I tried to describe a personal approach in another thread but one thing I forgot to mention is the need for rapport. If you think about it, a lot of the motivation for JWs is just to belong, even if some might think of it as a reasonable religion. But the point is to go somewhere deeper than the JW conditioning has gone, even if they go to 5 meetings a week and all of that if you go deep enough you can really hit a nerve, and not just to get them upset either - I mean when you really give someone pause.
some-xjw-guy
JoinedPosts by some-xjw-guy
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32
JWs came to my door, and I really dissappointed myself
by jwfacts intoday i was woken by two 20 something year old jw guys.
i let them offer the mags and then told them i was not interested in religion.
after the reasoning book comeback i told them i was a jw but left a year ago.
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What sorts of books or other material do you read?
by zagor ini dont think i have a particular style.
in fact it changed through different stages of my life.
as a kid i loved reading novels, which changed once i came into my teens, and i started developing interest in hard stuff of natural world, psychology, ancient cultures and mysteries.
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some-xjw-guy
Like a lot of people I suppose I read a lot of things online these days, but if anything I would say the one thing that characterize it all is a different view of things. Even if you end up disagreeing with the ideas, you've stretched your mind a bit and considered things from another angle. Along those lines recently I've read a bit about the education system.
So for that matter I might get into a little fiction, saw the movie Thank You For Smoking recently and can really appreciate that satire, heard good things about the book so I might get into that.
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JWs came to my door, and I really dissappointed myself
by jwfacts intoday i was woken by two 20 something year old jw guys.
i let them offer the mags and then told them i was not interested in religion.
after the reasoning book comeback i told them i was a jw but left a year ago.
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some-xjw-guy
Oh as far as actual how-to, you might just tie the personal matter back to the principle which relates to the WT teachings and policy - like should they tell you what kind of sex a married couple should have or something along those lines, you know what I mean.
"Tell them the liberator who destroyed your property has realigned your perception."
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Why do witnesses tell others how to live their lives, yet their own homes..
by The Dragon inare in turmoil?.
i have been watching my witness mother refuse to confront her many problems with my father and brothers...instead running out at every opportunity to knock on her nieghbor's doors and tell them how some men in new york think they should be living their lives and running their household, calling it the "truth"...all while anyone who knows her knows what a mess her home life is.. .
for one i think she should be a bit more selective on what she defines as truth..for two i don't think she can lead by example only empty hypocritical words.. .
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some-xjw-guy
Thats what made me think of the personal approach in the other thread. In a way you play too nice if you are just debating the beliefs. To the degree that people are honest with themselves and are willing to do some actual self examination, it's probably more effective to point out the different ways their life is affected and quite frankly how much it sucks.
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Why play the game if you must cheat to win?
by The Dragon inbeen stumped on this one lately...must one in a position of authority gauge their level of success as how good they are at cheating and using their authority to accomplish their personal plans and adgendas?.
if they would use the intelligence toward finding ways to win the game..instead of new ways to cheat..would the quality of our leadership improve?.
any thoughts?.
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some-xjw-guy
Yeah, and how some people measure it IS by how much power they have over others. So they are cheating the rules of "the game" but they are not in it to play by those rules anyway, they are in it to get what they want. This is why perhaps, just maybe trying to work within the system is stupid if not just limiting. One might pay more attention to what is possible within the limits of natural law rather than what people typically think of as "the law." It doesn't mean you would hurt anyone, there's enough of that going on in various forms.
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JWs came to my door, and I really dissappointed myself
by jwfacts intoday i was woken by two 20 something year old jw guys.
i let them offer the mags and then told them i was not interested in religion.
after the reasoning book comeback i told them i was a jw but left a year ago.
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some-xjw-guy
But it's not about logic or reasoning, I think that's the main problem. It's personal, it involved you as a person, how you felt about yourself, and their arrogance and smugness involved them as persons, and the point is to try to get people out.
Them - I have never heard of that (with a "I don't believe you and don't care" tone)
Look at what this one is conveying, they are taking pride in their ignorance. How can you reason with someone when that is the case? And if you consider the attitude of the zealous young JW, they are like pack animals - there's not much reasoning to be had in that situation.
