Posts by Alpaca

I don't know what kind of support group/friends you have outside of the Borg, but if you don't have friends outside you should (IMHO) start building some bonds so that you've got some framework to lean on when the inevitable happens (i.e., you are cut off by friends and family in the Borg). Another avenue that you might pursue is to draw close to any family members who are not in the Borg (even if they are a little removed-- like cousins).

Going back to school at a university was a huge help for me. I've made lots of good, ethical, smart friends while I've been attending.

Things get easier with time. It's been ten years for me and I can honestly say that I am at peace.

All the best and good luck,

Alex

4

Clinton out of cash can't even pay her campaign bills...

by zeroday in

jw
friends

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9259.html

Alpaca

My heart's bleeding for her.........

NOT!!!

39

Do you feel reading through the bible in the past has benefited you at all?

by Hope4Others in

putting the doctrine aside do you feel it has given you any advantages?

case in point my son posts on university sites and often the topic about the bible.

and god come up.

Alpaca

Like many things in life the Bible's influence on me has been a mix of good (comparatively little and it could have been acquired at far less costly price) and bad (who can put a price on it?).

It was beneficial only to the extent that the Bible echoed the expressions of, what the Greeks refer to as "eternal truths" or "axiomatic truths," which are found in all great philosophies and religions. The Bible's object lessons in its stories and parables and its wisdom for living life in way that is honest, considerate of others, truthful, etc. cannot be discounted.

Having said that, the great harm done by teaching little kids that the Bible is a factual account of the history of the world and an accurate representation of how humans fit into some grand scheme is the epitome of dishonesty. Unfortunately, I fell for it as so many others have. The Bible has been applied as the ultimate mental prison to generations of humans. The same is true for the Koran.

Anything that shackles people unjustly and so completely is evil.

Thanks for enduring a little rant, here.

Cheers to all,

Alex

49

Who has lost faith?

by logic&reason in

i am curious about who (after leaving) went on to other religions vs. lost faith completely.

once i started questioning the wt society, i began to question everything.

as jw's we are taught from childhood up that other religions are false - so it seems easy, after elliminating the last one, to be rid of religion altogether.. .

Alpaca

Hey there L & R,

Welcome to the board.

I went through a very similar transformation. What really helped me the most was going back to school shortly after making the big exit. The Borg's oppressive attitude toward knowledge and education made me crazy and I was thirsty for as much knowledge as I could consume. I majored in geology and got my BS in 2004. Now I am nearly finished with a masters in geology and a law degree, but the geology education means the most to me. Geology and astronomy are the two sciences that deal with the concept of "deep time" -- 100s of millions to billions of years.

You simply cannot think about those vast expanses of time without questioning everything about where humans came from and where we fit into the evolutionary history of the earth. I too am not an atheist, but rather I consider myself an agnostic. My experience with the hard sciences has taught me to apply the scientific method to evaluate things. Nothing in science is ever really "proven" but, instead things sit on a continuum between false and true. As science progresses and hypotheses and theories are tested they are pushed toward one end of the continuum or the other.

On the faith continuum, with 0 = "no doubt/full faith" and 100 = "complete doubt/no faith," I am probably at about 99.5. I can't go to 100 because I feel that is just as presumptuous as the person who is at the other end of the continuum with full faith. On the other hand, I don't really don't expect anything to draw me below 99.5, but I am always open to ideas.

When I was going through my transformation from Dub to Agnostic it was a very scary experience. Almost like stepping off of a cliff in the dark and not knowing where I was going to end up. However, I can honestly say now that I have the greatest calm and peace of mind I have ever had.

Good luck, you are well on the way to an enriched life.

All the best,

Alex

11

Future = Will we find "religion" on other planets! Will it survive on earth

by Witness 007 in

if an alien visited earth in the 1600's he would find a culture deeply rooted in religion with little scientific knowledge.

if we travelled to other planets in 2080 will we find jehoovers witnesses??

or some other form of religion...or will they be scientific and logical....will we still be religious in 1,000 years due to scientific breakthroughs in the last 100 years?

Alpaca

Interesting contemplations!!!

The subject raises some interesting questions. For example, is religion a psychic experience that occurs in evolution when brains get to be a certain size? If so, it is interesting that there are a number of species on the planet that have much larger brains than we do (elephants and whales, etc.) that don't seem to express themselves religiously. Maybe the tendency toward religiosity in humans is just a quirk of evolution?

What says that religion must be developed as part of the social response of sentient beings?

I agree with Satanus that religion is just a hold over from our ancient past when mystical, supernatural explanations had to suffice for phenomena that could not be explained any other way with the limited mental tools that early humans possessed. The curious thing is that we seem to have stalled, in the evolutionary sense, when it comes to using reason and rationality to define reality. On the other hand, the rise of logic and reason (let's be generous and say that it started with the Greek philosophers) has only taken place in an evolutionary blink. Maybe, if humans get their act together and avoid destroying the planet, evolution will eventually bring us to a point that religion will recede into obscurity as just a phase that our species experienced in our development.

