Posts by IsaacJS2

5

My "Delusion of Certitude" theory about the WT

by IsaacJS2 in

jw
friends

i think my essay is finally nearing completion.

everytime i think that, i find something else to work on.

but one section talks about my belief that they have (what i call) the delusion of certitude.

IsaacJS2

I think my essay is finally nearing completion. Everytime I think that, I find something else to work on. But one section talks about my belief that they have (what I call) the delusion of certitude. I was thinking about adding the shortest possible version of that to the Best Of section, and maybe the short article about how the WT's biblical "proof" of their religious superiority is crap. They might be useful to other ex-Witnesses, new or old.

The one that debunks their attempt to prove themselves as the "True Religion" using the Bible can be great to have whenever a Witness relative or the like throws that one at you. I think some of them honestly believe the Bible proves they are the right religion.

The other explains my theory about why they act so strangely towards us when we leave the Society. I'm sure everyone has seen this weirdness and thought it bizarre. I offer an explanation that I think makes sense. Hopefully, I can shorten it enough to be more suitable to the forum.

I'm new, so I thought I would ask if that's okay?

IsaacJ

45

Elder quits meetings

by buffalosrfree in

jw
friends

i received good news from my daughter, it was amazing to her, but she informed me that she met an old friend from a congregations we attended 10 years ago, and the upshot was that the friends partents no longer attended meetings.

he her dad had been an elder the last i talked with him, he had left the congregation we were in due to the attitude of other elders there, went to a new congregation and the last i heard was very happy there.

we had had conversations about various aspects of the supposed truth and he always tried to counsel me about the troooth as spouted by the pharasies then.

IsaacJS2

Mystla

As long as the secular VS religious war doesn't catch the whole forum blazing, it's fine. But some on both sides can see the mere presence of the other as an affront and slip in little insults here and there when they can. Sadly, there are assumptions out there about atheists that we really don't need to hear, and a few have already been made in this thread. (Not that I've never met an atheist who wasn't just as bad toward believers) I haven't responded to all of them and I'm not really planning to.

I'm new, and didn't want to see the forum wasted by that sorta attitude. Usually, someone soon declares war after that and it all goes up in flames. I prefer to have a multitude of viewpoints here--in a war, one side usually loses, and then they leave. Even if my side wins, that could get boring. There are plenty of atheist forums already on the web.

BTW, did you know that there are movies planned for the first 6 Covenant novels? A Third Chronicles of Thomas Covenant has already begun. I have book 1. Donaldson is writing 3 more, making it a massive quadrilogy. Don't know how they'll turn Covenant into an acceptable on screen personality unless they change it pretty badly though. We'll see.

IsaacJ

13

Door Sign keeps JW's away

by Wordly Andre in

jw
friends

my door sign actually keeps jws away!!

this past weekend while doing some house work i looked out of my front window because i saw shadows, i walked to the kitchen and looked out my side window, only to see two young brothers walking away.

one was about 19 and the other looked to be 14, i kind of wish they had actually knocked, im always prepared for them.

IsaacJS2

Some of you mentioned the Mormons. I don't know if you'll be returning to this thread, but I thought I'd mention that I have--on 3 separate occasions--had Mormons and JWs in our community at the same time.

I drew a picture about it, because I'm that kinda guy.

Someone on a Yahoo atheist forum told me that if this happened again, if I could get them into a fistfight, they'd fly across the country just to see it. I offered to send him a tape instead.

BTW, JWs and Mormons are all you normally get around here. Funny. There's an Adventist church literally within walking distance. I thought they went door to door, but I have never seen them. Yet I have no idea where the Mormon's worship at locally.

IsaacJ

12

watchtower Library 2006 CD- Rom

by The Lone Ranger in

jw
friends

is the 2006 watchtower library cd rom available yet?

anyone have any idea where i can download it from?

thanks.

IsaacJS2

That's how I got the 2005 CD ROM. I'll have to keep an eye out for the 2006.

IsaacJ

21

When Christians experience the "power of the Christ" ...

by ithinkisee in

is this a feeling unique to christians?.

because i felt tremendously at peace when i came to terms with the facts about (what i feel is) the lack of authenticity of the bible and it's status as an inspired book - almost as if the universe was telling me, "just let go.

things are out of your control.

IsaacJS2

BTW, that sensation you are descibing isn't unique to religion. That sense of excitement and clarity, or when something is just sorta "right" and you know you're on to something big. Etc. It may seem to be a religious experience to a religious believer if they've never felt it before they found religion, but it comes about for other reasons as well. I've been there when I was religious, before I was religous, and after I stopped being religious.

I like what you said about becoming an atheist and not being in control. Some anti-atheists accuse us of needing absolute answers. I tend to think that is not a uniquely atheistic or skeptic trait at all. Both sides can be guilty of that one. Being a healthy secularist, to me, means accepting the fact that you will never have all the answers. If you don't believe in God or an afterlife, then there's no glorious place with answers you expect to go to. It also means you have to try to do the best you can at figuring stuff out anyway.

But enough from me about all that philosophy crap. Heh heh.

IsaacJ

21

When Christians experience the "power of the Christ" ...

by ithinkisee in

is this a feeling unique to christians?.

because i felt tremendously at peace when i came to terms with the facts about (what i feel is) the lack of authenticity of the bible and it's status as an inspired book - almost as if the universe was telling me, "just let go.

things are out of your control.

