Posts by SnakesInTheTower

seems a bit tamer than the old board though.. need the board's input on a sociology question and wonder if some of you might respond.. i can't tell you how many conversations i have had with witnesses and ex-witnesses where the subject doesn't inevitably come up about who is still 'in' and who has 'fallen away'.

SnakesInTheTower

welcome back journey on..

I was the first born that stayed in from age 4 until age 40.

My younger brothers were never baptized and walked away as soon as they were adults. I don't know why I stayed in. I didn't know anything else and was (and maybe still am) socially inept. I figured I better keep what little social structure I had because I wouldn't find one when I left. Though I was an elder for 5 years, I was still on the outside socially.

I figured freedom to look for an alternative social life was better than the sham social structure I grew up with.

Snakes ()

37

Choosing Death (for born ins)

by brinjen in

it's a powerful weapon isn't it?

death.

it was used on all of us at one stage when we were inside of that cult.

SnakesInTheTower

very interesting post brin...

I may as well have been a "born-in." I was about 4 when my mom started studying. My little brother was probably under 1. My mom was stuck in an apartment with two little kids by herself for a month at a time while her hubby (my dad) was on a Coast Guard cutter. Only people she knew were her non-JW next door neighbor family. Kingdom Hall a block away. Special pioneers knock on her door. Of course she jumped at the chance for adult conversation. Mom says it saved her marriage. Dad quit military 3 years shy of retirement (and pension).

After what was probably 4 years of a "normal" childhood (I seen pictures of one birthday party and one christmas), spent 14 years of my childhood and over 22 years of my adult life slaving for the Organization. It was chosen for me.

Funny, the whole death thing never scared me. I figured there was no burning hell so what was there to be scared of. The only thing that bothered me for awhile was finding out I would never see my JW father again in the resurrection. That was hard. I had never properly grieved his death. I nearly had a breakdown about 5 years afterward, but I was still a dub. 8 years after the near meltdown (and 13 years after his death), I had to grieve all over again because I found out the truth about the Truth™.

I guess the dubs still have a small hold on me because of my JW mom. Once I leave the area I grew up and served as an elder, I dont have to acknowledge the Witnesses again. I will become just another worldly person.

Snakes ()

29

The interior of your vehicle....how do you keep it?

by restrangled in

jw
friends

this subject may seem like fluff, but it really isn't.

in the last 3 days i have been in 3 vehicles, where the floor was not visable, water bottles or garbage were accidently kicked out as i tried to get in.

coffee cups belonging in the house were littered willy-nilly, the passenger seat was loaded with crap, and one vehicle actually held underwear of the persons love interest.

SnakesInTheTower

Restrangled, I was thinking about your thread tonight as I was cleaning out my car . I do need seriously to vacuum and shampoo the car. Winter time gets it ugly fast. First warm dry day I get this week that is what I will to do (looks like Wednesday). I try to keep it clean. Over the weekend, the car is my rolling office for work. It gets a bit cluttered on Sat/Sun. Drives me nuts.

Front seat: I have stuff for work (paperwork, work orders, door hangers, etc.) and a travel mug. Cell charger and bluetooth. Oh, there is a toner cartridge (that will go to Office Max tomorrow) I do eat in the car sometimes...but there is NO food wrappers in my car...I take that and throw it out in the first trash can I find (and recycling goes home). Today I ate an orange in the car. The peels are making it smell real nice, so I am leaving those in overnight. I will throw those out in the morning. Natural deodorizer. lol I declutter the car on Sunday night when I get done with most of my job (which is over the weekend).

The back seat has just a few of items: my gym bag (so I dont have an excuse not to go to the gym), my hat (yes, that hat..the original...I have 3 backups lol). An umbrella. And a snow scraper. That's it. The trunk has 1) a big green Rubbermaid container that holds some extra work stuff, some things to clean the car; 2) a small tool case for when I do a rare cable disconnect. 3) A small box to throw aluminum cans into which I then transfer to a big bin in my garage. (ok, I am a closet hobo, picking up cans on the side of the road...can prices are down now, so I am storing them in sealed bins in the garage until prices go back up). And 4) a small bag to put remotes and cable cords into until I get them to the office.

I drive a 4 door Honda Civic

PEC:

If thier car is full of trash, thier house is probably the same.

