So I havnt posted in a while but i'm a regular lurker. I'm 19 years old and live at home with the parentals. I just admitted to them that i've been secretly seeing a "worldly" girl for about a year. I've known her for three. With an elder father and a very conservative JW household you can imagine the commotion this has caused. Granted i did lie to them and i take full responsibility for that. However now i'm facing a larger issue of where my allegiances lie. I'm being accused of loving the "world" more than i love my family. They keep telling me that i'm turning my back on god and backstabbing all my brothers and sisters. Granted i know the truth about the truth, but still i have a lot of loved ones in the org that i am afraid of losing. Tomorrow night I got a backroom meeting with two elders (thank god its not three), I don't know where that'll go. I already got the grilling from my father. "Have you touched her on her breasts or butt? Have you committed porneia? Are you guilty of fornication?...." Am i being selfish for cultivating this relationship? I apologize but my thoughts are a bit scattered at the moment so this thread may be a little jumbled but i'm under a lot of stress and am just looking for some support as i feel like my whole world is about to be turned upside down. I've been trying so hard to keep the peace and stay out of suspicion and create the least amount of trouble as possible but i feel like my D-day or perhaps DF-day is rapidly approaching and at an inopportune time as well. I just lost my job and I'm not in the position to move out. I also feel a tremendous amount of guilt for hurting my mother. I love her immensely but my decisions inevitably only cause pain. And if she knew how i felt about the "truth" she would be devastated. Her little boy who she had so much hope for practically damned to destruction, in line for Jehovahs wrath. My father also keeps repeating how ashamed of me he is. Although he's never really been proud of me. My brother is a clean, chaste, ministerial servant poster boy with a happy dubb-marriage and a sucessful job with aspirations of bethel. And i feel like i'm a failure in there eyes in comparison. My lack of faith and disillusionment in the JW's only adds to that puts me in a position where i don't see myself ever being accepted by them and i know i'll eventually lose them and everyone else i care for. I apologize for the Juvenile tone of all this. Any advice from folks who have been in my shoes or similar situations would be appreciated.
thebiggestlie
JoinedPosts by thebiggestlie
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Got some troubles....
by thebiggestlie inso i havnt posted in a while but i'm a regular lurker.
i'm 19 years old and live at home with the parentals.
i just admitted to them that i've been secretly seeing a "worldly" girl for about a year.
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Paging : Central Congregation, Sprinfield Ohio
by Happy_Apostate inany other 'liberated' folks out there from the area covered by central / east / west congregation in springfield ohio ?.
just lookin for familiar faces..
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thebiggestlie
greetings from east hamilton ohio congo
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27
need some help with letter.... this is what i got so far....help
by thebiggestlie indear mom and dad,
so you want to here from me and to know how i really feel on certain issues which is understandable.
i mentioned before that i always felt like the black sheep, like something was wrong with me.
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thebiggestlie
final draft...im leaving in the remaining typos and whatnot just for the heck of it.
Dear Mom and Dad,
So you want to hear from me and to know how i really feel on certain issues which is understandable. I know how confusing I can be at times ....well most of the time, but i want to first tell you how much I love you. I would lay down my life for you. Your my parents! You raised me and always wanted the best for me. I grew up with you two playing games and reading stories and all of the valuable and essential childhood activities. I look back through my childhood (even though i am still a child in more ways than just one) with fond memories and a heart full of love and appreciation. I wish I could openly express my feelings on such things and let you know how i really feel without fear of sounding cheesy or whatever although I suppose thats just a character flaw of myself that i must improve on, but I'm taking this moment to express to you my love and admiration and to thank you for being there for me all these years. I have nothing short of unconditional love for the both of you and can only hope to have the same from you.
