Posts by neverendingjourney

33

IN SEARCH OF CHRISTIAN FREEDOM - Ray Franz

by compound complex in

dear friends, .

some have expressed interest in the above title and their wish to have it for themselves.

the chapter of particular importance to many of us is "legalism - opponent of christian freedom.

neverendingjourney

I've already read Combating Cult Mind Control, Crisis of Conscience and Apocalypse Delayed.

I picked up In Search of Christian Freedom about a month ago. I'm about 430 pages (12 chapters) into it so far, and I've got about another 300 pages to go. It's been an enlightening read so far. Not that there's been a lot of "new" there that I didn't already know, but Franz's countless examples have helped me see the big picture a little more clearly.

Crisis of Conscience was half memoir, half Watchtower critique. It was also half the size of ISOCF. Franz still had a lot to get off his chest, and he does so in his second book.

What has really stood out to me is the countless of examples of double standards that have been applied throughout WT history. The picture that emerges is one of a religious organization concerned first and foremost with glorifying, protecting, and strengthening itself. Religious doctrines, policies, and teachings are then massaged in accordance with this primary goal. Of course, I had suspected this was the case for a very long time, but I have never been in a position to be able to verify that with my own eyes. Ray Franz does the filling-in for me and leaves no doubt that the WT was and is a religion, like most other denominations, interested in solidifying its ecclesiastical authority over its followers first. The well-being of its "rank and file" members is more of an afterthought.

10

Any good Russell or Rutherford biographies you could recommend?

by neverendingjourney in

i've read a few of the more popular books referenced on this forum.

i've read coc and apocalypse delayed, among others.

i'm currently reading in search of christian freedom.

neverendingjourney

Thanks. I'll put these on my to-read list.

Have you read The Four President's of the Watchtower Society? The title seems to suggest it's the type of book I'm looking for, but not sure whether it's worth the time.

10

Any good Russell or Rutherford biographies you could recommend?

by neverendingjourney in

i've read a few of the more popular books referenced on this forum.

i've read coc and apocalypse delayed, among others.

i'm currently reading in search of christian freedom.

neverendingjourney

I've read a few of the more popular books referenced on this forum. I've read CoC and Apocalypse Delayed, among others. I'm currently reading In Search of Christian Freedom. Despite reading these books and hundreds of threads on JWD, I still don't feel like I have a great feel for early JW history. I talk to an inactive friend who often asks me questions about early church history I have trouble answering.

I'm looking to read good biographies on Russell and Rutherford. Can anyone recommend good reads along those lines? Thanks.

21

The FIVE exciting Watchtower Presidential Eras

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

charles t. russell era (1879-1916)date: late 1800's.

okay, july 1879 if you want to be picky.. current religious views: many apocalyptic leanings, prompting the origin of several major eclectic religious groups claiming that god had rejected the mainstream christian churches for their apostasy in the fourth century, and that he has now chosen a new prophet, a spokesman, a faithful messenger to re-educate the world as to the truths of the bible, long-lost and unattainable by any normal human being.

to gain eternal life, man must listen to the new gospel of this messenger(s).. this century sees the birth of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints (mormons), adventism and its various offshoots (including jehovah's witnesses), christian science, christadelphians and other smaller groups, each one claiming a modern-day prophet and new or once-forgotten revelations to the populace, many of whom we find shopping for new ideas, yet disenchanted with the churches.. scenario: a young man who can't understand theology from a historical development point of view begins to feel that he is the "seventh messenger" (rev.

neverendingjourney

One more thing on your 5 stages of your typical religious sect:the JWs have been somewhat immune to this curve (compare them with the Mormons, for instance) because of the revolving-door nature of the religion. With its extraordinarily-high defection rate combined with fresh recruits (mostly from the developing world and immigrant pools in developed nations), the WT virtually replaces its membership every few decades.

What is a old and stale religious movement in the U.S. is a (relatively) new and exciting sect in Latin America and Africa. If the JWs were primarily an American relgion with the roots of your average member extending back into the group several generations, they'd be much further along in the natural progression of such religious groups.

66

Did the WT totally "luck out" with World War I starting in 1914?

by lepermessiah in

jw
friends

my family is still fixated on the 1914 date, simply because world war i started that year.. i told them i will agree it is a significant year in world history, but that the 1914 date as presented by jw's is based on lies and charlatanry.. i said "i think the wt really lucked out with 1914 with wwi starting that year - it keeps most jw's stuck on that date" .

the standard answer is "well, that was the year everything went haywire"...... let the circular reasoning continue .

.

neverendingjourney

They paint it as this serene, peaceful time when all was right with the world. And then! Satan was let loose on the earth and he obviously landed in Europe where he possessed someone to shoot the Archduke Ferdinand and then all hell broke loose.

Nevermind the fact that Ferdinand was shot in June 1914 whereas the WT said that Gentile Times would end in October 1914.

The real genius in Satan's actions was retroactively killing Ferdinand 4 months prior to his being "set loose".

66

Did the WT totally "luck out" with World War I starting in 1914?

by lepermessiah in

jw
friends

my family is still fixated on the 1914 date, simply because world war i started that year.. i told them i will agree it is a significant year in world history, but that the 1914 date as presented by jw's is based on lies and charlatanry.. i said "i think the wt really lucked out with 1914 with wwi starting that year - it keeps most jw's stuck on that date" .

the standard answer is "well, that was the year everything went haywire"...... let the circular reasoning continue .

.

neverendingjourney

The "beginning" and "end" of wars is construct conceived by historians to organize data. I had a professor in college who insisted that the World War I and World War II were not separate wars but one continuous war with a prolonged cease fire. It's pointless to argue about when the conflict we now refer to as "World War I" actually began. There is no right or wrong answer. There might be a consensus among historians, but no "true" date you can discover.

