Posts by neverendingjourney

16

NPR News: Lack Of Education Leads To Lost Dreams And Low Income For Many Jehovah's Witnesses

by breakfast of champions in

http://www.npr.org/2017/02/19/510585965/poor-education-leads-to-lost-dreams-and-low-income-for-many-jehovahs-witnesses.

can't comment on this right now because i'm heading off to school .

transcript:.

neverendingjourney

My oldest son (degree in computer science) is a ministerial servant in a congregation where the majority of those his age have degrees. It's the "hot" congregation in our district.

In my experience, these places usually don't last very long. They're usually done in by a combination of JWs waking up and leaving and outside pressure exerted from embittered forces who aren't going to stand by idly while other JWs operate happily with impunity when they and their families were forced to pay the cost of no college in order to maintain good standing in the organization (If my kids couldn't go to college, it's not fair for others who did go to college to maintain their privileges).

4

NPR: Lack Of Education Leads To Lost Dreams And Low Income For Many Jehovah's Witnesses

by silentbuddha in

i'm just going to leave this here.. http://www.npr.org/2017/02/19/510585965/poor-education-leads-to-lost-dreams-and-low-income-for-many-jehovahs-witnesses?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20170219.

neverendingjourney

@Magnum

Welding is not unlike painting. You either have a skill for it or you don't. Some people who don't have a natural talent can learn techniques to help them become adequate and some people will never be able to draw anything more elaborate than stick figures.

There was a student there (ex-con) who had an incredible talent for welding. Within 3 or 4 months he was welding every alloy they put in front of him on every kind of surface imaginable. I was just so-so at it. There was another guy there who was a janitor during the day and was going to the school 4 hours a day, every day, after work. He could never get to the point where he could string together a bead on the easiest flat surface. The teacher bullied him and made it seem like it was his own fault. The poor guy appeared to have an IQ just north of mentally retarded and I don't mean that in a mean way.

A lot of young JWs from my generation got taken in by IT schools that promised to prepare you for professional IT certifications yet were unable to deliver the goods. There was usually weasel language there where they didn't guarantee results. There's a whole industry out there of schools that receive accreditations required to participate in the student loan program although the results just aren't there.

I remember reading that the Obama administration had begun efforts to crack down on these institutions, requiring that they meet certain post-graduation employment standards in order to continue being eligible for the student loan program. There was a huge backlash and lobbying effort against it. I'm not sure where those efforts ended up.

With respect to the trades, that's what I'm seeing now with JWs from my parents' generation. Men who never thought they'd grow old still working in manual labor. These jobs typically don't offer health insurance, much less a 401(k) or a pension. My parents subsist on social security alone. It's sad.

4

NPR: Lack Of Education Leads To Lost Dreams And Low Income For Many Jehovah's Witnesses

by silentbuddha in

i'm just going to leave this here.. http://www.npr.org/2017/02/19/510585965/poor-education-leads-to-lost-dreams-and-low-income-for-many-jehovahs-witnesses?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20170219.

neverendingjourney

I was a good Witness boy and shunned college in favor of a 6-month trade school. I responded to an ad in the paper for a welding school. I was supposed to graduate with the skills to make an above-average wage.

The cost was something like $10,000 in 20-years-ago money. I borrowed most of it using federally backed student loans.

In reality, I didn't learn half of the skills I needed. When the six months were up, I got a pat on the back, a cheap diploma and none of the skills I needed. I'd been conned. I couldn't get a job with what I'd learned. But what mattered, I guess, is that I didn't go to college.

I naively told this story repeatedly to Witnesses and people usually got very uncomfortable when I did. It went against the grain of what "Mother" was teaching. With time, I realized that this was a common experience, but one most people didn't openly talk about. The fact is, most of these trade schools are there to make money for the owners who take advantage of the federal student loan system to make money off the gullible.

The welding school went out of business about 5 years after I attended. I later went to college and graduated from a real university. The money I'd borrowed to go to the welding school got added to the mix of loans I took out for going to college. It all got consolidated into one big pot that I finally paid off last year. The loans from that school followed me for 20 years. Since they were federally backed loans, I would have never been able to outrun them.

But the Society didn't care. The men in the ivory tower thought pushing people into trade schools made a lot of sense and weren't going to be bothered investigating the ramifications of that message.

89

Trump Voters, Is This What You Voted For?

by Village Idiot in

all that talk about hillary clinton's unsecured e-mails?

read the following:.

"deagazio posted additional photos from the weekend, including one of his dining companions kissing trump on the cheek, a selfie with white house strategist steve bannon and another selfie identifying a man named rick who he says is responsible for carrying the nuclear “football,” which allows the president to authorize a nuclear attack while away from the white house.. "“this is rick,” wrote deagazio.

neverendingjourney

Neverendingjourney, only some of Trump voters were White Nationalists and assorted racists. I think the issue is more complex.

I didn't say these people are racists or white nationalists. You can be motivated by a desire to see far fewer immigrants in the country without being a neo-Nazi. You can be kind to people of all races on an individual level while supporting a candidate who literally launched his campaign by claiming that Mexico doesn't send good people like those in his rallies, but rather sends a bunch of criminals, drug dealers, and rapists.

