Posts by neverendingjourney

51

Drop Off in Mentioning 1914

by steve2 in

videos from the summer jw conventions ("be courageous) show the "urgency" about the end racheted up several notches.

paranoia rules supreme!.

curiously, though, very few, if any, statements in the convention program about 1914 and the overlapping generations.

neverendingjourney

I'm pushing 40. I have a nephew who is 16 years old. If I talked to him about 1914 and the role it played in not wanting to be a JW anymore, he'd look at me like I was crazy.

It'd be the same look I would have given an "apostate" had he talked to me about 1975 when I was 16 in the mid-90s.

This stuff is cyclical.

In the:

1910s they had to deal with the fact that 1914 didn't see the conclusion of the Great Tribulation.

1920s they had to deal with the failure of 1925 as the date when Old Testament "princes" would be resurrected

1940s they had to deal with the failure of WWII to bring Armageddon and Rutherford's statement that there were only "months" left

1970s they had to deal with the failure of 1975 as the end of the sixth creative day

1990s they had to deal with the failure of the "generation" of "seventy to eighty years" being a deadline for Armageddon

There have always been two generations present at the local Kingdom Hall: those old enough to have already undergone a major prophetic failure and those young enough (or new enough) to be clinging to a new prophetic deadline that hasn't yet collapsed.

15

Random Thought on Drugs/Tobacco Being Sinful Under JW Doctrine

by neverendingjourney in

jw
friends

a friend of mine was telling me about her recent trip to peru.

she said she had trouble with the altitude in certain areas of peru but the locals offered her a tea derived from the coca leaf and that helped tremendously with her symptoms.. i began to think about how i would have handled the situation as a jw given that coca contains an alkaloid that is used to produce cocaine.

in its natural form, the content is very low and the locals use it as a stimulant similar to coffee.. however, as a jw i would have probably refused to drink it viewing it as something similar to a product derived from tobacco leaves.

neverendingjourney

About the coca leaf thing. I have been to Bolivia, and was offered coca leaf tea as a drink while eating lunch in an elders home. I questioned him about it and he likened it to taking aspirin. Coca leaves have been used by the Indians for many years, and he certainly had no problem with it.

Interesting. Maybe it's like blood fractions. A little coca is okay, but too much coca in the form of cocaine and it's no longer okay.

15

Random Thought on Drugs/Tobacco Being Sinful Under JW Doctrine

by neverendingjourney in

jw
friends

a friend of mine was telling me about her recent trip to peru.

she said she had trouble with the altitude in certain areas of peru but the locals offered her a tea derived from the coca leaf and that helped tremendously with her symptoms.. i began to think about how i would have handled the situation as a jw given that coca contains an alkaloid that is used to produce cocaine.

in its natural form, the content is very low and the locals use it as a stimulant similar to coffee.. however, as a jw i would have probably refused to drink it viewing it as something similar to a product derived from tobacco leaves.

neverendingjourney

So many JWs are overweight, live mostly sedentary lifestyles and consume far more than healthy amounts of alcohol. Prescription meds are consumed like tic tacs.

A few obese elders and regular pioneers immediately come to mind. Fat, lazy, gluttonous, but there's no real precedent in the religion to discipline JWs for gluttony (that I'm aware of). They'd lose a significant portion of their regular pioneer base if they treated gluttony the same way they do other major "sins."

I've heard that prescription opiates are a big problem in WT Land now. It's not surprising. JWs are part of the community at large and it's a huge problem in poor, rural America, where JWs are the strongest.

15

Random Thought on Drugs/Tobacco Being Sinful Under JW Doctrine

by neverendingjourney in

jw
friends

a friend of mine was telling me about her recent trip to peru.

she said she had trouble with the altitude in certain areas of peru but the locals offered her a tea derived from the coca leaf and that helped tremendously with her symptoms.. i began to think about how i would have handled the situation as a jw given that coca contains an alkaloid that is used to produce cocaine.

in its natural form, the content is very low and the locals use it as a stimulant similar to coffee.. however, as a jw i would have probably refused to drink it viewing it as something similar to a product derived from tobacco leaves.

neverendingjourney

It's my understanding that medically prescribed marijuana is OK to use -- PRESCRIBED, as in a Doctor.

