nelim

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Posts by nelim

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  7

  Who's will is it?

  by freemindfade in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in our super cappy fallacious public talk today.

  i kept hearing "we do jehovahs will" "do jehovahs will" "not our will...jehovahs" there was a lot of crap in the talk to be irritated by.

  but this got me thinking.... if you are required under penalty of death!

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  nelim

  Good point. Without trying to sound like a nitpicker; in general... Yes, you can have free will when you are able to choose to do someone's will (wishes). But it's not free will anymore when it turns into a no-choice (fear of losing family+friends for example). So.... another case of misleading argumentation from the WTS.
  
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  8

  Was the Economic Collapse of 2008 and the obvious Money Grab by the Organization a Coincidence?

  by My Name is of No Consequence in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  let me start off by saying that the org has always been trying to get money.

  but is it a coincidence that they have been so in-your-face about it since 2008?

  in 2008, most of the world experienced an economic drop-off that it has not witnessed since the 1930s and is still struggling to recover from..

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  nelim

  I'm not sure whether all of the changes are necessarily related to money. Maybe some of the older GB members died and a "new generation" have a slightly different vision? I mean the FDS = GB thing, the prominent JW website and logo, the TV broadcast stream, dropping the anti-types etc; they seem to want to attract more attention to themselves. Perhaps without the downturn this also would have happened? To me it points more towards trying to make JWs proud of themselves and of the org... so that they won't leave as quickly.
  
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  26

  I want serious answers from WT leaders, possible?

  by Powermetal4ever in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what would happen if i would write a physical letter to, for example, the branch office.

  and ask questions about scandals like the ngo thing and other stuff?

  or ask questions about wtbs economy, or ask for a annual report, which is something i would really like to read.

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  nelim

  Tornintwo, from other experiences what usually happens is you get the trick question: do you believe the GB is guided by Holy Spirit? If you say no, then they ask you to put that in writing, and if you do, that counts as disassociation. If you don't put it in writing, they will disfellowship you (if you've spoken about your doubts to others; that's "causing division"). If you say yes you believe, then you have to make do with whatever explanation is in the Watchtower or Insight book etc. You can try to circumvent the question, but then so will they to circumvent yours.
  
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  9

  Recording that would blow up viral!

  by aintenoughwiskey in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was wondering if anyone had an audio recording of a woman, preferably a minor being asked the intimate details of a fornication jc.

  that would hit the fan hard.

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  nelim

  That would be huge indeed! If they wake up before, then either they won't speak to the elders, or the topic of the JC would be apostasy instead of whatever intimate matter.
  

  Although the "loving elder" recording on jwstruggle's youtube proves there are also women who do record their conversation. So there might be hope ;-)
  
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  Norman v Watchtower Bible And Tract Society Of Canada

  by Bangalore in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  norman v watchtower bible and tract society of canada.. http://www.pemselfoundation.org/content/norman-v-watchtower-bible-and-tract-society-canada.

  "the law of charity is a moving subject" lord wilberforce.

  search form.

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  nelim

  Why all the talk about whether those conditional donations were testamentary or not, while the conclusion is that that arrangement clearly stipulated that WTS gets all the money upon death?

  And what happened to the initial/first "no-interest loan"?
  

  The defendant (WTS) might have been "very clear" in its correspondance, but who knows how the Normans understood things? And what did the elders tell them? People usually tend to listen to an advisor, instead of reading the paperwork themselves... E.g. why did Mr. Norman refer to them as conditional loans if he understood it to be a donation when he would die? And why was the second loan called a "no-interest demand loan" when it was "understood" to be a conditional donation? Questions...
  
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  22

  Kingdom Halls for sale - Australia

  by no-zombie in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  this appeared on the abc news website this morning.. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-09/sale-of-jehovah-witnesses-halls-an-expansion-plan/6533544.

  and here are the halls.http://www.commercialview.com.au/211-yorktown-road-craigmore-sa/commercial-for-sale-details-8894836 http://www.commercialview.com.au/8-james-street-crafers-sa/commercial-for-sale-details-8890348 http://www.commercialview.com.au/53-woodside-road-lobethal-sa/commercial-for-sale-details-8915140when is the branch going to sell your hall?

