Posts by Esmeralda

124

I Think That I Chose My Parents.

by Englishman in

jw
friends

do you believe in reincarnation?.

i dont think i believe in it in the same way that most believers do, which is that we keep coming back in different fleshly bodies until we have achieved perfection.. i do, however, strongly suspect that we may well be spirit creatures who find it necessary to inhabit a fleshly body from time to time, and that this entails us having to leave behind most of our past memories.. i say most memories, because many people seem to have some vestigal recollections that don`t seem to fit in with earthly experiences.. i`m pretty sure that i chose my parents!

i have a recollection of being shown a young and kind couple through some form of astral telescope and choosing to become their son.

Esmeralda

To me, it's a good thing to share knowledge and I'm pretty confident that you feel the same
way. Thanks for providing your point of view - it is appreciated (even from a cold, sterile,
logical type like me). :)

You're right there, Rem. I have really enjoyed our exchanges in this thread. I don't think you're cold
or 'sterile' at all.

If you have followed my posts in the past then you know that I, like you, have a special place in my
heart for the lurkers. I too think about those reading who don't post, and consider them when I write.

All in all, it's been an interesting day :) I look forward to reading your posts in the future.

All the best,
Es

124

I Think That I Chose My Parents.

by Englishman in

jw
friends

do you believe in reincarnation?.

i dont think i believe in it in the same way that most believers do, which is that we keep coming back in different fleshly bodies until we have achieved perfection.. i do, however, strongly suspect that we may well be spirit creatures who find it necessary to inhabit a fleshly body from time to time, and that this entails us having to leave behind most of our past memories.. i say most memories, because many people seem to have some vestigal recollections that don`t seem to fit in with earthly experiences.. i`m pretty sure that i chose my parents!

i have a recollection of being shown a young and kind couple through some form of astral telescope and choosing to become their son.

Esmeralda

Jan,

I am secure enough in my own ideals not to have to defend them to you, or anyone else.

You may say that is because I have no 'arguements'. This is not the case, in reality,
I have to budget my time and energy (and eyesight) because of my health limitations. I do not care
to continue this conversation.

I respect that you view things scientifically. I am not saying that I am right, and you
are wrong. I do not need to be right, I just need to believe what is 'right' for me.

If you carry on true to form you will probably say that I'm a coward or don't have anything
worth saying and that is why I am terminating my part of this discussion. That is not true either.

I have just learned to recognize when I am wasting my breath, because no matter how much I talk,
you won't hear me anyway.

Thank you for the comments that you have made. I have listened and thought about them.

Have a nice day.
Es

124

I Think That I Chose My Parents.

by Englishman in

jw
friends

do you believe in reincarnation?.

i dont think i believe in it in the same way that most believers do, which is that we keep coming back in different fleshly bodies until we have achieved perfection.. i do, however, strongly suspect that we may well be spirit creatures who find it necessary to inhabit a fleshly body from time to time, and that this entails us having to leave behind most of our past memories.. i say most memories, because many people seem to have some vestigal recollections that don`t seem to fit in with earthly experiences.. i`m pretty sure that i chose my parents!

i have a recollection of being shown a young and kind couple through some form of astral telescope and choosing to become their son.

Esmeralda

Hi Jan,

Science is not a belief system.

I respectfully disagree, but you could have guessed that I would *lol* :)

Some have elevated it to the level of a religion. You yourself said that it deserved an evangelical compaign :)

Again my point is not the issue here, but my right to believe one way, and for you to believe
another without having to call me ignorant.

larc,

To you and Jan I say, I stand corrected for having said it was believed 'scientific fact' that
the Earth was flat. I should have used the word theory, that was the word I meant
to use. Still I believe my point was made.

As far as near death experiences, I did not give my beliefs on the matter, if you read my post again
you will see that, I said that my opinion didn't matter. I merely used it as an example. My beliefs on it are irrelevant,
because I was using it to demonstrate my point.

You don't know what I believe about 'near death experiences'. I never told you.

In fact, if I did, it would surprise you, considering you already have seem to come to
your own conclusions about what I do and do not believe. We might even agree on the subject,
but you don't know because you assumed you knew what my answer would be.

I, too, prefer truth to mystery. I just don't consider my opinion, or those of any man, superior
to those of any other man. It is not my place to judge my fellow man.

I don't believe that there is a black and white here: either you believe in all this esp stuff or you don't:
people believe in degrees. It is not that clear cut, that is why I shouldn't have used the phrase
believers/nonbelievers. It's too narrow. That was again a poor choice of words on my part.

