Posts by IsaacJS2

12

Truth

by thebiggestlie in

i imagine part of the draw of the jws is the fact that they claim to have all the answers and the ultimate truth.

it's true they seen to on the outside provide many "answers" to many questions but now that i know these answers aren't the absolute truth that i once thought they were my mind is now open to a whole new world of ideas and theories and explanations.

assuming that logically there is only one absolute truth in the universe (that in itself is a huge assumption but bare with me) then it is easy to get tied down and overwelmed by the shear volume of differing info and ideas available to mankind.

IsaacJS2

I talk a little about this subject in my own essay. I split it up 3 ways. I know some won't agree, but that's okay. Hopefully I can explain it here in a way that makes sense. If not, then blame the author (me).

There is Absolute Truth: The way it is, no matter what we think or do. This is unobtainable to us. There are too many layers of abstraction between our awareness and our reality.

There is Evidential Truth: The way it probably is given the evidence and the most objective reasoning on that evidence the human intellect will allow. Objectivity requires us to be brutal with our worldview--we must be willing to set it aside if changing evidence denounces our current view of things. That means the Evidential Truth is always in motion (always changing) because we must force ourselves to change as new evidence keeps rolling in.

And there is Personal Truth: The way it is when we take the evidence and try to fit it into our preconceived ideas about the world. As far as I can tell, humans are probably wired to think this way by default. We tend to form an opinion of how things work early in life that seems functional and we tend to stick with that unless something forces us to change. Any new evidence that can't be made to fit into that worldview may even get tossed aside and rejected, when it should really (in my opinion) work the other way around.

Anyway, hope this gives you ideas...or even ones worthy of disagreeing with. Both the Evidential and the Personal have their limits. Both have the potential of creating false certainty about the world around us. I called all 3 of these "truths," but really the last two should probably be called truisms. Only the Absolute Truth is really, totally true. But the others seem to be true to us when we use them in figuring out our world.

IsaacJ

19

We are NOT a CULT!

by UnDisfellowshipped in

jw
friends

the watchtower, september 15, 2002 issue, pages 16-18: .

the watchtower, january 1, 1942 issue, page 5: .

the watchtower, may 1, 1957 issue, page 274: .

IsaacJS2

I consider them to be a cult. I remain surprised at how many ex-Witnesses I have met online who actually disagree.

They don't like the Society, see it as harmful, but don't think of it as a cult. I've met others that see it as a cult, but who think this is accidental. That is to say that the Society means well, but has become a cult unintentionally.

I remain curious to see how others here will respond to this thread.

IsaacJ

7

ETs and Bible

by Woodsman in

i was wondering since leaving the wts has anybody adopted new views on life from other worlds or do you still hold to the wts's view.. i am open to alot of new possibilities.

pictures like the one below make me wonder.

it was painted in 1710. long before weather balloons and experimental aircraft.

IsaacJS2

As a pro-science atheist, I suspect there is life beyond the Earth. Especially now that we know planets aren't that uncommon. I still find claims of earthly E.T. visitations doubtful, but possible.

IsaacJ

14

Research question on "true religion"--for exWitnesses

by IsaacJS2 in

i am nearly done with my writing project about why i went from a jw to an atheist.

whether you are an atheist or not, i was just wondering what you thought about the biblical signs that the society points to as proof that it is the "true religion.

" the essay is basically a breakdown of why i reject the society's claim to being the "true religion" and i was looking for specific arguments that i hadn't already thought of.. i'm tempted to post this essay somewhere once it's complete, but i don't know where i would since it's looking to be between 40-50 pages long.

IsaacJS2

Everybody,

I think I have what I need on this one now. I've cleaned up the section I was worried about and should be near completing the essay. I had started it with the intent of keeping it personal, but thought I might post it someday. (I even explain that in the essay) Since you guys helped and this is surely an appropriate place for it, I'll try uploading it here as a PDF the way some suggested. If anyone catches a mistake, I'll be able to make corrections and provide a second edition later on.

