Posts by Paisley

Coolcat, don't hesitate to seek medical help to aid you through this crisis. Severe depression and anxiety, no matter what the cause, should be reported to your doctor. My experience getting out of the JWs, very similar to yours in many respects, caused life-threatening depression. My doctor prescribed medication and therapy, both of which helped me tremendously. Good luck to you.

I agree, coolcat, when I finally sought medical help for long-standing depression that had become unmanageable, I was surprised at how helpful it was. And how quickly I felt better. All those wasted years being depressed, for nothing. Oh well, better late than never!

38

Scared....

by coolcat in

hello all.

i just joined the site.

does anyone know of a hotline or a phone number i can call to talk to someone about how to leave the truth?

Paisley

avid

the farther you are away from it, pehaps you will find peace

So true! Simple, and true. Distancing ourselves from the teachings gives the brain a chance to recover, to think clearly.

49

What were your reasons for becoming a JW?

by Narkissos in

jw
friends

reasons, not excuses -- even valid ones (like, "i was ignorant, depressed, fooled").. yours in the sense that you can still own (to) them -- even though you now know the "answer" was wrong.. this obviously applies to those who became jws -- hence mostly not born-in, although some of the latter might admit to having chosen the jw way for themselves at a certain stage of their childhood or teenage years.. this question is triggered by a previous conversation with purplesofa on another thread:.

i think most of us that came in and not born in were searching.

our hearts were pure in our search.

Paisley

Euphemism

But to harbor such doubts would be an insult to God, which I was not prepared to commit unless I was already certain of the answer....

Exactly!!

So the only way I could have considered leaving was by already having decided to leave. Catch 22.

Yes! I had the same thoughts. Briefly. Mild panic over that aspect.

38

Scared....

by coolcat in

hello all.

i just joined the site.

does anyone know of a hotline or a phone number i can call to talk to someone about how to leave the truth?

Paisley

Hi coolcat, welcome!! I'm so glad you found the place again - it was down for a long time yesterday.

I felt better when I stopped using the specific JW terminology, such as "the truth" but that was just me. :) It kind of broke the sense of obligation and connection when I identified the organization, verbally, for what it really was, and was not!

Nelly, this is wonderful info, and seems very useful for abusive relationships of all kinds, thanks!

nice to meet you
http://www.angelfire.com/vt/rcwn/Pagefifteen.html
EMOTIONS FELT BY VICTIMS OF EMOTIONAL BLACKMAIL
They feel insecure, unimportant, unworthy and generally bad about themselves
They doubt their ideas and needs
They feel isolated
They may have consistent physical ailments as a result of the stress
They always feel as if they in a FOG unable to think clearly as a result of being manipulated to feel Fear, Obligation and Guilt
TOOLS USED TO CREATE FOG
Making demands seem reasonable
Making the victim feel selfish
Labeling with negative qualities and connotations
Pathologizing or crazy making
Making a demand that needs an immediate response
Allying themselves with someone of authority or influence i.e. parents, children, mental health professionals, religious leaders etc.
Comparing the victim to a person that the victim does not like or is in competition with
Learning the victim's "triggers"
Assess how much pressure to apply before the victim will give in
CHARACTERISTICS OF THE VICTIMConstantly seeks approval
Does their best to avoid anger and keep peace
Takes the blame for anything that happens to others
Has compassion and empathy
Tends to feel pity or obligation
Believes they need to give in because it is the “right thing to do”
Has self-doubt with no sense of their worth, intelligence or abilities
CHARACTERISTICS OF AN EMOTIONAL BLACKMAILER
Has great fear of abandonment and deprivation or of being hurt
Feels desperate
Needs to be in control of things
Experiences frequent frustration
Has thought distortions regarding the reasonableness of their demands
Has had someone emotionally blackmail them and sees that it works to get them what they want
WHAT IS NECESSARY TO STOP EMOTIONAL BLACKMAIL
The victim must begin to look at the situation in a new way.
They must detach from their emotions.
They must realize that they are being blackmailed and that it is not appropriate for the blackmailer to be treating them in that manner.
They must make a commitment to themselves that they will take care of themselves and no longer allow this abusive treatment.
They need to see that a demand is being made on them and that it makes them uncomfortable.
They must determine why the demand feels uncomfortable.
They must not give into the pressure for an immediate decision.
They must set boundaries to be able to take time to consider the situation and to look at all of the alternatives to make the decision.
Finally, they must consider their own needs first for a change, in this process.

42

What really made you exit the Jw's

by KAYTEE in

jw
friends

i know its a question that has been asked a thousand times, but what really made you exit the jws .. for instance, my wife and i, having found out about the u.n., 607bce, failed prophecies etc.

gave all this information to my wifes brother, along with many so called friends.

we came out but the brother and friends stayed in.. the only reasoning i can put on it, is that we made an effort to find out for ourselves what was the real truth, the others were told and given written evidence - but still didnt make a decision.