I respect your opinions, larc. I just feel uncomfortable with anyone who has such a need to make
everyone else's views wrong so that they can justify their position.

Peace,
Es

p.s. I appreciate all the comments made by everyone in this thread, I feel like I've said
all I can say, so I thank you all for your time and want to let you know I'm leaving it here. My eyes
are tired and it's time to log off now :)

10

Tolerance

by Esmeralda in

jw
friends

after observing a couple of the current threads on this board, i thought that i'd throw this.

issue out there to see what people think.

i'm really curious.. has it been your experience that people who were jehovah's witnesses in the past tend to carry.

Esmeralda

Hello Everyone,

After observing a couple of the current threads on this board, I thought that I'd throw this
issue out there to see what people think. I'm really curious.

Has it been your experience that people who were Jehovah's Witnesses in the past tend to carry
their conversational/confrontational style right out of the Kingdom Hall with them?

That when it comes to matters, religious or otherwise, they tend to take the "I have the facts,
and people with the opposing point of view are ignorant, uninformed, or just refuse to face reality"

I have seen this a lot, in different discussion boards. It seems like after a point, people sink into
old habits and constructive exchanges become destructive because they can't simply leave it at this:
"We disagree. My view is valid, and so is yours: lets leave it at that."

Why is it that former JW's feel this driving need to be right all the time? Even in matters where
there clearly is no right or wrong answer? They continue to believe that their view is more
relevant than that of their fellow man.

I'm just curious to see if others have observed this as well and if so, how they handle it or
stopped thinking this way themselves after they left the organization.

This is a quote from my favorite book, "The Four Agreements" by Don Miguel Ruiz. This is from the
chapter called "The Second Agreement: Don't take anything personally".

When you take things personally, then you feel offended, and your reaction is to defend
your beliefs and create conflicts. You make something big out of something so little, because you have the need to be
right and make everybody else wrong. You also try hard to be right by giving them your own opinions.
In the same way, whatever you feel and do is just a projection of you own personal dream, a reflection
of your own agreements. What you say, what you do, and the opinions you have are according to the
agreements you have made- and these opinions have nothing to do with me.

From another page, the main point:

Don't take anything personally because by taking things personally, you set yourself up to suffer for nothing.

I think that no matter what people discuss, if they just respected each other and tried to be tolerant,
a lot more of what was said would be really heard, whether or not it agreed with the opinions
of the person they were speaking to.

Just my two cents for the day. Which, with our economy is worth half a cent probably *lol*

I look forward to your remarks.

Essie

27

To All those on REINCARNATION thread

by RavynX in

jw
friends

risking the flames of the ignorant, let me suggest some reading for all you awakening humans who i have come to love:.

do a search on john edward, he has a site but i am not sure if it is johnedward.com or .org, and he is also on the sci-fi channel(cable tv in usa) and has a site on their page too.

i recommend getting one of his books and watching his show.

Esmeralda

Why do those who espouse the religion of science develop as rabid a conversion style as JWs in many
cases?

Bravo, Redhorsewoman! This is the point I was trying to make (badly, I think LOL) in the other
thread.

I extend that past science to anyone with a specific, strong opinion who have been JW's
in the past: they seem to carry that "I'm right, anyone who disagrees doesn't know the facts"
way of thinking.

Life is all about respect and tolerance...the topic matters little. Without respect, there
can't be an effective exchange of ideas.

I always enjoy your posts :)

Peace,
Essie

The Four Agreements:
Be Impeccable With Your Word
Don't Take Anything Personally
Don't Make Assumptions
Always Do Your Best

124

I Think That I Chose My Parents.

by Englishman in

jw
friends

do you believe in reincarnation?.

i dont think i believe in it in the same way that most believers do, which is that we keep coming back in different fleshly bodies until we have achieved perfection.. i do, however, strongly suspect that we may well be spirit creatures who find it necessary to inhabit a fleshly body from time to time, and that this entails us having to leave behind most of our past memories.. i say most memories, because many people seem to have some vestigal recollections that don`t seem to fit in with earthly experiences.. i`m pretty sure that i chose my parents!

i have a recollection of being shown a young and kind couple through some form of astral telescope and choosing to become their son.

Esmeralda

Hi Rem,

I appreciate your thoughtful response. I just have a few comments to make about it.

What makes me feel sick is when I see ignorance – just
like I think you might feel frustrated inside because your sister believes all of that JW
garbage. Now I don’t know if you feel that way or not, but I have a hard time believing that
you think her beliefs are A-OK.