True that. I have a small stack of newspapers in my living room that I let pile up this week that need to go outside to the recycle bin, that will be done in the morning. quick story... I met a real nice girl on eHarmony. She lives about 5 hours away. Have not met her in person. I can tell we are not compatible already. How? When I mention cleaning house or dusting ceiling fans, she pokes fun at my "domesticity." This tells me she is not so much. Combine that with her 90 pound Doberman.... that she lets sleep in her bed....I like cats and dogs, but....nah... good friend.,....would be bad girlfriend/wife.

Snakes ()

12

LACK OF MOTIVATION: I should be at work but...

by SnakesInTheTower in

jw
friends

..instead i have been surfing the net for the last hour or so, catching up a tiny bit on online school work, then coming here and reading and posting.. i have a job that allows me to write my own schedule.

i probably average about 20 hours a week, most of that on saturday and sunday.

my job is bill collector, so i work when people are home.

SnakesInTheTower

purps...yes, February does suck, almost as much as Aug/Sept (Labor Day) does.

jamie... I may have to delay the BA/BS and stand on the AS after August... I have to catch up financially (unless for some reason some grant or scholarship happens to drop out of the sky).

just got back from work...worked 9-3....did alright, I took Saturday off..didnt do anything fun, just not anything called work. will have to work again either Monday and/or Wednesday...

Snakes ()

39

What did you find upset elders the most ?

by KAYTEE in

what i found that upset elders more than most things was, when you made them verify their statement with scriptural backing.. when you showed their complete lack of common sense coupled with lack of christian knowledge.. on one occasion when having a heated discussion, i constantly made them refer to the org.

book for the answer, they ridiculed me, saying "are you getting your little green book out again".. all i was trying to point out was the answer (according to the society) on the subject at hand, most organisation will have some sort of code of conduct, the little green book was theirs.. they wanted to be right in all things even if it meant going against the org.. kt.

.

SnakesInTheTower

I never played nice with the elders in their sandbox. I especially didn't play nice when I became an elder.

The elders hated it when I graduated MTS...they tried to stop me from attending in the first place. The CO (himself a grad from the first class) painted them in a corner and made them submit a proper recommendation after 4 previously unsuccessful attempts at applying. Once I graduated, the elders couldn't wait to get me out of their congregation.

The last congo I was an elder in, I used the bible and every WT publication, letter, etc. to stop local BOE stupidity.....thinking I was doing "the right thing ™", not knowing that in trying to force the elders to stop their petty power plays I was allowing the WTS to continue their major power plays. I was just a cog in the MTS wheel in the larger WTBTS machinery.

Now I am just the grit that gums up the works from time to time.

Snakes ()

12

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 02-22-09 WT Study (JESUS PURPOSE)

by blondie in

jw
friends

comments you will not hear at the 02-22-09 wt study (december 15, 2008, pages 12-16)(jesus purpose).

review comments will be in red.

(a) why can we say that jesus is unique in his role as the only-begotten son?

SnakesInTheTower

Thanks Blondie...

This does not surprise me, this quoting "scholars" in their footnotes without properly attributing the quote, or more likely taking a quote out of context to suit the purposes of the Society.

I have found this particular set of phenomena prevalent in my college courses as well. Except that it is no longer phenomena, it is now commonplace. In one of my online discussion forums for college (macroeconomics), one assignment each week is to address whatever topic question(s) are provided by the instructor and use scholarly resources to back up our postings. I do not believe that proper scholarly research is taught in high school, based on the postings I see on the online course forum. Fellow students either give their own Big Media influenced, biased opinion or they quote wikipedia, an ever changing, unverified, unvetted internet resource that is great for throwing trivial facts to the wind, but not acceptable for scholarly research. Some so-called research links even end in .blogspot.com. When was a blog considered a legitimate research source?

When I mentioned this sad fact to the instructor (in person and via email), he told me that this is what is coming out of the education system these days. This instructor has been teaching at this college for three decades plus...before it was its current incarnation. He says he addresses it privately but it does no good. He agreed that students are lazy in their so-called "research."