As you know, these last few years have proved to be rough for me. I've always felt like the black sheep in the family as well in the congregation. I've always felt like many aspects of me have been off of center. I have lived most of my life in constant worry, attempting to achieve some kind of normality, to find my groove, my niche as it where in this muddled thing called life. Even among witnesses of my own age I've always felt completely disconnected even from a young age. I suppose this is a fairly normal feeling for a young person as it is often written about both in the pages of the watchtower and many other secular and religious sources. But nonetheless I've tried desperately to find something to cling to feel like i belong.
This brings me to the first and probably the major topic I want to talk about. That is the issue of being in “the truth” or being one of Jehovah's Witnesses. Ever since I was a baby I was taught that i didn't have to search for any answers to the entire universe because they were all conveniently laid out in front of me and that i should respect my spiritual heritage. And I must say I do respect my heritage so don't get me wrong but listen to what I'm trying to say. As i was saying, since i was a young child I have been constantly told that Jehovah's Witnesses hold the only truth and that everything else in the world is a product of Satan in a desperate attempt to mislead as many people as he can in these “critical times” and the last days. I was thoroughly indoctrinated.
I know you will say that you where only doing your Christian responsibility by “bringing me up in the way of Jehovah.” and i wholeheartedly respect that. I know you believe completely in your heart that your doing the best for me. I know how much you love me and i love you just as much. You have no idea how much pain I AM IN writing this to you. Can't you see that? Don't you know how much i love you? And don't you see how much pain this entire situation is causing?
But not to get sidetracked off of the topic at hand i wish to elaborate on what i was saying. We as human beings have free will. We have the opportunity to look at the world around us, take in knowledge, analyze this info and then act upon it in whatever way we feel works best. Well, in a perfect scenario anyways this is true but i must say i have NEVER ONCE felt as if i had the freedom to think, choose, or decide on any issue on my life. I was just taught “this is how it is, if you don't believe it then you'll be hurting yourself, your family your friends, and not to mention Jehovah! And you don't want to be one of those that will be destroyed in Armageddon do you?” Do you know how much pressure that is on a young child, especially one that always felt inadequate and different? And to make it even more pressing i was completely separated form the rest of the world. If you put someone in an environment where they have no contact with the outside world and everything outside of the safe, neat little barriers is demonized and evil and soon to be destroyed, what is that person supposed to think?
I used to have nightmares of Armageddon as a child. The idea of it being just around the corner and “it could even be tomorrow” always lingered on my mind. I was terrified of the the idea of being turned into birdseed at the day of Jehovah's judgment. The pictures in the magazines of men women and children in pure terror with fire raining from the sky were quite effective in scaring god into me in a similar way that I imagine hell scares faith into christians. But then on the other hand theres paradise. I can remember fondly looking into the pages of “My Book of Bible Stories” and wondering what i would name my pet lion and how the giant grapes would taste. And then there the resurrection, being able to see grandma again. These are all strong emotional pulls and they still pluck at my heartstrings. I SO BADLY WISH that they were true but i can convince myself rationally that they are anything more than just a pipe dream, a fairy tale thousands of years in the making.
I mentioned before that i always felt like the black sheep, like something was wrong with me. Well if you where to ask me if i believed in God at any age up until about 14 i would have probably said yes because any other option seemed ridiculous and could only originate from the devil, a load of humbug issued out by evil scientist and philosophers who only want depravity and sin to fill the earth. As a witness it really is is an “us vs. the world” mentality where every single religious, scientific. And political organization is seen as being a devious tool of the devil to ensnare the world. This is what i was taught so that is what i believed, but even though i believed i always had the lingering feeling as if something was not quite right. I almost felt like every time i even considered going near the curtain i was told to “pay no attention” to the man hiding behind it. I ALWAYS felt empty even though i was told that “the truth” was the only way to ever feel full. I always felt like there must be something wrong with me or that the Devil was picking on me in particular.