66

Did the WT totally "luck out" with World War I starting in 1914?

by lepermessiah in

jw
friends

my family is still fixated on the 1914 date, simply because world war i started that year.. i told them i will agree it is a significant year in world history, but that the 1914 date as presented by jw's is based on lies and charlatanry.. i said "i think the wt really lucked out with 1914 with wwi starting that year - it keeps most jw's stuck on that date" .

the standard answer is "well, that was the year everything went haywire"...... let the circular reasoning continue .

.

neverendingjourney

1799, 1874, 1914, 1919, 1925...if you keep attaching great significance to a bunch of years, eventually SOMETHING is going to happen to make it seem you were right.

Imagine the WT had predicted Armageddon would come in 2001. As a result, the faithful today praise their leaders for predicting 9/11 despite the fact that the original prediction called for the end of the world, not a catastrophic terrorist attack. That's in essence what happened with 1914.

21

The FIVE exciting Watchtower Presidential Eras

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

charles t. russell era (1879-1916)date: late 1800's.

okay, july 1879 if you want to be picky.. current religious views: many apocalyptic leanings, prompting the origin of several major eclectic religious groups claiming that god had rejected the mainstream christian churches for their apostasy in the fourth century, and that he has now chosen a new prophet, a spokesman, a faithful messenger to re-educate the world as to the truths of the bible, long-lost and unattainable by any normal human being.

to gain eternal life, man must listen to the new gospel of this messenger(s).. this century sees the birth of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints (mormons), adventism and its various offshoots (including jehovah's witnesses), christian science, christadelphians and other smaller groups, each one claiming a modern-day prophet and new or once-forgotten revelations to the populace, many of whom we find shopping for new ideas, yet disenchanted with the churches.. scenario: a young man who can't understand theology from a historical development point of view begins to feel that he is the "seventh messenger" (rev.

neverendingjourney

Interesting thoughts, Randy.

There is not right and wrong way to classify WT history. These are just tools to help us mentally organize large amounts of data and understand patterns in the development of the group.

Personally, I find it more useful to think of WT history along the following lines:

1. The Russell Era 1879-1916

2. Rutherford Era 1916-1942

3. Knorr/Franz Era 1942-1980

4. Governing Body Era 1980-Present

I see the first two eras as you do, as the organization was defined almost exclusively by the men who held the presidency. I would, however, lump Knorr and Franz in together since you really had two men who steered the course for the religion in the ensuing era. Knorr was the boss; the bureaucrat/administrator who oversaw the expansion of the WT organization into a global empire, but Freddy had virtual free reign to craft the religion's theology. Knorr had veto power, but he seldom exercised it. Knorr controlled the administration; Freddy controlled the theology.

The way I see it, this arrangement continued up until Knorr's death, even though the GB officially took control before his passing. However, due to the strength of their personalities, Knorr and Franz continued to be the religion's leaders…that is until 1980. By that point, Knorr had passed away and the religion had been thoroughly embarrassed by Freddy's 1975 prophetic failure. It was at that point that the GB asserted itself and Freddy lost the powerful role of quasi-leader he once held. Freddy continued to be influential, but it was in 1980 that the GB steered a new course for the religion. Dissent was quashed with an iron fist. The era of singular leadership was over. The dawn of the rule-by-committee era had dawned.

From 1980 forward there was a steady move to erase all semblance of a sole leader. This move was further cemented when the GB resigned from their individual posts on the legal organizations, thus distancing themselves from their historic role in leading the religious group. This era has been characterized by a tremendous push for uniformity and premium on maintaining the status quo. Like a large publicly-traded corporation that has reached its peak, the GB has focused on maintaining its empire and attempting to avoid its eventual decline.

68

Flirting - WT style (Sept 15 WT)

by undercover in

in the september 15th wt koolaid edition, the study article "christian unity glorifies god" in paragraph 10 this is stated:.

"the immoral world in which we live threatens our unity.

people joke about fornication, sing about it, watch it for entertainment, and practice it either in secret or openly.

neverendingjourney

This is a scene played out everyday in offices all across the world.

Ahh, I remember this kind of advice fondly. It trains people to be socially-awkward.

It reminds me of when I was 22 years old working in an office environment. I had been recently hired and two married female coworkers (gasp!) invited me to a baseball game. They were being nice, of course, trying to get to know the new guy, but I panicked. I can't imagine how ridiculous I must have come across as. I first told them I would go and I spent the rest of the work day coming up with an excuse to back out. I viewed the simple invitation as if there were some sexual significance to it.

This kind of warped view of sexuality, unfortunately, was widespread among JWs of my generation. I remember a conversation with some JWs I grew up with where the women all unanimously stated that they would refuse to go to lunch alone with their male boss . That kind of thing happens all the time in my line of work. Men and women take business trips together and even (double gasp!) spend time alone with one another. Amazingly, most people are capable of controlling their sexual impulses and treating one another with respect.

In the 5 years that I've been away from JWism, I had almost forgotten about this obsession with sex. Recently, an inactive female JW called me up. I was in the middle of watching a movie, and I didn't feel like pausing for an extended conversation, so I invited her over to watch it with me just to be polite. She said no and I thought that was the end of it. About a week later she called to confront me about the lack of respect I had shown her by inviting her over to my house when I was alone. It dawned on me at that point that she equated my invitation with an invitation to have sex. That didn’t even cross my mind. In the years since I've stopped going to meetings, I've spent a lot of time alone with women to where being alone with a woman has lost the taboo connotation that the WT attaches to it.

I'm just glad I no longer live in that world.

44

Is It Possible That Obama Is The Antichrist?

by minimus in

jw
friends

.

neverendingjourney

Is It Possible That Obama Is The Antichrist?

No. The Antichrist is white.