I'm curious about this. If this is true, this would be a big deviation from the JW organization I used to be a part of.

15

Random Thought on Drugs/Tobacco Being Sinful Under JW Doctrine

by neverendingjourney in

jw
friends

a friend of mine was telling me about her recent trip to peru.

she said she had trouble with the altitude in certain areas of peru but the locals offered her a tea derived from the coca leaf and that helped tremendously with her symptoms.. i began to think about how i would have handled the situation as a jw given that coca contains an alkaloid that is used to produce cocaine.

in its natural form, the content is very low and the locals use it as a stimulant similar to coffee.. however, as a jw i would have probably refused to drink it viewing it as something similar to a product derived from tobacco leaves.

neverendingjourney

All based on perception. Why would a tea from tobacco leaves be considered wrong? I'm not even sure most JDrones would follow you down that path. It's just tea...

I suspect you're right, but it's because as JWs we were taught to turn off our logical thinking and accept JW doctrine unquestioningly and become unwavering advocates for JW teachings. If there hasn't been a WT article condemning it, then why worry about it?

I was not your typical JW in that regard. I wanted things to make sense. That's what eventually led me to wake up. There were far too many things that didn't add up and I couldn't keep repressing the doubts.

For example, I remember panicking about dental procedures because my gums might bleed and I might unwillingly swallow my own blood. I don't know of too many other witnesses who even gave that a second thought.

15

Random Thought on Drugs/Tobacco Being Sinful Under JW Doctrine

by neverendingjourney in

jw
friends

a friend of mine was telling me about her recent trip to peru.

she said she had trouble with the altitude in certain areas of peru but the locals offered her a tea derived from the coca leaf and that helped tremendously with her symptoms.. i began to think about how i would have handled the situation as a jw given that coca contains an alkaloid that is used to produce cocaine.

in its natural form, the content is very low and the locals use it as a stimulant similar to coffee.. however, as a jw i would have probably refused to drink it viewing it as something similar to a product derived from tobacco leaves.

neverendingjourney

A friend of mine was telling me about her recent trip to Peru. She said she had trouble with the altitude in certain areas of Peru but the locals offered her a tea derived from the coca leaf and that helped tremendously with her symptoms.

I began to think about how I would have handled the situation as a JW given that coca contains an alkaloid that is used to produce cocaine. In its natural form, the content is very low and the locals use it as a stimulant similar to coffee.

However, as a JW I would have probably refused to drink it viewing it as something similar to a product derived from tobacco leaves. I'm not sure if there's an official WT policy on this tea, but my instinct tells me there probably is.

So that led me to the next thought, prescription pain medications are often opiates and differ from heroin only in their dosage (from what I understand). However, they are quite common and I'm not aware of the WT having any doctrines against the use of prescription opiates.

If prescription opiates are okay, why would medicinal marijuana not be okay? If marijuana were legalized, would the JWs allow its use if recommended by a physician? Almost certainly not. It seems they're backed into an illogical corner on that one and it's not something I had ever spent much time thinking about.

What's the line and when does a substance go from being okay to sinful because it harms the body? What is it about drug use that's sinful? Obviously, the Bible doesn't address marijuana, cocaine or any other modern drugs. Is it the illegality? If so, why is tobacco sinful? Is it its long-term health consequences? If so, why aren't all-you-can-eat buffets sinful?

This was the kind of thing I would just let "Mother" decide when I was a JW because the GB is God's channel or whatever, but it doesn't make any sense when you start trying to break it down.

Anyway, just a random thought that entered my mind over a decade after I stopped being a JW.

65

Lloyd Evans' New Book - Is It Really Necessary?

by pale.emperor in

jw
friends

so lloyd evans will shortly be releasing his new book how to leave the jehovah's witnesses.

i do enjoy his rebuttals and the stuff he manages to get hold of and leak.

but i'm struggling to understand what he could possibly write to merit a whole book.. all info on how to leave is right here on this forum.

neverendingjourney

I stopped going to meetings in 2005. I bought Crisis of Conscience in 2007.

