Posts by IsaacJS2

25

God, Brain & Belief.

by Blueblades in

jw
friends

i just finished reading these two books this week.

god by alexander waugh.

this one was an eye - opener, i found it to be different from other books about god.

I tend to agree with Terry about people on average. We might be somewhat exceptional in this sense having left a group like the WTS. I went from dedicated JW to a skeptical secular atheist myself, so some people can make dramatic changes. But I've also met some ex-Witnesses that haven't strayed far at all. (I'm new in here, so I can't comment about members of this board)

I have a rather lengthy bit of personal philosophy to go with this, but it's too long and no one will read it. But I think most people form a general world view fairly early in life and tend to stick with it unless something totally earth shattering occurs. It's easier for us to take every bit of new evidence or information and try to fit it into that worldview instead of adjusting our worldview to fit the evidence. So we tend to rationalize things without realizing it, or simply rejecting the things that don't fit.

I could give examples, but don't want to step on anyone's toes. :-) This seems like a pretty varied collection of folks.

IsaacJ

44

Going door to door to recruit members doesn't work

by JH in

when you look at all the hours they do going door to door world wide and then you look at how many hours preaching it takes to bring just 1 person to their organization, it's not efficient.. my mom goes to a baptist church now, and i was surprised to know that 500 go to that meeting on sundays and they don't go door to door to go get these people.. there might be 80 witnesses at my hall and going door to door doesn't make much of a difference.

maybe it's even counter productive since people don't like being pested at home..

IsaacJS2

Yes, I remember the Society's cries of financial woe. Yet it is also a multi-billion dollar "nonprofit" corporation--and that's only the money moving through the New York branch office alone. These are a matter of public record for nonprofits. Of course, people often forget about the local KH because they're giving all their money to the Society itself. These funds are separate. One does not reflect on the other. They used to talk about our KH as needing funds from time to time as well, but that has nothing to do with the Society itself.

I was actually told by the Elders at my congregation that the donation arrangement has been netting the Society considerably more money. The Society and some other TV evangelist took the govt to task over changes in the tax laws that required them to pay taxes if they stamped a fixed price on the literature. But they lost. That's why the donation arrangement was instituted in the first place. Nothing wrong with that in and of itself. My point is that they later found out that it works in their favor, not against.

This makes total sense. If I say this magazine costs $2, you'll probably give me $2. If I say we take donations, and that there are tons of people who can't afford this stuff, and it would be great if you could help out... Well, if you believe in my cause, you might give me $5 or $10 easy. When I was a Witness, we were constantly being reminded of this. And the literature costs a lot less for the Society than it does for corporated printing presses cause the labor is so cheap. On top of that, it's still tax free. What more could you want?

People I knew would give hundreds at the conventions if they could afford it, yet the Society admitted that it literally only cost them less than $4 a head at our conventions! All of this profit seriously adds up in a big way. And now I hear they aren't even providing food and drinks(?) Can you say, "mo' money, mo' money, mo' money..."

IsaacJ

15

"Knocking" Documentary on JWs?

by Gayle in

maybe this isn't a new topic.

http:www.knocking.org/on_the_big_screen.html.

the clips i saw only gives a very "positive" biased message for jws, not the through & through facts.. pbs will be showing this in may.

IsaacJS2

I gotta say that the link you provided about PBS stations not showing Knocking makes it sound like a pretty "pro WT" production to me. They seem to be addressing JWs specifically, though not everyone may agree with me on that.

IsaacJ

26

Faith in angelic help waning? WT March 1 and March 15, 2007

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

in the march 1st and march 15th issues of the watchtower, there is a paragraph in the study article about.

the help that angels give in the preaching work.. however, i have noticed something not mentioned before - watchtower uses the phrase "too numerous to be dismissed as coincidence" twice.. quotes are below:.

march 1, 2007 - watchtower.

IsaacJS2

I'm an atheist and skeptic, so I'm more inclined to shake my head at these stories than some. I remember one of the brothers I studied with telling me about an experience he had in field service I thought I'd share.

He said that he went to someone's door, and the guy inside brought his dog to the door with him. Before the Brother could start his presentation, the householder turned to his dog and said:

"Jehovah! Sick'em, boy!"

Then the dog turned on its owner instead.

Note that the guy had actually named his dog Jehovah.

This is exactly the sort of story that gets the WT masses going. I have no idea if it was true. I've often suspected that the Elder wasn't as big a believer as he let on, or that he was at least capable of making such a story up. In any case, who knows what really happened.

There are a couple of articles at Austin Cline's Atheism & Agnosticism web site about events which are statistically impossible, yet happen every day to a few people across the world. I could hunt them down if anyone's curious.

IsaacJ

26

Faith in angelic help waning? WT March 1 and March 15, 2007

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

in the march 1st and march 15th issues of the watchtower, there is a paragraph in the study article about.

the help that angels give in the preaching work.. however, i have noticed something not mentioned before - watchtower uses the phrase "too numerous to be dismissed as coincidence" twice.. quotes are below:.

march 1, 2007 - watchtower.