IsaacJS2

Lonelysheep (or anyone else that's interested)

Just thought you might find this interesting at Google video. It's a video of Richard Dawkins having a sort of impromptu debate with a Christian apologist about his book and his views on a BBC TV show. The audience became pretty hostile. He handles himself well, though he gets pretty impatient with some of the more emotional objections.

There are tons of stuff on him if you just look up his name. Including some that run for well over an hour! I believe I found some satirical stuff about JWs as well. Anyway...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9HtY1chchM

IsaacJ

30

Was It Easy For You To Leave "The Truth"?

by minimus in

jw
friends

was your life totally disrupted?

did you lose a lot of family and friends?

IsaacJS2

For me, leaving was easy--staying was hard. Even at only 6 years, I think I stayed longer than was necessary. But I was about to get married and I think that gave me a final blind spot. Staying became even more difficult after that. Ever since I was baptized, all I saw was ugliness at the Hall. When the blind spot was gone, I realized that I was measuring myself against this standard that kept them above me, always above me. My existence had no value to me any more. If I didn't leave, I was afraid I would do something unskippy to myself. That's when I finally realized the Society was poison.

Why should I keep struggling to get more poison? Suddenly, I just cut it all loose and I was gone.

It bugs them when you do that. You're supposed to feel bad for leaving, not better. It's like you don't think they're better than you any more... And that's your part to play in the game. They try to make you feel guilty or bad for not making them feel better and more certain like you're supposed to. So they keep coming around to try and squeeze what they need from you, deluding themselves about you to feel better about themselves.

I say, let'em starve on it. I give'em nothing but wisecracks or silence. They hate that! Saps them of the will to live. Heh heh.

IsaacJ

45

Elder quits meetings

by buffalosrfree in

jw
friends

i received good news from my daughter, it was amazing to her, but she informed me that she met an old friend from a congregations we attended 10 years ago, and the upshot was that the friends partents no longer attended meetings.

he her dad had been an elder the last i talked with him, he had left the congregation we were in due to the attitude of other elders there, went to a new congregation and the last i heard was very happy there.

we had had conversations about various aspects of the supposed truth and he always tried to counsel me about the troooth as spouted by the pharasies then.

IsaacJS2

Thanks everybody. I was really starting to worry there.

I had a little breakthrough last night while I was trying to wrap up my essay. Many of my best ideas come from the sudden convergence of several other good ones, and that's what happened late last night. I think my understanding was increased by working on the essay. Maybe I knew I was on to something when I began and that's partly why I had to write it.

Then I hit the board and saw signs of the same issues I had just assigned to the WT and some of the more extreme intolerant stuff I've been seeing elsewhere against unbelievers, like me. (Anyone ever read the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant? No? Oh well...)

"Oh nuts..." I thought. Not again!

Anyway, no worries now. Thanks a lot everybody.

IsaacJ

45

Elder quits meetings

by buffalosrfree in

jw
friends

i received good news from my daughter, it was amazing to her, but she informed me that she met an old friend from a congregations we attended 10 years ago, and the upshot was that the friends partents no longer attended meetings.

he her dad had been an elder the last i talked with him, he had left the congregation we were in due to the attitude of other elders there, went to a new congregation and the last i heard was very happy there.

we had had conversations about various aspects of the supposed truth and he always tried to counsel me about the troooth as spouted by the pharasies then.

IsaacJS2

Needproof,

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I really hope this forum won't go that way. I've seen other forums with atheists and believers mixed, and some on both sides fell into that ego trap. Sooner or later such forums turn into ugly places. I'll leave if it goes that way.

I had a bit of that problem in me when I first went all atheist. Didn't even know it--that's how subtle it can be. Both sides can climb into our ivory towers to look down on all the rabble if we get too confident. I so hope this forum isn't like that. I hope our egos never get so big.

If the thread gets mean because of this, I will probably stop reading it. Just so everyone knows if I don't respond to any flames aimed our way. But I hope we're all bigger than that.

IsaacJ

45

Elder quits meetings

by buffalosrfree in

jw
friends

i received good news from my daughter, it was amazing to her, but she informed me that she met an old friend from a congregations we attended 10 years ago, and the upshot was that the friends partents no longer attended meetings.

he her dad had been an elder the last i talked with him, he had left the congregation we were in due to the attitude of other elders there, went to a new congregation and the last i heard was very happy there.

we had had conversations about various aspects of the supposed truth and he always tried to counsel me about the troooth as spouted by the pharasies then.

IsaacJS2

Sorry if I made anyone mad. I don't want to get myself tossed on the fringes of this forum like I have elsewhere. But this sad, "atheists are just so blind and wrong" business is just too familiar. Very WT-esque.

Imagine the last time a former WT friend came by to preach at you and just shook their head pityingly when you didn't "get" their message of hope, and maybe you'll know what I mean. Just because they believe their brand of "truth" didn't make it true. Didn't that offend you? To assume otherwise is very egotistical. Please don't be like them.

If you're going to talk down to us like this, or about us, maybe you should note that in the thread somehow so we won't read it. I'd rather not even know about it. Meanwhile, I'll try not to look down on you. Please, let's just be equals in this big old world of ours.

IsaacJ