Another memorable meeting with Br. SuperFine and Br. Dorkie...
if you don't know these 2 elders, my previous post explains that SuperFine is a pioneer elder and "ex" child abuser and Br. Dorkie is a latecomer brother who had his engineering degree and reveled in his high brow lifestyle...
This particular event was a couple of years after I had resigned as an elder. I had been getting the evil eye from the brothers because I had ceased "reaching" out and kissing butt. I also had 2 children who I was going to raise differently from the way I had been. I allowed them to be in musicals and plays at school, I allowed them to play sports and do other things that are complete "no no's"...
Because of my past "golden boy" status and my family name - I had been given some degree of slack - they didn't pounce on me immediately. However, my attitude had become quite obstinate towards the older men and they felt that I needed some counsel...
One night after the service sales meeting, Br. Dorkie approached me. Mind you, he rarely ever spoke with the common people of the congregation, so whenever he approached you - you knew something was up. Br. Dorkie says "would you mind chatting with Br. SuperFine and I for a few minutes?" I agreed - and I learned a valuable lesson that night to never agree to a meet without knowing what the topic was.
We visit with the friends and as everyone is leaving (I had the family ride home with neighbors...) we proceeded to walk the hallway towards the meeting room...
I sat on one side of the table and SuperFine and Dorkie sat facing me. I knew I was in "trouble" when Dorkie asked SuperFine to say a prayer...
after the prayer, Dorkie says that they had become aware from the "friends" that I had allowed my son to be in a musical at school and they wanted to know if that was true. (I love how they do that - hear about an issue and plan a formal meeting and then ask if it was true - what if I had said "no" - would they then start making phone calls to provide witnesses?) I said yes, that was true and as a parent I deemed that it was okay. They then did the standard "bad association" speech... blah blah blah...
The musical was "Grease" and they started on how I could in good conscience allow my son to be part of such a worldly play that condoned premarital sex, smoking and drinking. I then asked them if they saw the movie Grease - SuperFine immediately said "NO"... I call BS on that one... I then said I know several elders and their families that have seen the movie and that if it was ok to go see it, why is it wrong to be in a school production of it.
Bye the way, my son sang the "hand jive" song and did a great job!!!
They then spoke about setting good examples for other families and that as a former elder I should know better.
Next they brought up a musical from the year before that I had my kids participate in - and I asked them why bring that up now? They said it added to the picture - showing a trend that I had of condoning worldly associations.
By this time, I had had enough. I played the humble publisher part - told them that my wife and I would discuss this and thanked them for their concern.
It seemed that the meeting was over - and I was ready to bolt and make the drive home and was becoming quite irritated that they wasted my time and how spiritual they thought themselves to be - when SuperFine looks down at his "notes" and said "oh, yes, I almost forgot, one other thing... it seems that your son went to a party after the play was over - we really need to discuss this too" At that point, I stood up and said "you didn't forget, you were just going down your checklist of all the things you wished to discuss with me. I don't feel that you have any right to question a parents decision in these matters and no wrongdoing has occurred. This meeting is over.
(The party was pizza and sodas with all the participants and their parents and teachers...)
and I walked out with SuperFine and Dorkie speechless - they could not believe that someone up and walked out on them - they are princes for crying out loud!
Needless to say, the next time they wanted to meet with me - I asked them for the subject to be discussed in writing so I could prepare beforehand. I told them it was quite unfair to ask a publisher talk with them unprepared - they certainly researched things, made notes and all sorts of preparations - why not allow the recipient of their "counsel" enjoy that same benefit?
about a year later, my son was on the varsity basketball team and the "word" got around the hall... it was on a Sunday in 2005 that I was scheduled to read the WT, as I walked into the hall - Br. Dorkie quickly came up to me and said that the brothers needed to meet with me to discuss my son playing school sports and that they felt it would not be appropriate for me to read until this matter was resolved.
I said "ok", got my things, spoke quietly to my wife and children that we were leaving. That was the last time I ever spoke to Dorkie, that was the last time I stepped into that hall. From then on, I started researching JWs, I found this site and have not missed any of the petty man made rules and unloving dicatorial style this cult religion exhibits.