My problem with my sister isn't necessarily in that I disagree with her beliefs: it's in the fact
that while I respect them and would coexist with them in our relationship, she can not do the
same for me. Again, the issue is respect and tolerance.

The problem here is that the opinions that are being proposed on
this thread are uninformed opinions. There is such a thing is fact and fiction –
certain things are factually correct and are
supported by evidence and others are not.

There were those, in time past who insisted there was scientific evidence that the world was flat. When
they were told otherwise, they declared the idea the concept of the ignorant. This isn't a situation
that can be completely explained as simply as knowing that two plus two always equal four.

Isn't it just a little bit arrogant (and I'm not singling you out, Rem, I am applying this in general
to anyone who calls the beliefs of another ignorant) to think that anyone who doesn't believe our 'reality' or our 'fact'
over 'fiction' in these philosophical matters is uninformed? Because this is exactly what they are, philosophical. There is no formula to totally explain every occurrance in human life, and I'm glad about that. Otherwise I'd feel like my future was already written.

Also, I didn't, at any point say that I wouldn't accept a scientific reason for things (I'm pulling
an example out of my hat here, so don't jump on me y'all *LOL*) example: near death experiences
being a biological subconscious reaction explainable by biochemistry (I'm not saying they are or aren't,
again my opinion isn't the point here). I would be open to considering all information on the matter before
I come to my own decision on it. Then, I would hold my opinion whether or not it was the scientifically
popular one, because it is the right one for me. Just as you must choose the right belief system for
yourself.

I just wish that you could say something like, 'I believe this to be so, and this is the reason, (insert
evidence here) but I respect your beliefs without needing to declare you ignorant for holding
them.'

I am open minded: to science, to less explainable phenomena, to lots of things. That to me
is the greatest luxury of no longer being one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I don't have to have
all the answers, for myself, or anyone else. That is very freeing.

Thank you for the interesting exchange, I look forward to future posts from you. We may continue
to have differing opinions on this subject, but we have made each other think today, I believe, and that is always a good thing.

Es

The Four Agreements:
Be Impeccable With Your Word
Don't Take Anything Personally
Don't Make Assumptions
Always Do Your Best

124

I Think That I Chose My Parents.

by Englishman in

jw
friends

do you believe in reincarnation?.

i dont think i believe in it in the same way that most believers do, which is that we keep coming back in different fleshly bodies until we have achieved perfection.. i do, however, strongly suspect that we may well be spirit creatures who find it necessary to inhabit a fleshly body from time to time, and that this entails us having to leave behind most of our past memories.. i say most memories, because many people seem to have some vestigal recollections that don`t seem to fit in with earthly experiences.. i`m pretty sure that i chose my parents!

i have a recollection of being shown a young and kind couple through some form of astral telescope and choosing to become their son.

Esmeralda

To Rem:

I get a sick feeling while reading some of these posts because it just provides even more evidence of how gullible
we can be.

Why does reading differing opinions make you feel sick? Is it that important for everyone to share
your viewpoint?

I guess it makes people feel good or special

This is an assumption on your part. Can you know, for certain, how I feel unless you ask me? These experiences
have made me feel neither different, good, nor special. They just occurred.

You put everyone who responded to this thread into groups: believers and nonbelievers. That sounds like
JW reasoning to me. You have all the reasons to justify your beliefs, not allowing room for others
to believe differently, or, of course, they must be wrong. Which is shown in this quote:

And once someone brings up doubt or scientific research on the subject that does not coincide with that belief, that
person is castigated as if there is something wrong with him! You only allow information that affirms your beliefs, but don’t
take into account evidence that shows flaws in the belief.

Castigated? You just said before that reading my beliefs, and those of others in this thread made you sick. Isn't
that you, castigating the rest of us? I am not saying you're wrong. I didn't say Jan was wrong. I just said
our opinions differ and we should be able to express that without being disrespectful to each other.

I respect your opinion, as I have said to Jan and would say to all the others who view things more
scientifically. To me, this thread is not even about the topic of esp or whatever anymore.

To me this thread has become a prime example of intolerance for the beliefs of others, when
they differ from your own. I will not participate in such a debate over who has more evidence and
such, because everyone's reality is different. You've surely heard the phrase "Your focus determines your
reality." That quote was restated to me by my neurologist, who I assure you is probably the most
single-mindedly scientific gentleman I have ever met.

I am simply saying that I respect you and wish that you could express your varying opinion without telling
anyone that they 'make you sick'.