IsaacJS2

::Sigh:: Typical cult logic. Everything is used to reinforce the faith, whether it should be taken that way or not. They cherry pick from events going on around them and try to make them prove whatever they want. Like when some said that 9-11 only happened because of gay rights and women's lib! Give me a break.

If you keep going out in field service, you will obviously find people at a critical point in their lives whether you have supernatural aid or not sooner or later. You won't know about that guy you only missed by one minute because you had to stop at a red light or whatever--an event which would suggest that the angels are actually working against you. (Must be the demons...darn them!) So, to the average Witness, it seems funny that they should always find needy ones at the proper time. Perhaps too often to be a coincidence...even though they have no way of knowing that it isn't a coincidence every time because they aren't omniscient!

To be fair, many religions and fundamentalists commit this sort of error. But it still stinks for the organization to promote this sort of anti-logic.

The Society used to vacillate over this issue. One minute we're reading personal accounts of angelic protection in the Awake!, then a month or two later we're told not to give too much credence to those kinds of stories in the WT magazine because miracles of this sort don't happen any more. Both articles will give examples of why they are right, even though they contradict themselves. Typical double-speak.

IsaacJ

15

"Knocking" Documentary on JWs?

by Gayle in

maybe this isn't a new topic.

http:www.knocking.org/on_the_big_screen.html.

the clips i saw only gives a very "positive" biased message for jws, not the through & through facts.. pbs will be showing this in may.

IsaacJS2

I know almost nothing about it, but would like to see it. Is it truly biased? Some of my in-laws watched it together and thought it was neutral because (they said) it isn't entirely positive. But I suspect it must lean strongly in the Society's favor. To them, that's probably neutral. :-/ What I've seen of it makes it seem pretty positive so far. According to my wife's family, the Society granted them permission to film it, so it can't be too negative. I doubt the Witnesses would have cooperated otherwise.

Back when I was a Witness, you were to treat the media with suspicion.

IsaacJ

26

Show a Pic of Your Pet!

by Country Girl in

jw
friends

i have lots of pets: three horses; three parrots; three cats; and lots of fish.

i love my pets because they make my life whole.

please show the pets that you love!.

IsaacJS2

RATS RULE, BABY!!!

I have taken WAY too much video of my pet rats. Even edited some of them into little videos with music and all that (because I'm weird and mostly suck). Here is a video of a (now long dead) rat named Zippy I made for YouTube. It is called "Zippy the Wonder Rat." I've been meaning to put another one online as well. Maybe I'll get to it soon...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBApW-fg4m0

IsaacJ

4

Loaded Words

by new light in

the other day a jw relative referred to two otherwise anonymous women in the back seat of a car as "two sisters", as in 2 female jws.

neither of us knows them, and they were peripherals to the main story, but the use of the word "sisters" as opposed to women implied certain superiority, as if what happened matters more because the two women were jws.

the psychological oddities of the jws become more apparent with each passing day.

IsaacJS2

Thankfully, I only have WT in-laws to deal with. Not that I haven't had several "fun" encounters with them all. One time, my wife's extremely nice grandma just showed up where I work--which is a public place with customers and fellow employees--and she just starts preaching at me in front of everyone! I couldn't believe it. After numerous encounters like that over the years, I was finally prompted to write all my objections down. I now have a 44 page essay to show for it.

One thing that gets me is how they all seem to assume that somewhere, deep down, I just sorta "know" how right they are. "You know it's the Truth, so why don't you start doing what you Jehovah wants you to?" As if they truly "know" themselves; knowing and believing are two different things. In the end, this sort of arrogance only pushes me further and further away from their true religion.

On second thought, maybe I shouldn't complain...

IsaacJ

16

Do You Still ............ ?

by Outaservice in

since i left the jw's i never wear a neck tie!

i probably have 75 to a 100 of them, but they don't seem to wear them in any churches, do not wear them to weddings and funerals, or even to exclusive restaurants.

i'm certainly never going back to the kingdom hall!.

IsaacJS2

Ah, the WT dress code. I started going to meetings right as I turned 18 and didn't own a suit, but some actually said they didn't believe me! The Elders always had time to pester me about the guidelines in their little books, even underlining the relevant points and stopping me out of the blue just to show them to me. But they never found the time to explain why dressing up in a full suit and tie was so important to my spirituality. (Funny that...says a lot about their priorities)

Finally, someone told me it was so we all looked alike. And if they didn't henpeck me to death about it, somebody else might try it. Can't have that.

Ah, the good old days...

Heh heh. Right. Can't believe I fell for this crap... ::grumble grumble:: ::murmur murmur::

IsaacJ

28

March AWAKE

by mouthy in

just had a call from a jw undercover.... says the march awake is teaching the question on sex again "what young people ask" telling them about hooking up!!!!

i am begining to think that maybe those up in the writing department must get horny while writng all this stuff -the lad that called says he gets horny reading it.

pity!!!!

IsaacJS2

I liked the quote from the JW girl that "going to school is like being on the set of an X rated movie?"

Man, where is this school at? And why couldn't I go when I was a kid??? I was cheated! Cheated, I tell ya! Curse them all!

IsaacJ