I feel almost for a lack of a better term “emotionally blackmailed”. It hurts me so bad to see you cry and hear you say things such as “I'm just worried about you and what your going to do. You know you'll hurt so many people not only your parents?”. I have always felt like i only had one option that you would ever approve of in life and I've always felt like my freewill was severely stunted. I could never think about anything, and in fact thinking was seen as have a spirit of independence and closely linked to the kind of thinking that the devil used on Eve in the garden. Thinking and questioning are completely demonized in the purest sense. Would you even be a JW yourself if it weren't for you thinking at one point in your life “is it really so that the catholic faith is the only true faith in the universe?”
You say “Nicholas you know in your heart that its the truth” and within the organization itself the term “the truth” is used so liberally and with such audacity almost as if it is called such often enough it makes it “true-er”. Everyday i feel like a hypocrite. I feel like i am lying to the entire world. This feeling has been building up inside of me for many years. I realize ive made some genuinely stupid and for the most part typically teenage type mistakes in my life and i apologize for lying on many occasions. But do you realise why i have felt the need to lie and hide how i really feel? Do you realise the tremendous amount of pressure weighing down on me and the bench mark that is way to high for me to ever reach. I have been lying to myself for so long and i can hardly imagine being a hypocrite for my entire life.
The world is not Black and White despite what some may think. IT is a diverse and interesting place full of subtle shades. It doesnt boil down to a concept of good vs. evil or us vs. them. As i have come to the crossroads of adulthood i am begininning to see just how enriched and complex the world is and that many of the things that i held as “absolutes” as a child were merely just another shade of the infinitely complex spectrum of universal color.
Why should i be afraid of my thoughts? When i was fifteen and i had those issues with severe depression and cutting it was not because of some girl as you suspected and as i let on. I used her as a lark, no as a scapegoat to hide the real issues. You can point fingers and condemn my thoughts and my doubts and bring up as many scriptures as you like but i know for a fact that my thoughts did not originate with any other source. I was having a true “existential meltdown” debating the nature of the universe, the truthfulness of the society, and the meaning of life. When someone as sheltered as a JW kid begins to look into the big issues in life it is easy to get overwhelmed especially when all alternatives have been painted black and outlawed. Feeling trapped, lonely, heartsick, and the need for approval nearly killed me quite literally. I must say i still face the same issues but as i grow older i feel a little stronger and less self destructive but on the inside i still feel like a cold, lonely child just wanting to be loved. I want you to love me and theres this war raging inside of me saying that i can either love you and be a hypocrite and force-feed myself with something i cant swallow or the other option which im not sure entirely where it would lead me.
My baptism, i remember the day quite vividly and i remember feeling very insecure on that day. I wondered to myself if i was really doing the right thing because at this point my lingering doubts were already grown in to creatures of immense size. But for reasons mentioned above, that is, Wanting to fit in, pressure and love of family, and the fear of being destroyed in the event that this whole idea actually turned out to be true, i decided to go ahead and go for it, not that i had much of a choice seeing that it was drilled into me since a very very young age that baptism was something that should be highly desired and one of the ultimate goals in life. It seemed to me to almost be sacred, like a position that i could almost brag about. Do you remember when Matthew got baptized and how jealous i was of him? “But mom! Why cant i get baptized???” I didnt even know what the word fully entailed. Even at fourteen when i got dipped i still didnt fully grasp the immensity of the concept. It has always disturbed me to hear of reports of 7 year olds getting baptized at some assembly. Really, can a child realy make such a decision of such magnitude at that young of an age. According to the bible even JESUS didn't get baptized until he was 30 years of age. I just look back at my baptism and see that it was for all the wrong reasons.