Don't mean to toot my own horn or anything, but if I cleaned my post to Junction-Guy up a little about the 7 signs of the True Religion, maybe I should put it in the "Best of" section? Others might find this abbreviated article useful in writing their own "Why I left and won't come back to the WT" papers. These "fruits" of the True Religion are a favorite of JWs, and this kinda smacks it in the noggin, you know?

Thanks a lot for helping me with the finishing touches, and for the encouragement. Glad Tall Penguin pointed me to this board!

IsaacJ

14

Research question on "true religion"--for exWitnesses

by IsaacJS2 in

i am nearly done with my writing project about why i went from a jw to an atheist.

whether you are an atheist or not, i was just wondering what you thought about the biblical signs that the society points to as proof that it is the "true religion.

" the essay is basically a breakdown of why i reject the society's claim to being the "true religion" and i was looking for specific arguments that i hadn't already thought of.. i'm tempted to post this essay somewhere once it's complete, but i don't know where i would since it's looking to be between 40-50 pages long.

IsaacJS2

Sorry about the spelling errors, I think I must be dyslexic or something. I sometimes reverse word spellings when I'm writing in a hurry. Even easy ones, like "no" for "know." Very sad for a writer-wannabe.

IsaacJ

14

Research question on "true religion"--for exWitnesses

by IsaacJS2 in

i am nearly done with my writing project about why i went from a jw to an atheist.

whether you are an atheist or not, i was just wondering what you thought about the biblical signs that the society points to as proof that it is the "true religion.

" the essay is basically a breakdown of why i reject the society's claim to being the "true religion" and i was looking for specific arguments that i hadn't already thought of.. i'm tempted to post this essay somewhere once it's complete, but i don't know where i would since it's looking to be between 40-50 pages long.

IsaacJS2

Junction-Guy,

I have actually found 7 items I felt were worth mentioning. Six were contained within a single book, "What Does The Bible Really Teach?" under the heading "How To Identify The True Religion." (I have the 2005 CD ROM) Here they are, with a brief evaluation of each.

1. God's servants base their teachings on the Bible.

This merely limits the playing field to Christianity. There's more than 1500 denominations in the U.S. alone as I understand it. There is no reliable way to no which of them teaches a theology which is most accurate.

2. Those who practice the true religion worship only Jehovah and make his name known.

Jehovah is a transliteration of Yahweh. So this would actually seem to disqualify the Society. (Hey, they're the ones who brought the list to our attention!) But the Society reasons that "Jehovah" is better due to consistency with common usage. I say, bull-cookies! It's not "The true religion will spread the name of God...or whatever name they prefer is also fine, too." That undermines the whole point. Jesus used "father" and "God" more than he used Yahweh in the Bible. What better example of consistency can there be than Jesus' own? And when he taught his disciples how to pray, Jesus used "father," not Yahweh or Jehovah. Several denominations engage in active door-to-door preaching, and both the Catholic's alone have converted millions with their early missionary works throughout history. It's because of them, and other early Protestant missionaries, that Christianity is the largest religion in the world today. Directly and indirectly, they have all converted far more people than the Society has.

3. God's people show genuine, unselfish love for one another.

The article focuses on refusal to serve in the military as their greatest example. But now, the Society allows this! There are still other religions that totally refuse military service. They would seem to be better examples of this virtue. It doesn't say, "unselfish love for one another unless Caesar asks you to kill other Christians." The Society also eschews other goodly works, like charities, while shunning those who are spiritually weak.

4. True Christians accept Jesus Christ as God's means of salvation.

Don't all Christians claim to do this?

5. True worshipers are no part of the world.

The Society is hardly the only one that does this. In fact, the Anabaptist faiths like Mennonites, Amish, and Hutterites do it better. The Church of God and Christadelphians go about it in a similar fashion to the Society. All 5 refuse to serve in the world's armies, which the Society used to do, and they avoid political entanglements.