If I wanted to be among people who believed that way, I would go
back to the Kingdom Hall, and to my family. Instead I am seeking a life of tolerance: where I don't
need to be right, and my opinion is no more, or less valid than my fellowmans.

If we all believed the same things, the world would be dreadfully boring. Diversity is what makes things
interesting. Thank you for taking the time to share your viewpoint with us.

Have a peaceful day :)

Essie

The Four Agreements:
Be Impeccable With Your Word
Don't Take Anything Personally
Don't Make Assumptions
Always Do Your Best

124

I Think That I Chose My Parents.

by Englishman in

jw
friends

do you believe in reincarnation?.

i dont think i believe in it in the same way that most believers do, which is that we keep coming back in different fleshly bodies until we have achieved perfection.. i do, however, strongly suspect that we may well be spirit creatures who find it necessary to inhabit a fleshly body from time to time, and that this entails us having to leave behind most of our past memories.. i say most memories, because many people seem to have some vestigal recollections that don`t seem to fit in with earthly experiences.. i`m pretty sure that i chose my parents!

i have a recollection of being shown a young and kind couple through some form of astral telescope and choosing to become their son.

Esmeralda

Jan,

I respect your opinion, because it is just that: your viewpoint. I also respect Wendy's, those
of all the others who participated in this thread, and even my own. Because we are all individuals
and no two people will agree completely on life experiences and their significance.

I noticed this comment that you made:

but when it comes down to it: it's just fantasies without foundation in facts.

Even if it is fiction in the end (which I don't personally believe, but anyway...) I prefer it to the cold
sterility of pure science. Emotion is what sets humans apart, and I am not ashamed to feel them. I don't need to have
to explain and justify every single thing that I feel to others. I don't need approval or validation for my emotions.

I just wonder...why you need to keep arguing for the sole purpose of proving that you're right and
everyone else is wrong? Isn't it enough that you know, in your own mind that your view is the right one for you?

I'm sure you'll have quite a bit to say in reply. I just wanted to give you something to think about today.

With respect,
Es

The Four Agreements:
Be Impeccable With Your Word
Don't Take Anything Personally
Don't Make Assumptions
Always Do Your Best

35

Feeling desperate................

by nicolaou in

jw
friends

please listen.

im not the first to go through this, i wont be the last.. i was raised in the truth as a result of my mum starting a study when i was 4 years old.

that was in 1968. the hysteria of a 1975/armageddon was just beginning to take root and the sister who studied with my mum was 100% sure of it.

Esmeralda

Nic...

First of all, *hug*

You asked:"What do I do? Everyone that ever meant anything to me is still in the ‘Truth’.
I have never felt more alone."

Please realize that while you may feel alone, you are not truly alone. We are listening, and even though
we are limited by being able to offer you words on a screen, there are real people behind those
words, and we all hurt with you in your pain.

I think that all you can do now is to take things one step at a time. If you worry about everything that could
happen, it will cloud your resolve to listen to your own heart.

You may very well lose a lot of the people in your life by leaving the organization. But if your family
is anything like mine, you will realize that it can sometimes be a blessing in disguise. That if you tried
to assert your newfound thinking abilities with them still in the picture to a large degree, you wouldn't
get very far. They'd stomp every new discovery out with the soles of their sensible Field Service shoes.

I wish I could offer more than understanding. I wish that I could spare you going through this
experience that so many of us have suffered through. All I can tell you is that you can, and WILL
get through it. Take things one step at a time, and remember to be true to yourself.

You may have moments where you think it'd just be easier to 'go along' with keeping up the facade
for the sake of your family. But I warn you, doing that takes an incredible toll on your soul.

Please be kind to yourself. Keep your gaze straight out in front of you and remember that while
the life you knew may be ending, you have the freedom of mind now to build your future from the ground
up to be exactly what you want, with your own two hands.

*hugs* keep posting, and have courage! You're not alone.

Esmeralda

The Four Agreements:
Be Impeccable With Your Word
Don't Take Anything Personally
Don't Make Assumptions
Always Do Your Best

11

Elders/former Elders, help with this?

by wasasister in

jw
friends

actually, i don't care if you ever were an elder if you can find the appropriate reference in the wt for the following situation:.

with all the discussion lately about the need for "two witnesses" to make an accusation valid, i've been thinking about divorce (and ultimately, remarriage) on the grounds of adultery.

in most cases, an adulterous mate does not commit the deed in public.

Esmeralda

Hi Was :)

I want to respond to this post in e mail. Would you please send me your current e mail addy?

Mine is still the same: [email protected]

thanks
Essie