I'm not going to debate on philosophical, doctrinal, or scientific issues nor am I going to make a laundry list of things i take issue with, but i am going to ask you this. You say that i must know its “the truth in my heart” but i in fact will tell you that my heart does not “know” this. I feel like a liar and a hypocrite. I feel cursed for being different and i do wish i could believe but i hardly see how that is possible, because every attempt to acquire a level of faith so far has inevitably failed. Is disbelief really something i should feel guilty about? What do you suppose i should do? I know that you love me unconditionally just as i love you unconditionally. I hate writing any of this and by the way this is in no way a letter of goodbye or anything. I have held back some of my thoughts on certain issues to keep this dignified. Take this as merely a jumbled portrait of my thought because you so eagerly want to hear them and i regrettably must share them with you. I just hope you can understand even a fraction of how i feel.
Your son,
Nicholas
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need some help with letter.... this is what i got so far....help
by thebiggestlie indear mom and dad,
so you want to here from me and to know how i really feel on certain issues which is understandable.
i mentioned before that i always felt like the black sheep, like something was wrong with me.
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thebiggestlie
i want to explain the reason for this letter in the first place. Everything is coming to a head. if you read my last thread you know of the "getting caught smoking" issue and tonight at the TMS meeting the sister who "caught me" told me shed give me until sunday to "confess" if i was truly guitly. But she'll be going to the elders if not. And i know i can lie my way out of anything or at least use untruths but seriously dont want to do that. I've lied far to much in my life thus far. My mother asked me pointblank today if i was going to leave the "truth" and i couldnt answer and walked away in a tizzy. SHe was left crying and i hardly could confort her. SHe gave me the old "you'll be hurting everyone" speach which hurt deeply...so thats where i am and i need to communicate despite where this may take me. Im ready to face whatever comes my way.
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need some help with letter.... this is what i got so far....help
by thebiggestlie indear mom and dad,
so you want to here from me and to know how i really feel on certain issues which is understandable.
i mentioned before that i always felt like the black sheep, like something was wrong with me.
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thebiggestlie
f*** it im in no mood to fix all that...but could someone maybe link me ot some letters to parents to help me sort out my thoughts.. i have to much on my brain to make any sort of logical sense in written from. My attepmts so far have been less than stellar
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need some help with letter.... this is what i got so far....help
by thebiggestlie indear mom and dad,
so you want to here from me and to know how i really feel on certain issues which is understandable.
i mentioned before that i always felt like the black sheep, like something was wrong with me.
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thebiggestlie
argh formatting....hold on...
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27
need some help with letter.... this is what i got so far....help
by thebiggestlie indear mom and dad,
so you want to here from me and to know how i really feel on certain issues which is understandable.
i mentioned before that i always felt like the black sheep, like something was wrong with me.
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thebiggestlie
Dear Mom and Dad, So you want to here from me and to know how i really feel on certain issues which is understandable. I know how confusing i can be at times ....well most of the time, but i want to first tell you how much i love you. I would lay down my life for you. Your my parents! You raised me and always wanted the best for me. I grew up with you too playing games and reading stories and all of the valuable and essential childhood activities. I still look back on my childhood (even though i am still a child in more ways than just one) with fond memories and a heart full of love and appreciation. I wish i could openly express my feelings on such things and let you know how i really feel without fear of sounding cheesy or whatever although i suppose thats just a character flaw of myself that i must improve on, but I'm taking this moment to express to you my love and admiration and to thank you for being there for me all these years. I have nothing short of unconditional love for the both of you and can only hope to have the same from you. As you know these teenage years have proved to be rough for me. I've always felt like the black sheep in the family as well in the congregation. I've always felt like every last aspect of me has been off of center. I lived most of my life in constant worry, attempting to achieve some kind of normality, to find my groove, my niche as it where in this meddled thing called life. Even among witnesses of my own age I've always felt completely