NW], and dwell upon it for ever." (Also verses 10, 11, 34)

  1 Cor. 15:50, RS: "Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God."

  See also the main heading "Heaven."

  Why

  aresomeChristianstakentoheaventobewithChrist?

  Rev. 20:6, RS: "They shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with him a thousand years." (Since they are to reign with Christ, there must be people over whom they reign. Who are these? See Matthew 5:5 and Psalm 37:29.)

  See also the main heading "Born Again."

  Will

  thosewhogotoheavenbereturnedlatertotheearthtoliveforeverhereinParadise?

  Prov. 2:21, RS: "The upright will inhabit the land ["dwell on earth," NE], and men of integrity will remain in it." (Notice that the scripture does not say that such upright people will return to the earth but that they will remain there.)

  1 Thess. 4:17, RS: "And so we [Christians caught away to heaven] shall always be with the Lord."

  If

  SomeoneSays—

  ‘Do

  youbelieveintherapture?’

  You

  mightreply: ‘I find that not everyone has the same idea as to what the rapture means. May I ask what your thoughts are about it? . . . On any matter, it is beneficial to compare our thoughts with what the Bible itself says. (Use the portions of the material above that are applicable.)’

  Or

  youcouldsay: ‘The rapture has been explained to me as an escape plan for Christians. Many feel that this is the way they will escape the coming great tribulation. Is that how you feel?’ Thenperhapsadd: (1) ‘We certainly want God’s protection at that time, and I find to be very encouraging some texts that show how we can benefit from it. (Zeph. 2:3)’ (2) ‘Interestingly, the Bible shows that God will safeguard some faithful ones right here on earth. (Prov. 2:21, 22) That is in harmony with God’s purpose when he first created Adam and put him in Paradise, is it not?’

  Another

  possibility: ‘By the rapture you mean that Christians living at the end of the system of things are to be taken to heaven, is that not right? . . . Have you wondered what they will do when they get to heaven? . . . Notice what Revelation 20:6 (and 5:9, 10) says. . . . But over whom will they rule? (Ps. 37:10, 11, 29)’
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  9

  Why those still in are always still questioned by those long gone!

  by 5thGeneration in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have a problem you may all be able explain to me.. why do so many posters argue posts made by people still active in the 'truth' who still know exactly what's happening right now?.

  it makes no sense.. those of us that are still attending, some in high positions, are often times challenged as to our information.. i had a big fight a long while way back about the society banning watchtower symbols on khs (which they did).

  i read the official wt letter but some posters jumped on me that it was not true.

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  erandir

  yeah, but that just means your congregation is too cheap to have the brick work changed
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  20

  Interesting old article from Time magazine re:1975

  by marmot in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  don't know if this has ever been discussed on here.

  http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,901074-1,00.html .

  july 18, 1969 .

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  erandir

  Neat...when a secular source as reputable as Time writes an article like this, it is very hard to ignore. So for all those witnesses out there denying the 1975 expectation, here's another scrap of evidence! Thanks, marmot!