Cheers,

Alex

4

The mind balks at accepting it's measure

by A Paduan in

jw
friends

an interesting saying i heard the other day .

that the mind balks at accepting knowledge of great and irrevocable loss, though it be true.

it had me ponder how / why people make themselves stay as jws, and why "apostates" are such "bad association".

Alpaca

Good thread!!!

I'm no expert, but I believe that psychology attempts to explain the phenomenon with the concept of cogintive dissonance.

It goes something like this: If the mind is presented with evidence that conflicts with its construct of reality (that would be too frightening to abandon) it will do what ever it takes to harmonize the conflicting evidence rather than adjust the construct of reality in accordance with the evidence.

Just a thought.

Cheers,

Alex

17

Red Sea Chariot Wheels?

by MissingLink in

jw
friends

hey guys.

there is an email making the jw (and other christians) rounds right now that is basically a copy of this article.

that claims that artifacts found in the red sea prove that egypt's army was wiped out when moses and friends crossed.. is this true, or a hoax?.

Alpaca

What if someone did find chariot parts in the Red Sea? So what? There is all kinds of stuff scattered all over the Red Sea, the Mediterranean, and the Gulf of Aqaba. Humans have had trade routes and used them for military campaigns throughout the region for so many millenia that it would be more shocking to not find anything.

One of the obvious deficiencies in Ron Wyatt's "career" is that no single archaeologist could possibly have made so many discoveries if they were following the careful protocols that real archaeologists follow. Archaeology is a painstaking, tedious, undertaking under the best of circumstances and often there are dead ends to what look like promising leads.

A 07 is correct that most people who swallow this stuff start with the premise that the Bible is inspired and 100% accurate, so that any archaeological evidence is instantly interpreted as support for some Biblical account of something.

It is also true that sea level fluctuates over long periods of time and it is indisputable that at some point in the past sea level would have been sufficiently lower that the shorelines of all the region's bodies of water would have retreated seaward. Interestingly, 10 or 15 years ago, some archaeologists in Florida found the remains of a campsite with a fire pit and a charcoal pile in a cave now submerged in a 100 feet of water (all of Florida is very close to sea level). I don't know the chronology for sea level fluctuation in the Middle East / Mediterranean area during the period of time when the Jews were in Egypt, but it would be easy enough to find out. Geologists have documented global and regional sea level fluctuations over long periods of time and there are voluminous articles in academic journals about the subject.

Unfortunately, all of the foregoing will fall on deaf ears for the multitudes of fundies who refuse to logically consider the evidence objectively.

Cheers to all (including you believers--and I really mean that),

Alex

6

I'm A Passivist...My God Wasn't!

by new boy in

were is the sense...to this?.

i wouldn't go to war...i was a co in viet nam.

i couldn't even get into a fight at school without getting into trouble.. yet my god...jehovah was is a jealous god an angry god....a god who when he got missed off would destroy a whole planet...remember the flood....(the bible said he felt bad afterwards)...that was nice.. now he is getting ready to do it again....6 billion people worth....and why?.

Alpaca

Some very good commentary about the violent and bloodthirsty nature of the Bible's "God" is found in Karen Amstrong's classic book, "A History of God." She was interviewed on NPR recently and think the interview is archived for any of you who may be interested.

It's fascinating to hear her speak because she expresses herself in terms completely detached from the perspective of religious dogma.

Just a thought to pass on.

Alex

37

Did you see any sad living conditions in Field Service...?

by Casper in

jw
friends

im sure all of us at one time or another witnessed homes that broke our heartshere are a few of mine.

some of the homes i had been invited into out in service really left an impression on me.

call it naive or whatever, it was a real eye opener in some cases.. one in particular that i remember was a poor family with 8 little girls, stair step in age, the oldest no more than 9. this was an rv of the sister i was with.... very nice people, but the living conditions were appalling.

Alpaca

Hey there Cas,

Your experiences reminded me of some of my own. Very similar...dog poop on the floor, roaches, squalor, fleas, etc. Not that I didn't have experiences where people were living relatively normal lives in clean surroundings. But, you know it does make you realize that there did seem to be a disproportionate number of exceptionally poor people who were studying or having return vistits made on them.

Perhaps, it is just a reflection of the types of people the Borg preys on. There is nothing like a "pie-in-the-sky" message to appeal to someone who has little vision (or maybe even desire/ambition) about how they are going to lift themselves out of such dire circumstances. It has been noted on JWD numerous times that most of the worldwide growth of the Borg is in countries where the education level is low and poverty is widespread.

One good thing that did come out of the time I spent in the Borg is that I helped several adults to learn to read, which hopefully had some enduring effect on their earning potential and quality of life. I feel good about that.

Cheers,

Alex