disconnected even from a young age. I suppose this is a fairly normal feeling for a young person as it is often written about both in the pages of the watchtower and many other secular and religious sources. But nonetheless I've tried desperately to find something to cling to feel like i belong. This brings me to the first and probably the major topic i want to talk about. That is the issue of being in “the truth” or being one of Jehovah's Witnesses. Ever since i was a baby i was taught that i didn't have to search for any answers to the entire universe because they were all conveniently laid out in front of me and that i should respect my spiritual heritage. And I must say i do respect my heritage so donut get me wrong but listen to what I'm trying to say. As i was saying, since i was a young child I have been constantly told that Jehovah's Witnesses hold the only truth and that everything else in the world is a product of Satan in a desperate attempt to mislead as many people as he can in these “critical times” and the last days. I was thoroughly indoctrinated. I know you will say that you where only doing your Christian responsibility by “bringing me up in the way of Jehovah.” and i wholeheartedly respect that. I know you believe wholeheartedly in your heart that your doing the best for me. I know how much you love me and i love you just as much. You have no idea how much pain I AM IN writing this to you. Can't you see that? Don't you know how much i love you? And don't you see how much pain this entire situation is causing? But not to get sidetracked off of the topic at hand i wish to elaborate on what i was saying. We as human beings have free will. We have the opportunity to look at the world around us, take in knowledge, analyze this info and then act upon it in whatever way we feel works best. Well, in a perfect scenario anyways this is true but i must say i have NEVER ONCE felt as if i had the freedom to think, choose, or decide on any issue on my life. I was just taught “this is how it is, if you don't believe it then you'll be hurting yourself, your family your friends, and not to mention Jehovah! And you don't want to be one of those that will be destroyed in Armageddon do you?” Do you know how much pressure that is on a young child, especially one that always felt inadequate and different? And to make it even more pressing i was completely separated form the rest of the world. If you put someone in an environment where they have no contact with the outside world and everything outside of the safe, neat little barriers is demonized and evil and soon to be destroyed, what is that person supposed to think? I used to have nightmares of Armageddon as a child. The idea of it being just around the corner and “it could even be tomorrow” always lingered on my mind. I was terrified of the the idea of being turned into birdseed at the day of Jehovah's judgment. The pictures in the magazines of men women and children in pure terror with fire raining from the sky were quite effective in scaring god into me. But then on the other hand theres paradise. I can remember fondly looking into the pages of “My Book of Bible Stories” and wondering what i would name my pet lion and how the giant grapes would taste. And then there the resurrection, being able to see grandma again. These are all strong emotional pulls and they still pluck at my heartstrings. I SO BADLY WISH that they were true but i can convince myself rationally that they are anymore than just a pipe dream, a fairy tale thousands of years in the making. I mentioned before that i always felt like the black sheep, like something was wrong with me. Well if you where to ask me if i believed in God at any age up until about 14 i would have probably said yes because any other option seemed ridiculous and could only originate from the devil, a load of humbug issued out by evil scientist and philosophers who only want depravity and sin to fill the earth. As a witness it really is is an “us vs. the world” mentality where every single religious, scientific. And political organization is seen as being a devious tool of the devil to ensnare the world. This is what i was taught so that is what i believed, but even though i believed i always had the lingering feeling as if something was not quite right. I almost felt like every time i even considered going near the curtain i was told to “pay not attention” to the man hiding behind it. I ALWAYS felt empty even though i was told that “the truth” was the only way to ever feel full. I always felt like there must be something wrong with me or that the Devil was picking on me in particular. I feel almost for a lack of a better term “emotionally blackmailed”. It hurts me so bad to see you cry and hear you say things such as “I'm just worried about you and what your going to do. You know you'll hurt so many people not only your parents?”