Paisley

Spectre

I was going to kill myself from loneliness, boredom of life and the boredom of the repetition of the meetings. I went to every meeting from when I was 5 up til I was 26 and after that long with nothing ever happening, I had to get out. At the time I was thinking that it was the "truth" but I was conflicted in that it really wasn't for everyone. There are different types of people all being put into the same cookie cutter mold and I couldn't take it anymore.

Very understandable! I can totally relate. It was such an unnatural environment, with so much suppression and contradiction! I'm glad you decided to leave it behind. How did your parents take your decision, if you don't mind saying. :)

8

Does anyone know where I can download WTS "The Parable of Penny"?

by jwfacts in

does anyone know where i can download wts "the parable of penny"?

it is from 1922 by woodworth.

i looked on reexamine.org but it did not seem to be there.. .

Paisley

Tracts

1881 Bible Student Tract No. 1, [Title Uncertain] 32 pages
1881 Bible Student Tract No. 2, [Title Uncertain] 32 pages
1881 Bible Student Tract No. 3, [Title Uncertain] 32 pages
1881 Bible Student Tract No. 4, Why Evil Was Permitted 32 pages
1881 Bible Student Tract No. 5, The Narrow Way to Life 32 pages
1881 Bible Student Tract No. 6, Chart of the Ages 32 pages
1881 Bible Student Tract No. 7, The Tabernacle and Its Teachings 32 pages
1882 Bible Student Tract No. 8, The Minister's Daughter 32 pages
1882 Bible Student Tract No. 9, Good News For All 32 pages
1887 Arp Slips (also called Arp Tracts) [I don't know how many or how often these were published]
1887 Hints to Millennial Dawn Canvassers 4 page instructional tract for Watch Tower "Colporteurs" (door-to-door salespersons)
1889 World's Hope 4 pages
1898 A Letter to Major Whittle A. S. Herr, 12 pages
1900 Is There a God 16 pages
1902 Hints to Colporteurs 8 pages, instructional tract for Watch Tower salespersons
1910 Suggestive Hints to New Colporteurs 4 pages, instructional tract for Watch Tower salespersons
1912 To Bible Students of All Denominations 2 pages
circa 1913 In the Garden Of the Lord 20 pages
1917 The Heavenly Bridegroom Gertrude W. Seibert, 10 page tract
1917 The Parable of the Penny G. H. Fisher, 6 page tract

8

Does anyone know where I can download WTS "The Parable of Penny"?

by jwfacts in

does anyone know where i can download wts "the parable of penny"?

it is from 1922 by woodworth.

i looked on reexamine.org but it did not seem to be there.. .

Paisley

There's a six page tract advertised by that title, but by Fisher, on Freeminds, as a WTS publication.

http://www.freeminds.org/sales/wtpubs.htm#tt

8

Does anyone know where I can download WTS "The Parable of Penny"?

by jwfacts in

does anyone know where i can download wts "the parable of penny"?

it is from 1922 by woodworth.

i looked on reexamine.org but it did not seem to be there.. .

Paisley

A Difficult Parable

The Parable Of The Penny

Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?—Matthew 20:15

Contributed

The Parable of the Penny is an illustration Jesus gave to his disciples about the Kingdom of Heaven class, the church in the flesh.

In this narrative an owner of a vineyard went out one morning to hire workers for his harvest field. As he was walking he met a group of laborers and sent them into his vineyard, agreeing to pay them a penny for a day’s work. During the third hour of the same day he passed a hiring hall and observed a group of men standing around waiting for employment. He invited them to go out to his vineyard as well, stating that he would pay them whatever was right at the end of the day. Again, at the sixth and ninth hours, he continue finding and hiring laborers to work in his field.

At the eleventh hour, when he saw still another group of men standing idly around, he approached them and asked why they were not working. When they responded that no one had hired them the owner encouraged this final set of workers to join the others in the vineyard.

In the evening the owner directed his steward to call all the men together and pay them, beginning with the last group first. When the men who were hired at the eleventh hour received a penny those who were hired first assumed they would receive much more. However they also received a penny. In their anger, the first hour laborers murmured against the owner, claiming they received the same amount in payment as those who worked but one hour. He informed the laborers he did them no wrong; that he had kept his promise. They were hired to work for one penny, and at the end of the day that was what they received. The owner then told the murmurers to take their payment and leave, and that the last would be first and the first last.

First Advent Application

This parable shows that it was the owner’s desire to pay all of the workers the same amount. Our Lord presented this lesson to his followers to illustrate the murmuring by some members of the church at his second advent, during the harvest period of the Gospel age. Although this narrative seems to refer to an end time picture of the Gospel church, we suggest it might also have a further application to the nation of Israel at the time of Jesus’ earthly ministry.

At that time there was indignation against Christ by his Jewish brethren, primarily motivated by the scribes and Pharisees. Even though the Jewish nation rejected, murmured against, and ultimately crucified our Lord, in contrast the publicans and sinners heard him gladly (Matt. 9:10-13).

The prophet Daniel reveals that the children of Israel were waiting in full expectation for the Messiah at his first advent (Dan. 9:24-27). When Jesus began his ministry, he preached to his Jewish brethren that the Kingdom of Heaven was at hand and he offered them the initial privilege of entering into the high calling arrangement. However, the Jewish nation as a whole, rejected this opportunity to become part of the royal priesthood class, and thus the glorious prospect of becoming joint-heirs with Christ was ultimately given to the gentiles (John 1:11; Acts 15:14).