6. If a person is loved by God, he will be hated by the world. (I got this one elsewhere because the Witnesses love to trot it out too)

The Mormons, Waldensians, and the Anabaptist faiths have suffered as badly as the Witnesses. The latter two were persecuted and executed for centuries by the Catholic Church and the governments of their day. In fact, most small, "cult-like" sects have sufferd some forms of hatred, are no part of the world, and avoid military service as well.

In the end, the list is too vague to be useful. None of them point to the Society and a couple cast some doubt on their claims.

IsaacJ

14

Research question on "true religion"--for exWitnesses

by IsaacJS2 in

i am nearly done with my writing project about why i went from a jw to an atheist.

whether you are an atheist or not, i was just wondering what you thought about the biblical signs that the society points to as proof that it is the "true religion.

" the essay is basically a breakdown of why i reject the society's claim to being the "true religion" and i was looking for specific arguments that i hadn't already thought of.. i'm tempted to post this essay somewhere once it's complete, but i don't know where i would since it's looking to be between 40-50 pages long.

IsaacJS2

Cool links, jwfacts. I will check them out.

IsaacJ

91

If Jehovah isn't the true God then who is?

by unbaptized in

if jehovah isn't the true god then who is?

if the jehovah's witnesses aren't god's people then who is?.

please let me know and i need current information, not outdated information regarding the origin of the organization.

IsaacJS2

As far as I know, all religions are based on faith, not facts. Some tend to manufacture "facts" as evidence to support their beliefs like the WTS, but I don't know of any such evidence any of them can offer that can't be disproven or at least found questionable. Of course, to test that you will have to do the leg work yourself.

That's a key reason why I'm an atheist, which you asked me about in another topic.

IsaacJ

9

Review Awake September 2006- Creation vs Evolution

by Copernic in

it's my first topic.

i'm one of the webmaster of http://www.viaveritas.fr a extheist website.

we dare to hit watcthower's doctrines.

IsaacJS2

If you have something in English, I could help too. Studying the Creation Book was the first step I took toward realizing that the WT's literature is dishonest, so I'm kinda into that. I wouldn't mind seeing their latest attempt to discuss the issue either. I assume they are still copying Intelligent Design arguments to update their Creation Book?

IsaacJ

14

Research question on "true religion"--for exWitnesses

by IsaacJS2 in

i am nearly done with my writing project about why i went from a jw to an atheist.

whether you are an atheist or not, i was just wondering what you thought about the biblical signs that the society points to as proof that it is the "true religion.

" the essay is basically a breakdown of why i reject the society's claim to being the "true religion" and i was looking for specific arguments that i hadn't already thought of.. i'm tempted to post this essay somewhere once it's complete, but i don't know where i would since it's looking to be between 40-50 pages long.

IsaacJS2

Sorry Unbaptized, I've been trying to get back to your question. I will try to keep it fairly short...if I can. As you may have noticed, I have trouble keeping my posts short. Not posting this to debate the issue with anyone, BTW. That's already gotten me in trouble elsewhere.

Basically, my problems in the Society left me with a desire for answers. Was I really the screw up here, or is there real evidence that the Society is the screwy one? Inlaws bugging me about their "True Religion" helped to egg me on because I wanted to have a cohesive rebuttal. So I began researching the Society's literature and their doctrines. This led me to discussions and articles on philosophy, and I had begun to see myself as pretty agnostic anyway. There were plenty of atheist arguments to be found, and I simply found that their arguments were easily the most powerful. The apologist's replies seemed weak at best.

So I began to learn more about atheism and in recent years, I have to say that--in my view--that's the most likely one to be correct. The universe makes the most sense to me from a secular point of view. God and the supernatural requires too much explaining and backpedalling for me. Like I said, no offense intended against anyone. I know people who believe won't agree, and that's fine.

In other words, my bad religious experience led me on a quest for answers. That quest led me to atheism as the most sensible choice IMO.

IsaacJ