I left not just because of the issue with my children, but that in conjuntion with many things led up to this moment. The hiding of abuse, the pharasaical rules, the shaky and changing doctrine, the circular logic, the lies - it all made me realize that I needed to "get out of her" I did not want to share in the badness around me. The common publisher has no clue, they are victims and I feel sorry for them. The blame rests on the leadership who lead by fear and threats.
Needless to say, the rumor around the circuit was that I had yelled at Dorkie and stormed out of the meeting - slamming the door... too funny!
By the way, both my kids love playing ball, my daughter is captain of her dance team, plays ball, runs track, acts in plays, gets straight A's, is VP of her class and is a normal, healthy, loving, caring, beautiful 14 year old girl.
My son is now a freshman in college - studying pre-med and is active in campus life. He has grown into a fine young man - who has been allowed to find his own identity and is able to make his own life decisions - based on an honest relationship with his parents - no secrets - no hypocrisy. He is into music, even has a lip ring - which looks funny since he dresses preppy... kids today... they want to love life - they want to experience life - and the kids I have been around are polite, trustworthy and care about people. They are not the wicked, drug abusing, sex crazed cartoons that appear in the WT publications...
Enough for now, just wanted to share some more about my past... more to come...
-Sibboleth
sibboleth
JoinedPosts by sibboleth
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27
I walked out on the elders..
by sibboleth inanother memorable meeting with br.
dorkie... .
if you don't know these 2 elders, my previous post explains that superfine is a pioneer elder and "ex" child abuser and br.
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sibboleth
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48
another Elder's Meeting memory...
by sibboleth inanother story that i'd like to share.
however, since he is a pioneer - maybe he should be the service overseer and br.
superfine is not doing things still ?
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sibboleth
I am not sure what more to add to this post... This will always be there, I know, in the back of my mind... thank you for all your comments... time to share another memory that I think you will find interesting... stay tuned... -Sibboleth
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48
another Elder's Meeting memory...
by sibboleth inanother story that i'd like to share.
however, since he is a pioneer - maybe he should be the service overseer and br.
superfine is not doing things still ?
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sibboleth
Hi Sammieswife,
good point. I do not know this daughter personally, not sure where she lives - I know she used to live a couple of hours north... by the way, this man indeed has grandchildren, several of them. He had 2 daughters and a son and I know that only the one daughter (the one he abused) is not DF'd. The other 2 children don't have anything to do with their father... why? don't know - maybe they know what happened?
-Sibboleth
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48
another Elder's Meeting memory...
by sibboleth inanother story that i'd like to share.
however, since he is a pioneer - maybe he should be the service overseer and br.
superfine is not doing things still ?
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sibboleth
Hello all,
I didn't mean to be so defensive, sorry. I certainly appreciate all your comments - it helps get things out from behind the veil I have been wearing for the past years.
Here are some more answers to some questions posted:
The elder's meeting we are discussing was held in late 1997, so the daughter is now in her late 40's...
My first post ended with me pondering what I should so about this memory - I would like nothing more than to tell everyone I know that he is a child molester - scream it from the top of my voice - but then I hesitate - what if he truly had repented - it's now been 35 years or so since the "event" - would I now hurt his daughter more by bringing this up? Would anyone even belive me since they all think I'm an opposer or some think I'm an apostate. I've shared some of my disgust about the lies, coverups to my parents and they refuse to talk to me now... I'm sure that has spread throughout the area... what I say to them bears no weight...
Yes, I am battling myself about all those years I was in this religion - I was groomed from my teenage years to be a big shot... my family name opened all the doors for me - I was a reg pioneer at 18, participated in several dramas, MS at 20, Elder at 27, resigned at 32, started "fading" at 34 or 35 and completely broke away from the cult at 39. Now I am 41 and still have these memories of what I was a part of - and it is difficult to write about it to you, but I now feel the need to share what I am dealing with - hopefully you can help me navigate through this.
I have become so "lost" - I feel like I my past is for another person - I have blocked alot of things out of my mind - cannot even remember many of the "scriptural" things I used to speak about daily. I certainly question whether god exists and if he does, he surely is making it very difficult for people to know him and serve him. Not cool.