When it comes to their belief system they are well "defended" - even if the defense doesn't make any sense. (but they can convince themselves of that and keep their head buried in the ground) I think the best way to get through to people when they don't have their guard up is actually with personal stuff. But thats just very unlikely to happen with any JW, since others are considered.. well, others, whether its people identified as worldly or bad association inactive ones or whatever. But just imagine if you were talking about their romantic interest or something, and since the religion has a say about everything there's likely to be something that ties back to the teachings, then you can REALLY involve them and it hits a lot closer to home. Unlikely I know, but hey maybe with family or whatever..
Hmm, come to think of it the debating teachings approach is kind of like the narrow door .. I mean look at how much work it is to actually process all the information and then try to reason with them about it. (which is the harder part of course) But if you get to something real that affects one's life like with the other experience with this woman just telling how she feels, it can be a very simple point and BOOM - the point is made. Of course, in this case the broad way is actually the one leading to life, it involves life as people experience it - that's what makes it work.
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What really made you exit the Jw's
by KAYTEE ini know its a question that has been asked a thousand times, but what really made you exit the jws .. for instance, my wife and i, having found out about the u.n., 607bce, failed prophecies etc.
gave all this information to my wifes brother, along with many so called friends.
we came out but the brother and friends stayed in.. the only reasoning i can put on it, is that we made an effort to find out for ourselves what was the real truth, the others were told and given written evidence - but still didnt make a decision.
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some-xjw-guy
In a word, growth. It may not be evident at first, but my guess is with a lot of people the process starts when they start to outgrow the average JW mentally and emotionally - even spiritually. The same stagnant crap just does not work anymore.
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The need for a GB or FD slave?
by avidbiblereader inthe whole teaching of needing a fd slave hangs on one scripture that really isn't that clear; however in looking at the scriptures how would you/they explain the texts below from the bible, whether they would classify you as a domestic or fellow anointed or other sheep?
hebrews 8:10-12 .
10for this is the covenant that i shall covenant with the house of israel after those days, says jehovah.
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some-xjw-guy
By the way, clearly many will see the possibility of a charismatic leader in this picture, which of course is quite true in a sense. But whether someone abuses that relationship is a different matter, as with a relationship with any kind of intimacy I suppose.
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The need for a GB or FD slave?
by avidbiblereader inthe whole teaching of needing a fd slave hangs on one scripture that really isn't that clear; however in looking at the scriptures how would you/they explain the texts below from the bible, whether they would classify you as a domestic or fellow anointed or other sheep?
hebrews 8:10-12 .
10for this is the covenant that i shall covenant with the house of israel after those days, says jehovah.
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some-xjw-guy
People seem to have forgotten that spirituality is a natural thing, this appears particularly prevalent in the Christian tradition. (but to be fair, it may very well be because of the sheer number of people involved)
What I've found is there is a clear difference between a religious leader and a spiritual leader, the former adheres to a belief system (even if it is someone that has some influence in its structure) and the latter is simply a living example, and the teachings flow out of the way they live their life, not the other way around. This is someone who doesn't try to gain followers but they find him or her, and they are not so much attracted by the teachings but rather by the way it's presented, since that is just another reflection of who they are. From this perspective, analysis of the belief structure is just rather mechanical and clumsy. One might find that the spiritual teacher in fact "agrees" with a lot of the teachings, but it isn't a result of collecting ideas and trying to fit them into a logical structure - it is just naturally true for them.
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Are You Still Very Rules Oriented???
by minimus injws must live by the rules--------or else!
now we are pretty much a free people.
are you liberal or moderate or more conservative in your view?
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some-xjw-guy
Lets qualify though - its just people who are free from the JW mindset. Beyond that theres also rules obeyed by the masses that serve no purpose beyond keeping people obedient, and one may or may not be free from those (possibly unwritten) rules. In fact some people think its a good thing, by following certain rules they have their act together. Rather than looking at it as a strict yes or no question, I tend to operate on the basis of relating with others and respecting them so that it's always dependent on the situation. I have very little respect for hard and fast rules. Sure some things I may agree with on a consistent basis, but it's not just because it's a rule. That's not a reason for anything.