I provide that anectdote to just show that WTBTS writers are not alone in their poor "research" methodology. Since WTBTS/GB does not encourage anything past a high school education anyway, are we surprised by the continued degradation of already poor writing by the Watchtower Society? I am not. The Society is aiming for the lowest common denominator in the education level of its members. Quite honestly, it is the only reason that they recruit or retain anyone in the Jehovah's Witness "religion." Anyone with half a brain, and no emotional or familial ties to the religion, won't put up with it. I feel for those who know JW is a crock o' $hit and have to keep going to keep family ties.

Snakes ()

12

LACK OF MOTIVATION: I should be at work but...

by SnakesInTheTower in

jw
friends

..instead i have been surfing the net for the last hour or so, catching up a tiny bit on online school work, then coming here and reading and posting.. i have a job that allows me to write my own schedule.

i probably average about 20 hours a week, most of that on saturday and sunday.

my job is bill collector, so i work when people are home.

SnakesInTheTower

rebel8:

Are you possibly fearful of the new challenges you'll experience after you graduate?

I knew I liked you for some reason. Right to the point. I appreciate it.

My problem I think is that I thought I had already graduated. The first degree I got was a career degree. That and $2 gets me a cup of cofee at the bakery. Basically worthless. I switched gears and decided to pursue an AS degree as a transfer degree to a business school. Then the economy goes in the $hitter and even a BA/BS is worth about what the first degree is worth. **sigh**

I think I am more fearful of having spent thousands of dollars (a combination of student loans and credit card debt) and 4 years (with a year break) and having not improved my economic lot one iota. I am not one to quit, so I will finish the AS this summer. Pursuing the BA/BS degree may have to go on indefinite hold while I catch up financially. The reality is I am 42 years old and need to find something, anything, to make the remaining 25 earning years (or 40 years if I become a Wal-Mart greeter **shudder** or a hobo) productive years.

I may even end up staying in my current occupation -- debt collection -- but maybe with an Associates degree and my real life background I might qualify for something other than entry level again. And with a different company...one whose client is not filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy itself.

Snakes ()

12

LACK OF MOTIVATION: I should be at work but...

by SnakesInTheTower in

jw
friends

..instead i have been surfing the net for the last hour or so, catching up a tiny bit on online school work, then coming here and reading and posting.. i have a job that allows me to write my own schedule.

i probably average about 20 hours a week, most of that on saturday and sunday.

my job is bill collector, so i work when people are home.

SnakesInTheTower

..instead I have been surfing the net for the last hour or so, catching up a tiny bit on online school work, then coming here and reading and posting.

I have a job that allows me to write my own schedule. I probably average about 20 hours a week, most of that on Saturday and Sunday. My job is bill collector, so I work when people are home. I am still knocking on doors, but making money for me now instead of the WTBTS. The amount of work I am issued has decreased in the last year -- not because I only work part time but because of a lot of other factors. (I would know if they were cutting my work, I have access to the master work load spreadsheet each day from our client). I am strictly commission, so if I don't work, I don't make money. The economy in the tank is making it more difficult to collect past due balances from an ever shrinking pool of cable clients. I will have to work Sunday no choice... without prior notice, I cant take the entire Fri-Sun weekend off without serious reprecussions at work.

This morning I got up at about 8, had been awake since 7 listening to the news on the radio. I got up and checked my work load status, put my route together, and then just really didn't give a sh*t. I also thought about going to an open house for a nearby university for their school of business, but also decided to blow that off. I will wait until next week when they come on campus to talk to them.

I have noticed my lack of motivation leaching into other areas of my life. I am taking 5 courses at the community college... 3 online, 2 on campus. I successfully tested out of a 6th class so that will save me having to take the time to actually take it (though I will still have to pay for the credits on my transcript). You would think with all the free time I have I should be way ahead on things...you would be wrong. I seem to work up to deadline knowing that I will make it with no problems. It has almost bit me in the a#$ a couple of times.

For example, yesterday I did very little useful. ....Once again I didnt take my garbage and recycling to the curb.... its all outside in bins, so its not stinking up the house or anything.... and I generate very little garbage anyway.

I have been meaning to bake some wheat bread...got the ingredients...just dont do it..... I did finally make another batch of banana muffins (a poster here gave me a great recipe).... but all I did yesterday was go to the post office, bank, grocery store and library...oh and the bakery/cafe where I read the paper and drank coffee...ate lunch there for a change. Otherwise, I just dont feel like doing much of anything. I dont go to the gym (I am not gaining weight or anything, but I have lost a lot of the strength gains I made last year when I worked out regularly). I sit around and watch shows I record on my DVR....but anything useful? Not until I have to do it.