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  nelim

  Those photos look a bit odd.... Has a fake blue sky been put on top? Putting up appearances? They can use some new light ;-)
  
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  35

  Ignorant Atheist Talk Show Host Destroyed by Agnostic Dr. Bart Erhman! Topic "Did Jesus and Paul exist?"

  by MagicMItchJensen in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i want you to see how fake people are who pretend their open-minded, dr. erhman try's to reason with someone whose mind is totally made up.

  the topic is whether there was a man named jesus and paul, the infidel atheist get's owned because he shows his true colors!.

  1. when would you tell this fool he stupid or willfully ignoring the facts?.

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  nelim

  Be aware, this video was uploaded December 2011. Maybe Bart Ehrman changed his opinion in the meantime? Is it still Bart's current opinion Jesus did exist? At least Richard Carrier puts forth a quite convincing argument that Jesus never existed, so if Bart still claims no historian denies Jesus existed then that is dishonest. (But maybe Dr.Carrier put this opinion forth after this interview).
  
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  40

  Canada Branch Finances - What's Going On?

  by berrygerry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  an update on the canada branch hasn't been made (i think).. year-over-year, canada's equity decreased by 11 million in 2012, 17 million in 2013.. however, the 2014 report shows a huge increase (20 million) in the cost of "purchased supplies.

  " with the shrinkage of the mags, and the push to online, how the heck did this go from 39 million to 58 million?.

  even with this number, the equity in 2014 went down by a staggering 56 million.. what the heck is going on?.

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  nelim

  Hmm, would the Kingdom Hall loans have been under that 'Long-term investments" category?

  Isn't the WTS tax-free anyway? So what would be the point of these gifts then, as a tax-return on an already zero tax?
  
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  42

  I need help with this one. What do you think I should do?

  by Quarterback in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my wife is pleasant and easy to get along with.

  she is also helpful to many.

  lately, however, there is a jw sister who some are curious about has befreinded my wife.

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  nelim

  Your wife feels uncomfortable; so let her say to the sister that she feels uncomfortable when she puts her arm around her? Just say what you feel, no need to make "accusations".
  
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  10

  Unscripturally Free To Be Married - the Contradications

  by Ohiamfree in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  so far i have worked out 2 challenges to this ridiculous, stupid cruel imposed rule that results in disfellowshipping.

  (1) if someone is still scriptually married after a divorce, and moved back in with their ex, they would be disfellowshipped.

  so then on what grounds did you ever mean someone was still married?

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  nelim

  Good point Ohiamfree. I have also been wondering about this strange insistence upon "God's view of marriage". Only Matthew has this exception based on "fornication" (and is not even consistent with itself between 5:32 and 19:9), but Mark and 1 Corinthians don't. A lot of remarriage ruling stuff is based on 2 odd verses in Matthew. So who can say what "God's view" really is?
  

  From the elders book, someone is free to remarry if there has been a legal divorce *and* there has been adultery (either before or after divorce). So I guess that explains (1), because it would be adultery if you weren't legally married.

  In case of (2), probably no-one will prevent a person from getting baptized, why would they? But it would prevent that person from remarrying, if I may take a guess. That's the "loving" provision from Jehovah! :-P So yes, the previous mate would have to confess to adultery before the baptized one would be free to remarry. Knowing this organization, they would be consistent in these kind of things. The funny thing is though, it would only mean a trip to a prostitute could be advised for such a person before baptizing (better: before becoming a publisher) and making a confession of that. There would be no repercussions anyway, and it would make that person "scripturally free". Scriptural freedom is symmetrical in all cases; I think one of the better hidden rules of this organization. Of course they would like you to think only the innocent mate is free; that's how they put it in literature, but the elders book says something else entirely (pages 128-131).

  In this context, I heard from someone whose mate left her, and also left the organization and didn't want to speak to elders. She was not free to remarry even though he had a new girlfriend. She had to plead and plead and beg him to talk to elders about this. He eventually did, she was free to remarry, and they didn't take action on him because he was inactive or "not identified as a Jehovah's Witness anymore"..... Well I'm glad for him (who wants to be DF'ed anyway?), but was this loving towards her.... nah!