Again, thank you so very much for assisting me on this journey. I appreciate your feedback and your kind nudges to my conscience. And I truly want you to be honest with me - for so many years I have failed to be honest with myself and now I struggle to know what it is I really want to do with my life...
Best regards,
-Sibboleth
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48
another Elder's Meeting memory...
by sibboleth inanother story that i'd like to share.
however, since he is a pioneer - maybe he should be the service overseer and br.
superfine is not doing things still ?
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sibboleth
In response to some of your serious questions:
I resigned as an Elder within 6 months from that "revelation", for this situation and others that I will also share via another post. I did take my concerns to the CO and according to the CO: this event occurred 25 years earlier before this brother was an Elder. This event has been filed with the society, but since so much time has passed and the obvious "blessing" upon this brother, no futher action is req'd...
His daughter is a reg pioneer in another congregaion about 2 hours away - not sure about long term impact on her life due to this terrible act - I did not know her.
As far as "mutual masterbation" - that is what he said happened - I didn't ask for nor did he submit futher details since that was a past event. I cannot imagine the gory details, nor do I want to.
How would you have corrected this? I was a newbie elder following the lead of the more "spiritual" men. I feel like a couple of you are upset with me for not doing something - now I'm on the defensive???
Don't attack me when you do not know me, nor know what I have gone thru myself. It is easy to say "turn him in", stir it up and take down that man for the evil thing he did 25 years ago than it is to actually do it.
We can speculate all we want about if he did this again or continues to - but there was no nor is no evidence indicating that. He continues to have the full support of that cong's body of elders and obviously the support of the WT.
Turn him in? For what? How? Make his daughter testify against him - she is in her mid 40's and has children of her own - what good would that do? How prove? My word - info obtained from a secret elders meeting against his?
As far as god having mercy on my soul - I am not sure I believe in god anymore, and if there is one - he surely knows my heart and knows why I was unable to "act" further.
-Sibb -
48
another Elder's Meeting memory...
by sibboleth inanother story that i'd like to share.
however, since he is a pioneer - maybe he should be the service overseer and br.
superfine is not doing things still ?
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sibboleth
Another story that I'd like to share. I am typing as I think about it, so I apologize if this is not fluent or smoothe...
Rewind to the late 90's. Lots of letters from HQ regarding child abuse cases. Seems like every Thurs night after the meeting we had a new letter - of course none of us thought anything about it - certainly had no clue that this was a huge problem and would only escalate - especially after the Dateline story…
If you read my earlier post regarding "King PO" - the setting is now at another congregation - I had moved there to "help" - ha ha… me and all my experience at age 32… interestingly enough, this was "King PO's" former congregation - he had trained most of the body there - so they emulated his black/white approach to things… meddling in private affairs, ready to judge and correct the flock… and quick to have a different set of standards for the elders and the elite spiritual clique...
One night in the back room, we were all there, minus the PO (not King PO, but his self-righteous cousin - "SUPERFINE PO") and the secretary (a dorkie fellow who had come into the org later in life - after he had his engineering degree and made a good living working for a large corporation… had a huge house and always talked about his wine collection)
As we chatted, we wondered where SUPERFINE and Dorkie were. Finally they came in with somber looks and SUPERFINE seemed whiter than usual…
Dorkie: "brothers, Br. Superfine would like share some information with you that is related to the recent information the society has given us regarding previous cases of child abuse…"
Superfine: "hmmmm… well, you know that the society recently noted that any elder that had ever been previously guilty of hmmmm… child abuse would need to let the body know and also report this situation to headquarters… hmmmm… well I was reproved back in 1973 for mutual masterbation with my 12yr old daughter…"
Total silence. My head started spinning. Tunnel vision. Unbelievable!
It seems dear Br. Superfine had been doing some pretty bad things with his daughter. He confessed this to KING PO - who was the PO at the time. Br. Superfine was only a MS then, he was counseled, reproved (privately) and that was it. But King PO liked him, he was a good yes man… I seriously doubt if anyone spoke with his daughter to see if she was ok. Obviously no one spoke to the authorities.