89

Trump Voters, Is This What You Voted For?

by Village Idiot in

all that talk about hillary clinton's unsecured e-mails?

read the following:.

"deagazio posted additional photos from the weekend, including one of his dining companions kissing trump on the cheek, a selfie with white house strategist steve bannon and another selfie identifying a man named rick who he says is responsible for carrying the nuclear “football,” which allows the president to authorize a nuclear attack while away from the white house.. "“this is rick,” wrote deagazio.

neverendingjourney

Trump won because the left lost the middle because they are endlessly trying to tell people what they really think and that they are nazis.

Right, because that's what I said. That Trump voters are Nazis.

And the Left didn't lose the middle. Clinton and Obama's 2012 totals were roughly the same. Clinton just had her support in the "wrong" areas.

89

Trump Voters, Is This What You Voted For?

by Village Idiot in

all that talk about hillary clinton's unsecured e-mails?

read the following:.

"deagazio posted additional photos from the weekend, including one of his dining companions kissing trump on the cheek, a selfie with white house strategist steve bannon and another selfie identifying a man named rick who he says is responsible for carrying the nuclear “football,” which allows the president to authorize a nuclear attack while away from the white house.. "“this is rick,” wrote deagazio.

neverendingjourney

Trump's core supporters represent a small but vocal faction in this country who have absolutely zero interest in living in a country with Democratic (with a big "D") leadership. Call it Obama's America for short. They'd rather see the country burn than see an emerging multi-ethnic, socially liberal, international American society. We're talking about 25-30% of the voting public.

There has also been an effort over on the Right over the past 30 years to delegitimize any governmental body or institution controlled by Democrats. For example, we've seen screeds against "liberal, activist judges," the Clinton impeachment, lock-step opposition to anything Obama proposed, that has culminated in the rise of a right-wing entertainment-media complex that has supplanted traditional news among that crowd.

For those core Trump supporters, it was never about Hillary's emails or local control of government versus control at a national level. It's about the changing face of the nation. They would rather see the country burn than see themselves lose the culture wars.

The reasons for Trump's victory are much more complex than that. These core Trump supporters alone could not get Trump elected, but the Right in America has been responsible for the delegitimization of our political institutions over the past few decades that has resulted in traditional Republicans completely losing control of their party. Has it been worth it? A lot of my Republican friends are torn on this issue, but these are people who didn't vote for Trump or who voted for him despite serious reservations.

When you go scorched-earth, you get to rule over exactly that: a country whose political institutions have been scorched to the ground.

35

"would you drink a glass of water if it had just a tiny bit of poison in it?"

by stuckinarut2 in

no doubt we have all heard that well used "illustration" in public talks etc over the years:.

"if you were handed a glass of water that looked pure, but were told it has just a tiny drop of poison in it, would you drink it?".

the society has used that illustration at length to say we should avoid all influences of every part of the world.. but, as we know, the society has had a track record of errors, false ideas and doctrines.

neverendingjourney

On a side note, always be skeptical of wise old sayings and analogies. They often ring true but can be contradictory and can be used to fit whatever point the speaker is trying to make.

For instance:

Never look a gift horse in the mouth.

Beware of Greeks bearing gifts.

35

"would you drink a glass of water if it had just a tiny bit of poison in it?"

by stuckinarut2 in

no doubt we have all heard that well used "illustration" in public talks etc over the years:.

"if you were handed a glass of water that looked pure, but were told it has just a tiny drop of poison in it, would you drink it?".

the society has used that illustration at length to say we should avoid all influences of every part of the world.. but, as we know, the society has had a track record of errors, false ideas and doctrines.

neverendingjourney

If a rival denomination has flaws it's like a drop of poison in a glass of water you wouldn't want to drink.

If the witnesses have flaws it's like a minor imperfection in a diamond that you need a special tool to see.

It's utter shite.

33

Apparently, William Tyndale was an early J-Dub?

by My Name is of No Consequence in

my wife and son were watching the january broadcast and one of the segments was about william tyndale.

william tyndale was a bible translator in the early 16th century.

i always knew that the org held men like tyndale, john hus and john wycliffe in high regard.

neverendingjourney

No, since 2013, the Faithful Slave was appointed in 1919 and is essentially the Governing Body, not the "anointed remnant". The anointed and the "other sheep" are now together the "domestics".
Matthew 24:45 has now been disconnected with the Parable of the Wheat and the Weeds

Got it. I know the FDS is now only the GB and the anointed have been relegated to a place of unimportance.

But do they have a new position on whether or not there have always been anointed throughout time?

I know in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter, but they used to point to the limited number of anointed as evidence of the nearness of Armageddon. If 1,500 years passed without there being any anointed, the present number of anointed could grow much larger and still sort of make sense within the confines for their crumbling theology.

33

Apparently, William Tyndale was an early J-Dub?

by My Name is of No Consequence in

my wife and son were watching the january broadcast and one of the segments was about william tyndale.

william tyndale was a bible translator in the early 16th century.

i always knew that the org held men like tyndale, john hus and john wycliffe in high regard.

neverendingjourney

Back in the olden days, when they use to teach that there was "always" a "faithful & discreet slave", even in the dark ages, Renaissance, etc.

Is that not the official teaching anymore? What about the parable of the wheat and the weeds Matthew 13 (or whatever it's called in English)?