Posts by neverendingjourney

9

Still Contaminated After All These Years

by new boy in

jw
friends

the contaminantion of years of being a jehovah witness.. it's interesting to see in myself and in many others here how no matter how much we want it or wish it, we will never be able to erase all of the mental contamination.

in one way or another it will always be a part of us.. i've had many friends that have been out for many years say "well i can't do that it just wouldn't be right.

" yes they are still judging themselves and others.

neverendingjourney

I've made this comment on here before, but after being out for seven or eight years I found myself in Spain with some coworkers having a business dinner. My boss wanted to order blood sausage and I felt my heart sink. It was as if I was a JW all over again trying to elegantly weasel my way out of an awkward situation while attempting to minimize the social impact of being, frankly, weird.

Blood is one of the taboos I've yet to break. I just have no desire to eat food made with blood. It doesn't sound appetizing to me and I tend to faint when I have my blood taken, so I've not donated blood either.

But it was a very eerie programmed reaction, even after all those years. I've read scientific articles describing how neural connections are formed in the brain that cause you to react instinctively to certain scenarios, a learned response. There was no reason for me to have the reaction I did other than the fact that I created those connections in my brain all those years ago and simply hadn't exerted the effort to re-train myself how to respond in those situations. On a conscious level, I no longer believe there's anything improper about eating blood.

Even today, I occasionally feel pangs of guilt after a night of heavy drinking. I'm not sure we're ever able to completely shake it off.

42

Elders getting burnt up.

by biblexaminer in

the elders in this area are getting burned out.

i have overheard comments that demonstrate this, but in my dealings with them, i clearly see it.

they can't keep it straight.

neverendingjourney

About 20 years ago I started noticing men who'd otherwise been long-time, professional ministerial servants getting appointed elders. It was surprising to me because prior to that being an elder was a special thing. You really had to live up to a relatively high standard and be seen as a role model.

I think it began as a gap-filling mechanism. The congregations were growing, mainly due to immigration (Witnesses moving to Texas from Latin America). In order to create new congregations they needed more elders. Then it slowly started becoming more commonplace. Men who'd been ministerial servants 10, 15 years, people who nobody really looked up to started getting elevated to elder as other long time elders died or dropped out.

I stopped going to meetings about 11 or 12 years ago. At some point my brother, who couldn't give a 5 minute talk without having me write out the script for him, got promoted to elder. At that point I knew the position had become a farce.

In speaking with the few JWs I remained in contact with, it became clear that the standard had morphed to roughly the following:

Are you a baptized Witness over the age of 19? If so, have you averaged 10 or so hours a month for the past two years? Have you been free from any judicial actions? If yes, congratulations. You're now a ministerial servant! It doesn't even matter if you're an illiterate buffoon.

Have you been a ministerial servant for at least 3 years? Have you been free of judicial actions during that span and averaged roughly 10 hours in field service? Congrats! You're now an elder.

It became as simple as that. There was no subjectivity to it anymore. If you checked the boxes you got promoted. It didn't matter whether you were someone whom the congregation could trust and lean on. They needed bodies and the COs started to enforce the standards vigorously.

A lot of JWs thought this was a good development because it prevented vindictive elders from maintaining blacklists. I think it made the life of the average Witness worse. It can't be encouraging to, for example, be dealing with the death of a loved one only to have elder-buffoon attempt to console you in your time of need.

42

I feel really, really sorry for those born into the Jehovah's Witness religion

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

some facts that make the difference between you and me:.

1 - as a person raised by non jw family, my parents have never loved me based on conditions set out by a group of old men who they don't even know.

how does it feel to know that you are in the unique situation where your parents brought you into the world and said 'i'll show love to you.

neverendingjourney

Damn, Sparky, those are some eerie similarities. I, too, became wrapped up in my career. I'm currently in my late 30s and have a goal of retiring early at exactly the age of 47!

Looking back at it with the benefit of hindsight, I think I ran away from the things I wasn't good at (having relationships in the non-Witness world) and focused on the things I was good at (doing well in school). I left in my mid 20s and now have multiple college degrees, a high-paying job, but no wife or girlfriend.

It turns out the kinds of things that make you a stud JW prospect are the kinds of things normal women find boring and uninteresting. We're all dealing with the aftermath in our own ways.

42

I feel really, really sorry for those born into the Jehovah's Witness religion

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

some facts that make the difference between you and me:.

1 - as a person raised by non jw family, my parents have never loved me based on conditions set out by a group of old men who they don't even know.

how does it feel to know that you are in the unique situation where your parents brought you into the world and said 'i'll show love to you.

neverendingjourney

5 - my parents never put the responsibilities of an adult onto myself as a young child.

My oldest brother bore the heaviest weight in this regard and was the least equipped of the siblings to deal with it. He's a high-functioning alcoholic and has been so for over a decade. I believe that's the mechanism he found most useful to cope with the stress my mother put on his shoulders. In his case it wasn't just WT stuff, but my mom added to that by burdening him with all of her marital problems with my father who was rarely home because of his work.

In my case, I remember being in second grade, having a crush on a girl and thinking "I can't go out with her. She's not a Witness. And besides, it's not like we'll be able to get married any time soon." Those aren't the normal thoughts of an 8 year old. Those are the thoughts of a child who has been trained to live and think like an adult from an early age.

I don't remember ever really being an adolescent. By the time I was 13 I thought of myself as an adult, had adult responsibilities, and behaved like one. It's not a normal, healthy way to grow up.

