Posts by IsaacJS2

77

Who here are basically athiest now???

by What-A-Coincidence in

jw
friends

*raises hand.

a few interesting quotes:.

"religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies.

IsaacJS2

Sucks to be right sometimes. [img]http://bestsmileys.com/welcome/18.gif[/img]

77

Who here are basically athiest now???

by What-A-Coincidence in

jw
friends

*raises hand.

a few interesting quotes:.

"religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies.

Interesting to get some picture as to how many of us there are. I've been in Witness-turned-atheist forums in the past, but they were always either very inactive or secular in name only. And they always seemed pretty small. I had begun to think that the vast majority of ex-Witnesses became fundamentalists, though it seemed like a fair number of us would take an interest in atheism to me. Not because of our bad experiences (a lame stereotype that gets old) but because of our mindset. I tend to find that we secular types have a somewhat different view of what truth is than believers. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course. But it took my experience with the WTS to get me fully on track with that way of thinking. I had begun to think I was highly unusual before I found JWD.

IsaacJ

PS-- I just want to see if this works. I doubt it will...

[img]http://bestsmileys.com/welcome/18.gif[/img]

77

Who here are basically athiest now???

by What-A-Coincidence in

jw
friends

*raises hand.

a few interesting quotes:.

"religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies.

IsaacJS2

To me, this isn't terribly important. But I just wanted to point out that scientists claim to have produced completely new life forms on at least 2 separate occasions in a lab. At least one of these was by accident. I don't recall the details on the articles just now, but these events were reported in popular science magazines years ago.

Whatever the case, I don't think the ability to create life matters as much as a lot people think. Creationists will say that they still used things God created to do that, so they won't be overly impressed. I think it's very interesting, but I don't think that will change anyone's opinion much about any thing they already have opinions about.

One of my "writer wannabe" ideas was a civilization, or even a solar system, where everything was based on nanotechnology. The nanites would perform the same tasks as the organelles in a living cell. It isn't hard to see how you could organize them into something that is, by every scientific definition, alive. They could even reproduce sexually, asexually, or whatever you designed them to do. They could look and function like us, or be something bizarre. With this in mind, I tend to look at living things as complex biological machines of a sort.

Just a thought for anyone considering this stuff who hasn't thought of it already.

IsaacJ

142

The Need To Question Atheism

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

the need to question atheism this need to question atheism stems from the fact there are some individuals.

on this board that subscribe to such.

the questions stated are not for some.

IsaacJS2

Wanderer, thanks for posting the question with good intentions. A lot of people who have issues with us don't even bother asking, or if they do, it's to vent their exasperation with what they think they know about us. After participating in the "Blasphemy Challenge" on YouTube, I can't help but be reminded of that fact. So I really appreciate you asking.

As to what it is, atheism is just the lack of belief in God. Note that atheism as a single word doesn't automatically imply one is non-religious, only non-god believing. Some religions are atheistic. Most, if not all of we atheists here, are agnostic atheists. http://atheism.about.com/ is a good place to learn more about atheism in detail.

If there was proof of God, I probably wouldn't have become an atheist. I'm not an atheist due to my WT experiences--or at least, not directly because of them. The evidence just seems to lean against the existence of God. I suspect that if I'm wrong and there is a god of any sort, it is a deistic one. I actually do doubt the existence of the Christian God, as mentioned in the Bible. I also agree with those who said he isn't presented as a very nice guy in the Bible (WT version or not). If that particular god does exist, I wouldn't worship Him because He deserves it. The best I could offer is deference out of fear to avoid getting zapped with leprosy or turned into a pillar of salt, or something. I doubt the existence of the supernatural as well. I don't see how life after death is possible, but just like everything else I say or think, I could always be wrong.

As far as meaning of life stuff goes, I don't know that the universe owes us a meaning to live. Why should we expect to be given one? We can't be lazy about this--we have to find our meaning ourselves. We were born to live and have to create our purpose. We have to use our time well instead of writing off this life in favor of some other. That's how I feel about it. Far as I'm concerned, when we look in the mirror, that's all that we are. Our minds, however, can do wonderful and even awe inspiring things. I see nothing depressing about that. It just seems like a bit of an ego trip to reject atheism on this basis to me. If it's just the way it is, and has always been, then no biggy. You know? Atheism, as mentioned by others, doesn't pretend to answer such questions. There is no philosophy, dogma, or worldview implied by atheism.