Now, 25 years or so later - it comes out. Br. Superfine is a reg pioneer, Presiding Overseer and he and his wife are the uber righteous couple who are so far above everyone else spiritually… (or so they think)…
<< sidebar: Sister Superfine just last year announced she was annointed… she is Br. Superfine's 2nd wife (first one died due to kidney probs - no blood transfusions allowed…) Sister Superfine was baptized in her late 30's, been in the org for about 10 years and now one of the annointed!!!! >>
So, we all looked at each other in disbelief - finally another elder said that it was ok - it was obvious that Jehovah's blessing was still upon Br. Superfine. However, we should alert the Circuit Overseer and ask his advice.
Next CO visit - about 4 months later… CO said yes, it is obvious that Br. Superfine no longer has this problem, and that Jehovah has blessed him. So it would not serve the congregation to remove him as elder. However, since he is a pioneer - maybe he should be the service overseer and Br. Dorkie will now be the PO.
We all agreed and swept it under the table and not another word was said.
Note: two of us had young daughters - and we made the comment that under no circumstances would we allow our daughters to go out in service or be alone with Br. Superfine. However, we did not say anything to the other parents! I am so sorry.
Many of you know more about this than I do - if a grown man in his 30's mutually masterbated with his 12yr old daughter - do you think this is a problem/tendancy that would just "go away"???????
I keep thinking that this man goes door to door, gives experiences at the assemblies, spends time with the youth… and he is a confessed child molester. And I've mentioned this to my father and brother in the past and they just say - let Jehovah handle things if there is a problem…
Unbelievable…. should I let sleeping dogs lie? How do we know Br. Superfine is not doing things still ? Scary stuff....
More stories as the come to me... this is good medicine to get this off my chest...
-Sibb
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48
What will it take for me to stop this?
by sibboleth ini have lurked for over a year.
i keep coming back here - everytime i do - it's like witnessing a car wreck.
the things i don't want to read or believe are right here before my eyes - it's like a drug.
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sibboleth
thank you all for the kind greetings and good wishes... just got back from my DF'd sisters house - we had a superbowl party - my Colts won!!!
I already have started another topic, sharing some of my experiences as an elder - I hope I can vent and purge all those memories that still haunt me today - and I think it has helped already...
Good nite to all and have a wonderful week ahead.. I come here daily, so I will talk to you all later...
Best regards and agape' to all.
-Sibb -
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I feel bad about being a part of this...
by sibboleth inseveral years ago, approx 1995, i was a newbie elder - age 29 and was just doing the "yes man" duties around the hall.
there was the overbearing po who was the "king" of the congo and whatever he said was gospel... if he didn't like you - you were history... needless to say - i kissed his butt and moved up the ladder quite easily.
we had another newbie elder - in his late 40's - and he was a smart man.
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sibboleth
ReturnVisitor,
Correct. Stories like these are a shining example of a lack of love.... -
64
If I was to walk into your home . . .
by Lady Lee inwhat one thing would i see that would tell me the most about you?.
the center of my home is my computer and my books.
standing at the door that is the first thing you will see.
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sibboleth
you would notice the pictures of my children - I am so proud of them... my son is a freshman in college - studying pre-med.
My daughter is a freshman in high school and captain of her dance team... she is an A student, plays basketball, runs track and is VP of her class...
despite years of JW control - I have 2 beautiful and normal children who are allowed to be themselves - and guess what - they are polite, honest, hard working and loving...
after the pics, you would see my guitars - I love music...
Regards,
Sibb -
32
My Bethel Experince Part V
by new boy inbindery...........5th floor building 3 bindery line 5.............. the machines conquer all.. standing in the same spot, doing the same motion thousands of times a day........you would get the 1000 yard stare (seen in the war movies)..........the first week, you would think about everyone you ever meet........the next week you would think about every movie you ever saw...........the next week, about every place you would like to travel to.............................the next week think about every mistake you made...............the next week, someone would walk up and ask you "what are you thinking about?".
"nothing".......you would say........you were brain dead.. there is eternality!......................some hours felt like it.
a good friend of mine, jim pipkorn (also from the lanudry) who was also shafted to the "end sheet gluer" in the bindery, got so depressed that for months, he would come back to his room make himself some dinner and go to bed, at about 7:00 p.m...................i asked him why he was doing that, he said "it makes the days go by quicker" .
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sibboleth
I thoroughly enjoy your experiences! I can't wait for the next one!!
thank you!!!
Sibb