73

The con is completed - comments from the US branch's LDC chief

by sir82 in

jw
friends

recently attended a special assembly day.. guest speaker was thomas chicky, a member of the us branch committee and the head of the us ldc (which has replaced the rbcs).. the last talk of the day is scheduled for an hour.

it was the usual boring mumbo-jumbo.

he appeared to have blasted through his hour-long outline in just about 45 minutes, so he "treated" us to informal comments on recent developments.. he commented on the new wt complex in fishkill ny.. then he dropped the bomb (well, to anyone with ears and at least 2 functioning synapses).. the following is not a word for quote, but presents the gist of his comments:.

neverendingjourney

One of the most powerful pieces of information I learned during my gradual exit from this religion was the Assembly Hall Deficit Scam where the elders would agree to send the WT money that would create a deficit and would in turn prompt the attendees to cover the shortage.

It's not that the sums of money were that consequential considering the fact that there were usually over 1,000 people in attendance. It's the fact that they treated the flock with such disrespect. They couldn't let them know what was going on. They had to set up a ruse and keep it among the privileged elder class.

That's essentially what I see this as, just on a larger scale. The flock can't be trusted to peek behind the curtain and make the decision to contribute on an informed basis. No, instead you have to set up an elaborate con and keep the true motivations limited to a privileged inner circle.

If the CO or Bethel speaker had been frank and given some insight into the financial condition of the Watchtower I would have been inclined to give even more. I think that would be the case for most people. They're shooting themselves in the foot by carrying on this way, but I don't think they can help it. To the extent that I've had access to people at the higher levels of that organization, it's become clear to me that they viewed the rank and file with contempt. They set up these scams not because it will result in the most money, but because the flock can't be trusted and don't deserve the truth.

29

JW's arrogant as f...?!

by Alostpuppydog in

has anybody else noticed that almost all the jdubs are super arrogant?

i mean even from just the basic ones to especially the elders and the overseers omg.

they act like they are so high and mighty that you should just worship them.

neverendingjourney

When I was in I thought I was smarter than Einstein. Not in an arrogant way, but in a humbling way. As in: Einstein didn't have the privilege of knowing "the truth" but somehow I did. It's easy to see how that same thought process can lead to out-of-control arrogance.

That and the fact that looking back half of those a-holes couldn't make a name for themselves in the real world and abused the JW structure to attain social status and authority. It was usually accompanied by a mean self-esteem problem since deep down they were aware that they could never accomplish much outside of the confines of the JW world and the gullible followers who tolerated their tyranny.

141

Do You Remember When JWs Relished Explaining Their Beliefs?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i bet most witnesses could not explain their blood policy, their understanding of the slave, and even simple biblical doctrines....they are an embarrassment to any old timer..

neverendingjourney

he was trying to tell me how things has changed so much and how progressive the witnesses are.

I got a call from a JW whom I used to be very close friends with. His pitch was: "We have TVs in the Kingdom Hall now! And videos on the society's website and at the assemblies!"

Ah, okay, sign me up then.

The funny thing is, I remember being out in service with him years ago and going on about how "Jehovah's people" didn't need television or radio. Preaching door-to-door like Jesus did was the way to go!

141

Do You Remember When JWs Relished Explaining Their Beliefs?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i bet most witnesses could not explain their blood policy, their understanding of the slave, and even simple biblical doctrines....they are an embarrassment to any old timer..

neverendingjourney

There is very little internal consistency left.

James Penton laments the collapse of the doctrine's internal consistency in Apocalypse Delayed and that was written 30 years ago.

If we take a close look, it started falling apart soon after Knorr took over. Russell and Rutherford set the foundation and they've just been patching holes ever since. Freddie might have gotten a few things in at the last minute (most notably, the blood doctrine), but at some point the religion grew to a certain size where large, wholesale changes were no longer feasible.

39

Where Does It Say JWs Can't Read Pubs By Other Churches?

by Cold Steel in

can jws read publications by other churches?

or by atheists?

i've always heard these are apostate materials.

neverendingjourney

But what fascinates me about the Jehovah's Witnesses is that their faith is so great and their evidence is so sparse.

I used to think the exact same thing about Mormons: gold tablets, convenient visions about polygamy, Jesus preaching to Indians. How can those people believe such nonsense?

The hardest truths to see are often those that are right in front of our noses. How many wives fail to see their husband's infidelity that is obvious to the outside world? How many parents fail to admit that their son who has done multiple stints in prison is a lost cause and a bad person?

I'm nominally an atheist now (the existence or nonexistence of god is no longer a primary concern of mine) and all religions seem absurd to me, albeit some are far stranger than others.

43

If this system goes on.

by karter in

jw
friends

i heard my hard out jw sister say that for the 1st time in many years and i'm hearing more and more jw's saying that.

years ago when i was in they talked about the new system coming any minute..

neverendingjourney

I'm not sure my parents are the type of people who would have saved for retirement had they never become Witnesses, but it certainly didn't help.

My dad just decided to stop working 15 or so years ago in his early 50s. He didn't have a penny saved for retirement but he'd had enough. My mom continues working to this day. My dad eventually starting drawing social security when he turned 62. He's now a few months shy of 70.

My father's health is now such that he probably couldn't work anymore even if he wanted to. In the meantime, I dropped out of JWism in my early 20s and have been laser-focused the past 15 years on building a career.

It's a tough situation. Do I take some of my own resources that I have worked hard to obtain and hand it over to them? In some respects they deserve to reap what they've sown. They'll piss it away on nonsense anyway. On the other hand, they're my parents, I love them, and I don't want to see them struggling.

I've given them tens of thousands of dollars in monetary assistance over the years, and it hasn't really helped. Their house is still filthy and they continue making stupid decisions in every walk of life. At least JWism has provided a distraction.