BTW, thanks for your open mindedness as well, Olvidado. :-)

IsaacJ

15

Ex-jw, inactive mormon, and now what?

by olvidado in

jw
friends

after 4 years of having lurking through this forum (except one time that i asked an username and used it once),i have decided to participate in this.

i am spanish, i have been living in a small town in the north of spain almos my whole life (except one year in leicester-england), but currently i am lving in germany.

my story: i have been brought up in a catholic family, but the religion was never important in my familiy.

IsaacJS2

olvidado, Welcome to the forum. My father's side of the family had some Mormon wannabes who never quite conformed to the standards. I keep hearing mixed opinions about them, though. I have often wondered how they compare to the WTS in terms of how controlling they are, and such. Since you are just thinking about leaving them, I guess you would say that they are far less controlling? Just curious about your opinion, especially since you are the first person I've spoken to that has been in both. BTW, I think your English is very good. :-) I have never been able to get a handle on any other languages myself. IsaacJ

77

Who here are basically athiest now???

by What-A-Coincidence in

jw
friends

*raises hand.

a few interesting quotes:.

"religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies.

IsaacJS2

Yet another "hard core" atheist here. I'm glad someone mentioned the definition of the word. People don't realize that agnosticism isn't an in-between category. The overwhelming majority of atheists are actually agnostics as well. So are many theists, in fact.

I think the Austin Cline web site at About.com is the best on this. (I'm working on some ex-JW turned atheist articles for him right now, in fact) He addresses everything from atheists in the news to misconceptions about atheists. And there are a LOT of misconceptions. These are the things that bug me the most about people who have a real problem with atheists. Nearly everything they seem to believe about us is just plain untrue and unfair. It gets real fun when a Witness (who used to be your friend) tries to informyou about yourbeliefs as if they know better than you do, and why you are full of crap about when you try to set them straight! Mabye they should try asking me instead of making assumptions based on their reading of the WT.

Grrr...

I think the words "atheist" and "fundamentalist" need to be replaced. What good are they when we have so many definitions and misunderstandings that can apply in the same context? You can't call yourself one or the other without having to explain which of the definitions you mean. The word "atheist" just comes with too much baggage. I tend to think "non-theist" is better. But I still call myself an atheist because that's the group I best belong to. Calling yourself irreligious or a non-theist makes it sound like you're embarassed to be an atheist in the first place. You just can't win, sometimes.

116

Convince me

by Liza in

i am highly considering becoming a jehovah's witness.

i have been raised in the congregration, but left it when i was a child because my mom left too, but we still retatined the core belifs including the ressurection and the blasphemous pagan influence on mainstream churches.

my mom has recently returned to the congregation, and it has helped her a lot.

IsaacJS2

I have to admit that I'm a little confused here. I don't have much interest in convincing anyone of anything. Contrary to what the Society claims, most ex-Witnesses are not rabidly crazy and have other things to do with their lives. You will have to do most of the work on this. Most of us are willing to talk about these things, but what you do is your own business.

BTW, some of the things you said don't make sense to me or are directly contradicted by what I was taught by the WTS. These could be things that have changed. They are infamous for changing their doctrines, but others have also spotted the differences here on the board already. I would recommend that you get the points you raised clarified before getting baptized. Bear in mind that Witnesses will often tell little-white-lies if they don't think you're ready to hear something yet, so you should really ask more than one person about them. Not all of them will do this, but plenty of them will.

For instance, I know of no difference in the "moral requirements" of the 144,000 vs the great crowd. They are the same. I have heard the Society say that it isn't guaranteed that people who have never had the chance to speak with a JW will be killed by Jesus during Armageddon, but only rarely and not in a long time. They usually go on to say that this is just a guess and that no one should count on that. Besides, if their numbers are true, then 100s of millions of people have heard and billions will die at Armageddon. There version of God is going to commit a holocaust that makes Hitler's look like a joke, while giving nearly everyone else that has already lived and died a free ride. I'm sorry, but the notion that the world is more "wicked" than ever before is just bologne. This is the kind of right-wing pandering that get's on my nerves; statistically, many things are actually better than ever before. The fact is that some things just get better, some things just get worse, and a hundred years from now the numbers could swing in reverse. That's the way it's always been and will probably be for a very long time if not forever.