The first few JW-related books I read were excellent: CoC, Apocalypse Delayed, In Search of Christian Freedom, The Gentile Times Reconsidered. It started going downhill from there.

The last JW-related book I read was something called the Four Presidents of the Watchtower Society. It was written anonymously and contained various unsubstantiated allegations. It read like a giant blog post from a random person sharing rumors we've all read about over the years on this forum.

I don't begrudge anyone trying to make a few bucks off a book. The book-writing process is probably cathartic for a lot of people. I just don't expect the quality of any of these recent, self-published JW books to be very good.

By the way, the following book is one of the best books I've read, even though it's not strictly about JWs. It's written by a former evangelical christian who left a high-control denomination. The author went on to become a psychologist.

https://www.amazon.com/Leaving-Fold-Former-Fundamentalists-Religion/dp/1933993235

http://marlenewinell.net/leaving-fold-former

9

Hunt begins for legion of ‘missing’ children being educated at home

by rebel8 in

jw
friends

a person who used to post here is quoted in this article.. i hate to be a biotch, but since this has happened multiple times here, let me just say this: please do not be an asswipe and "out" her here because it would connect her real name to her username on this forum, and all the highly personal stuff that goes with that.

disclosing that is her decision, not yours.. ok, now that we have that out of the way, here's the article.

it's pretty great to have the political and religious radicalism connected to dubbery in this way.

neverendingjourney

My idiot brother is about to home school his 12 year old daughter. My brother is a closet alcoholic and his wife is a cold hearted woman who never loved him yet married him out of a sense of religious duty. My brother had "status" back then.

My niece is emotionally stunted and socially awkward. She can't make friends or get along with peers at school. So obviously the answer is to take her out of school. This child won't have a chance. She'll grow up and her future will be completely dependent on some "brother" marrying her and taking her out of the house. She won't have an education or social skills to make it on her own.

105

New Member Of The Governing Body 24 Jan 2018

by pale.emperor in

just seen this announced on reddit:.

ken cook was announced today at morning worship as the new member of the governing body.

i dont recall him from the broadcasts, but he was formally a helper on the writing committee as per https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/governing-body/.

neverendingjourney

He kinda looks like a fat Keith Olbermann

30

Couple of real gems in the WT study for this upcoming weekend

by sir82 in

since blondie seems to still be on sabbatical, i'll take the liberty of highlighting a couple of "gems" from this week's upcoming study, from the article "reject worldly thinking".. from paragraph 12:.

is it true that succeeding in a secular career that offers power and prestige leads to lasting happiness?

remember that the craving to control others and the longing to be admired are the desires that enticed satan, but he is angry, not happy.. .

neverendingjourney

Is it true that succeeding in a secular career that offers power and prestige leads to lasting happiness? No. Remember that the craving to control others and the longing to be admired are the desires that enticed Satan, but he is angry, not happy.

Let's be real here. This is in support for their anti-college view.

There are about 400 people who work for my company in my office building (it's an international company, but we have a big office in my city). Roughly 90 percent of the employees here have bachelor's degrees (including most of the administrative staff). About 40 percent have advanced degrees (master's or higher). Do they think we all get to control people? Do they think we are all prestigious? The vast majority have no interest in any of that. What they do have an interest in, though, is taking care of their families financially.

To be fair, I don't know how much of this is coming from a deeply cynical place and how much of it is just a product of sheer ignorance. I grew up in a Spanish language congregation full of immigrants and didn't really ever interact with any college-educated JWs. I remember when I was around 18, I met a recent JW convert who had a two-year associate's degree. Man, I thought that guy was something else. He had an associate's degree! I used to talk him up all the time and he'd be visibly embarrassed by it

Maybe these dingbats know so little about the real world that they imagine everyone out there with a college degree is living some kind of luxurious hedonistic lifestyle. Spoiler alert: Most people with college degrees are barely earning income above the median.