. I have always felt like i only had one option that you would ever approve of in life and I've always felt like my freewill was severely stunted. I could never think about anything, and in fact thinking was seen as have a spirit of independence and closely linked to the kind of thinking that the devil used on Eve in the garden. Thinking and questioning are completely demonized in the purest sense. Would you even be a JW yourself if it weren't for you thinking at one point in your life “is it really so that the catholic faith is the only true faith in the universe?” You say “Nicholas you know in your heart that its the truth” and within the organization itself the term “the truth” is used so liberally and with such audacity almost as if it is called such often enough it makes it “true-er”. Everyday i feel like a hypocrite. I feel like i am lying to the entire world. This feeling has been building up inside of me for many years. I realize ive made some genuinely stupid and for the most part typically teenage type mistakes in my life and i apologize for lying on many occasions. But do you realise why i have felt the need to lie and hide how i really feel? Do you realise the tremendous amount of pressure weighing down on me and the bench mark that is way to high for me to ever reach. I have been lying to myself for so long and i can hardly imagine being a hypocrite for my entire life. The world is not Black and White despite what some may think. IT is a diverse and interesting place full of subtle shades. It doesnt boil down to a concept of good vs. evil or us vs. them. As i have come to the crossroads of adulthood i am begininning to see just how enriched and complex the world is and that many of the things that i held as “absolutes” as a child were merely just another shade of the infinitely complex spectrum of universal color My baptism, i remember the day quite vividly and i remember feeling very insecure on that day. I wondered to myself if i was really doing the right thing because at this point my lingering doubts were already grown in to creatures of immense size. But for reasons mentioned above, I.E. Wanting to fit in, pressure and love of family, and the fear of being destroyed in the event that this whole idea actually turned out to be true, i decided to go ahead and go for it, not that i had much of a choice seeing that it was drilled into me since a very very young age that baptism was something that should be highly desired and one of the ultimate goals in life. It seemed to me to almost be sacred, like a position that i could almost brag about. DO you remember when matthew got baptised and how jealous i was of him? “But mom! Why cant i get baptised???” I didnt even know what the word fully entailed. Even at fourteen when i got dipped i still didnt fully grasp the immensity of the concept. It has always disturbed me to hear of reports of 7 year olds getting baptised at some assembly. Really, can a child realy make such a decision of such magnitude at that young of an age. According to the bible even JESUS didn't get baptized until he was 30 years of age.
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uh oh
by thebiggestlie inwell this is kind of funny.
and i suppose jws including my parents with my dad being an elder, will find that this is the result of angelic direction or whatever .
yesterday i was outside my place of employement and lit up a cigarette.
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thebiggestlie
perhaps i should man-up (not to use anymore stereotypicaly masculine phrases) and admit to what ive done as well as my disbeluef in the org. I know how bad that sort of scenerio could play out. Keep in mind though that the elder that would be confronting me is the accusers father which makes the situation a little worse in mh opinion brcasue i fear a level of favoritism. Oh snd to answer some of your questions, i am baptised, i just graduated from high school and currently am working at panera bread but just got an offer for a decent paying job at a catalog call center. I have many friendson the outside who i am very close to and if push turns to shove they would be willing to room with me. Currently i have a friemd who is looking for a roommate after getting kicked out of his own household for similar reasons (his family is u;tra ultra conservative southern baptist and when they found his pipe he got the boot) but i hope i dont give the wrong impression to you all. After abandonning the ideology of the witnesses i havnt complete;y went all out indulging in every JW no-no, sin and vice but i have experimented a little.
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uh oh
by thebiggestlie inwell this is kind of funny.
and i suppose jws including my parents with my dad being an elder, will find that this is the result of angelic direction or whatever .
yesterday i was outside my place of employement and lit up a cigarette.
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thebiggestlie
what really gets me is that i was caught for this lol...oh my goodness id love to see the look on the elders faces if i "confessed" to all of my sins....
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uh oh
by thebiggestlie inwell this is kind of funny.
and i suppose jws including my parents with my dad being an elder, will find that this is the result of angelic direction or whatever .
yesterday i was outside my place of employement and lit up a cigarette.
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thebiggestlie
hey now i still want to remain dignified with this. I dont want to stoop down to there level and further prove to them that apostates are from the debbil. but regardless id love to curse them all to hell :D or at least let them have a piece of my mind and feel the pain that i feel as a result of the org.