I think I hang out at the bakery just to be around people. Fun to watch people . I just sit in a nice comfy chair in a corner that gives me a good view of anyone coming in and out, and most of the dining room. Interesting to listen to people talk. Drink my coffee and read the paper (or whatever I have with me). Cheap entertainment. But watching and listening is not the same as interacting.

I dunno... I am lucky to have a job. Especially since I know others, including some here, are in a bad situation employment-wise. So I am notcomplaining about my life. Not at all. Logically I know what it is........its depression and I know it. I cannot afford a shrink so dont suggest it. I stay away from pharmaceuticals unless I absolutely have to. I am just venting. Nothing JW-related...other than for the first time in my life (the last 18 months or so) I am having to focus on myself instead of the Borg.

However, for now, what I really need is a shower, a shave, and coffee..in that order. I will get the shower and shave, throw some clothes on, and then head to the coffee....off to the bakery. I gotta get away from the computer and out into the sunlight...

Snakes ()

53

What Got YOU Out Of The Organization?

by minimus in

jw
friends

how did you come to the final decision to get out of her (the organization, "mother")?

?.

SnakesInTheTower

I am with sunnygal on the 95 generation change. Since I had no real life outside the organization, I used to do a lot of "personal" study. Of course, this was before the Internet was really as powerful as it is now. I used to study secular and WT resources. Chronology was a favorite topic. Before the change was made official, I knew if something didn't change soon the organization was going to get caught with its pants down around its collective knees.

I once brought this up to someone (pre 95) and they asked if I was running ahead of the faithful slave. When it was finally considered at the WT study I think the implications of the doctrinal change went over about 90% of the publishers' heads. The older ones and those who paid close attention to the magazines when they first received them had already been talking about the change.

That was not enough to push me out. This had to be the "Truth." (You would have thought that an earlier incident in 1991 when I was JC for "being double-tongued" (aka "lying") when I was accused of lying by some jealous pioneer sisters would have pushed me out but I stuck it out).

I scrapped and scraped and was reappointed a MS, then an elder around 2002. What really got me thinking was attending MTS. We studied WT chronology there, the instructor discussed a personal conversation he had with a writer/researcher at his breakfast table about a certain greek word..... and shortly after the generation change was made..... I thought to myself during MTS..."what am I doing here?" And right there I started doing more research. Not long after I started lurking here and other JW sites.....

As an elder I had a hard time reconciling what I was telling the rank and file in the congregations was true when my own personal research was telling me just the opposite. But it was not any doctrinal issue that pushed me out. It wasn't the UN thing. It wasn't the pedophile thing (though that was pissing me off). It wasn't any chronology. All of that back story to answer the topic question:

It was the lack of love among the elders and their cronies that did it for me. Politics as usual.

You see, we weren't any different than the so-called "worldly" people that we so often condemned, both privately and rather boldly, and publicly but more subtly in the pages of The Watchtower. I always hated hypocrisy. I tried to be a decent elder and call BS when and where I seen it. This stand did not make me popular with my BOE. But by being an elder I was part of a problem that could not be fixed, not from within or from the outside. The arrangement and the organization was broken. If it was ever not broken I do not know.

On the last time that one of the elders (my nemesis, Brother Jackass) tried to get me removed I decided first to verbally resign, but then changed my mind and made him pull the trigger during the next CO visit. I could have successfully fought it (what with my MTS training and all), but I knew my time with the Organization was soon to end. I began plotting my exit...my fade.

Right after being deleted as an elder, I changed congos, changed circuits, changed states (but never physically moved away). I stopped field service Dec 06 with the previous congregation (though I turned in phantom reports through Aug 07). Started attending some meetings but slowly started dropping them. 8 months later, I attended my last meeting...sept 07.

The only thing left I guess is to get DF or to DA. I will only do that if forced into it. My JW mom would be affected. Once I finally move away from this region, my only connection to the witnesses will be sites like this one. More for the social aspect but also to maybe guide someone else away from the madness called Watchtower.

Snakes ()