Any way, my reasons for staying away from the WTS have nothing to do with scripture. I am not very impressed by most religions I'm afraid. It is the Society's policies and how they manipulate people that make me see them as harmful. Almost everything they do has a psychological basis, each of them small by themselves but there are so many that they add up.

I would suggest you look for information on cults and how cult experts and mental health experts test for them. Search for info online and then come back and discuss that with us. I believe some may have posted lists here that show how the Society fulfills the requirements of a cult using a wide assortment of various models to test.

Finally, think about the daily grind of a WT slave. To my mind, they are really just a very clever publishing house that indoctrinates millions of people into being lifelong subscribers to their wares. Think about it. The Witnesses peddle their literature for free. Their children work the presses for virtually nothing. Then they all turn around and buy the stuff (through donations) and often at a higher price because they are constantly reminded to do so to help the cause. The Witnesses are the Society's cash cow! You need all those new books and magazines for the meetings and the conventions often make a big deal about every new thing they produce. If they give someone the litature who doesn't donate for it, the Witness is admonished to donate for it instead! The Society is worth well over a billion dollars thanks to their slave labor force. And it's all tax free.

That's just an outline of my views. Think what you want (while you still can). It's your decision. I'm willing to bounce ideas around about what they do and why it's wrong, but I'm not campaigning against them or anything like that. If I were, they'd still have a strangle hold on my life as they once did. Nuh-uh, not for me. You must make up your own mind on this one. Discussions are still welcome, though.

IsaacJ

38

Silly Things You Can Do For Which Jehovah Will Kill You...

by gaiagirl in

i was thinking about all the various people who the bible says have been killed by jehovah or his angels for various acts of disobedience.

here are a few of the ones i thought of....feel free to add your own eating a piece of fruit (slow death, 930 years) picking up some sticks on the sabbath preventing the ark of the covenant from falling when the guy carrying it stumbles living in a city where your family has lived for generations, in a region where jehovah has "given" the land to his "chosen" people dancing for your victorious warrior father, not knowing he has vowed to offer the first one out of the house as a burnt offering.

disagreeing with moses

IsaacJS2

Naughty words.

IsaacJ

4

Can anybody recommend any audio cleaning-up software to stop hissing

by needproof in

jw
friends

?

IsaacJS2

I have some experience with this. (I like Adobe Audition, but it's rather pricey) I've actually found that a lot of noise-removal software just doesn't do the trick because it often fails to isolate the sound I want removed. If your software has an equalizer, parametric equalizer, a bandpass/stop filter or a low/high pass filter, you can actually do a lot with it and get nearly perfect results with tape hiss.

Goldwave (www.goldwave.com) has this ability. It isn't exactly free, but even the shareware version will let you perform any 100 operations you want before it starts nagging. If it starts nagging, you can restart it and the count begins anew. It is also very cheap to buy and almost as good as Audition. Especially for the price at $45. It is very powerful.

1. Goldwave's equalizer (found under the effects/filters settings at the top) has 7 bands, or sliders. Try selecting a small portion of the audio, one with both the hiss and the sound you want to keep, and start playing with the last 2 or 3 sliders and see what that does for you. You could also try the "Reduce Treble" presetting at the bottom of the equalizer window. If you get good results, try selecting the whole recording and see if it still sounds okay.

2. Goldwave's bandpass filter might also work. The "voice hum and hiss filter" presetting might do the job.

3. It also has a noise reducer. This might work, but like I said, they usually just aren't precise enough.

IsaacJ

21

Bitter!!

by Gill in

jw
friends

during many of my discussions with my parents about the wt and what i feel about their book publishing company, my mother loves to hurl the word 'bitter!

' you're bitter!

you're bitter because you know we're right!

IsaacJS2

It does annoy me. But if I let it show, they just think they've struck a nerve of something. They take that as a sign that they are right and we really do "know" that they are "just right." I'm working on learning to shrug this crap off and to avoid asking for their approval. It just reinforces their particular form of craziness.

IsaacJ