The scribes and Pharisees believed that they were the only ones faithful to God. Thus they murmured amongst themselves that if the publicans and sinners could obtain the privilege of discipleship, then they, as religious leaders, should be granted something even better than that.

Although both the leaders of fleshly Israel at the first advent and some of his spiritual family at the second advent murmured against the Lord, the crux of the lesson applies largely to the feet members of the gospel church.

Second Advent Application

We do not apply this parable to the entire gospel age. The Apostles, who were among the first workers of the vineyard as the foundations of the new Jerusalem, could not be among those who murmured. Also, they did not live nearly 2,000 years until the eleventh hour, or evening time, of this parable.

A series of prominent events take place during our Lord’s second advent, including the beginning of the gospel age harvest (Rev. 14:13-20), the raising of the sleeping saints (1 Cor. 15:50-54), and the instantaneous resurrection of the faithful ones alive at this time (1 Thess. 4:13-18). All of these must precede the ending of this present evil world and the inauguration of the glorious kingdom reign.

From Matthew 20:3-7 we learn the owner hired workers during the third, sixth, ninth, and eleventh hours. These were never promised a penny for their labor. The third hour laborers were told they would receive whatsoever was right at the end of the day. Although the scriptures do not indicate what compensation the sixth, ninth, and eleventh hour workers would receive at the day’s end, it is implied that what was promised to the third hour workers would also be granted to the laborers who were hired afterward.

We consider the penny to be "the privilege of discipleship." Consecration to the service of the Lord is always in order regardless of the time in which it takes place or the reward which is given. When the heavenly Father accepts our consecration he promises us nothing more than the "penny" of spirit begettal.

When the owner told the third, sixth, ninth, and eleventh hour workers to labor in his harvest field without the definite promise of what their wages would be suggests a time when all the crowns for the high calling would be apportioned, and that any acceptance to this high calling would only occur to fill a vacancy. The third, sixth, ninth, and eleventh hour workers were never promised the penny, even though it was given to them in the evening. Likewise, those who made a sincere consecration to the Lord after all the crowns to the high calling were apportioned were never promised the privilege of discipleship. However, with the falling away of some under the severe testings of this harvest time, vacancies began to occur, beginning with the third hour of the gospel age harvest, and the replacement process continues even to this day. It appears reasonable that "whatsoever is right" would apply during the harvest of our Lord’s second advent, following the apportionment of the crowns, because up until this time, there had always been a crown available for every acceptable consecration.

We conclude that the third, sixth, ninth, and eleventh hours represent different intervals of time, or periods of sifting, during the harvest of the gospel age, when some make acceptable consecrations and receive the penny of spirit begettal even though they had to wait until former members of the anointed class vacated their positions in the body due to being overcharged with the cares of this world, or for unfaithfulness.

Parable Particulars

The payment of the penny, the murmuring, and the steward are other particulars of this parable we would like to further examine. The steward seems to correspond with someone who was made a ruler over the household to give meat in due season (Matt. 24:45). The steward who paid the penalty must also live during this harvest time. We believe this steward is the same as the "wise and faithful servant" who gave full encouragement to the brethren prior to his death that the harvest work had not yet ended but was still going "grandly on." Pastor Charles Taze Russell, through his writings and oral messages, taught the privilege of discipleship, the penny of spirit begettal, and the opportunity to become a part of the royal priesthood was yet available to any whose hearts were in proper accord with the heavenly Father and his beloved Son despite the seeming lateness of the hour, and thus provided the "payment" that still brings joy to the hearts of eleventh hour workers.

We are reminded in scripture that it is still harvest time and that the call for reapers in the vineyard has not yet ceased (Matt. 24:14). Until the announcement is given by the Great Company members that "the harvest is past and summer is ended" (Jer. 8:20), the eleventh hour workers still maintain the opportunity of receiving their payment before evening closes.

In Matthew 20:10-12 we read about the murmuring of the first hour workers who labored long and received the same payment as those who were hired hours afterward. We believe that the first hired workers represent a class of people who served the Lord for many years and felt that others consecrating subsequently would not be eligible for the same reward or spirit begettal because the hour was so late. They, like the scribes and Pharisees, maintained the false reasoning that they alone maintained were entitled to the privilege of discipleship.

The fact that the eleventh hour workers received the penny indicates that the heavenly Father granted them spirit begettal. However, no murmurer who objects to God’s provisions for others can ever receive the full heavenly reward. We are reminded that the good man instructed the first hour workers to "take that thine is and go thy way," adding "is thine eye evil because I am good." It is this spirit of jealousy and the arrogant disposition of heart which leads us to conclude In summary, the admonition of "Be thou faithful unto death" (Rev. 2:10) is a source of encouragement for all the Lord’s people who are living at the close of the gospel age harvest. We believe that the door to the high calling remains ajar, and that all whose hearts are right may enter in.