Posts by dontknow

71

to join or not

by dontknow in

i've had in the past studied a little about the bible with jws but have yet decided to be baptised.. i've just read lavenders' moving letter to her son and her love and well being for him is very obvious.

i do like the bible teachings very much and to this day i'm very interested in the end of the system of things which will very soon come to fruition; i'm a very strong believer, however i must stipulate to all, in retrospect i'm not sinless.

one of the posters says that jw's ask you to do a liitle bible study with them, attend one of their meetings and when you get baptised you have to do exactly what you are instructed or else.

dontknow

Hello MeneMene,

in one of my posts I asked;

"Will JWs allow their family members be abused and turn the other cheek?"

and you replied with; "The short answer is YES!"

Are you serious? There must be more to this; Jesus does say if someone slaps your left cheek turn your right cheek also to be slapped. When does it stop here on earth? If your answer is until Armageddon do you know any human being on this planet who will wait until then to stop being slapped by an adversary without defending themselves? Again, are you serious?

Sounds interesting, and Jesus also said to be pure in the heart; ah yes indeed, but Jesus was not born of man but born of God which explains he didn't inherit sin; he was and is the only pure one; the perfect one.

I cannot believe your short answer statement because no human likes to withstand pain and it is a basic human function for one to raise their hand to protect themselves and their loved ones from any threat. I would say that if they do accept being abused physically without being defensive, they are very disillusioned.

71

to join or not

by dontknow in

i've had in the past studied a little about the bible with jws but have yet decided to be baptised.. i've just read lavenders' moving letter to her son and her love and well being for him is very obvious.

i do like the bible teachings very much and to this day i'm very interested in the end of the system of things which will very soon come to fruition; i'm a very strong believer, however i must stipulate to all, in retrospect i'm not sinless.

one of the posters says that jw's ask you to do a liitle bible study with them, attend one of their meetings and when you get baptised you have to do exactly what you are instructed or else.

dontknow

Thank you all again for sharing, I am becoming more aware and getting a much clearer picture of the WT society especially the baptism part which says:

Do you understand that your dedication and baptism indentify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization.

This God's spirit-directed organization is obviously the WT society which one must agree with its governing conditions or laws. How can someone agree to something they don't know about? The JWs only speak to you about Jehovah and Jesus when they knock on your door. These governing laws are not made known to the uninformed before baptism. So basically your enter into a blind agreement and if you're fortunate enough to realize you have been "led up the golden path" it will be too late because you have lost all your family, friends and associates you have known and spent time with all your life. Not only that, but you're stuck with you are a devil worshipper not worthy of anything. You become trapped within the organization not knowing what to do because of the immense fear that has been instilled within. If this is not oppression I don't know what is. If JWs agree to turn their back on the WT society and preach exactly to the letter according to Jesus's teachings I will join up quicker than an eye blink. But I cannot see that ever happening. I find it very comical when I'm told if I convert I will be saved when the war begins. Do I know that 100% ? Nobody does; only Jehovah.

Brother apostate, in your post you state;

Some things to consider:

Are you willing to mindlessly obey the Watchtower instead of the Bible?

Are you willing to lose your friends you have now?

Are you willing to avoid questioning any JW teachings under threat of disfellowshipping?

Are you willing to live a double life if you decide they are wrong about certain teachings?

Are you willing to become a robot and surrender your free will?

Are you willing to give up your free time to spend at meetings and driving around knocking on doors?

Are you sure that becoming a JW will save you?

Your call.

All these things I did consider and was willing to do at the drop of a hat until my father gave me insight into the clearer picture because my mind was clouded and after reading the horror stories on this site. No way in the world will I do any of the above. The JWs will come knocking on my door again, I know it because they gave me the book of Revelation with the red cover to read and will ask me what I think of it. That is when I will ask them what do think will happen to you with the things the governing body of the WT society instructs you to do. If they stay around for me to elaborate I will unleash everything to them and point out that their practises are not in accordance with bible principles. But I'm very certain they will not wait around to hear what I have to say; they'll be gone faster than lightning.

Lady Liberty,

you state;

The first thing they want you to do is to isolate yourself from friends and family who are now titled as "wordly". Now you have two classes. Those approved of and those who aren't. Then the fear comes in. The fear of becoming a bad associate yourself if you associate with wordly friends and family too often. Fear of displeasing Jehovah. And so begins the viscious cycle of always being afraid of something.

Who on earth are they to dictate to you to slowly seperate from family? If my mother is ill does it mean I am required to ask for permission to see her and explain in detail why. I am definitely not a person who discloses any family domestic details to anyone. They are much too busy bodies for my liking. It is very interesting that they demand you to isolate yourself from worldly people except those whom you are employed with even if they may be of very worldly influence, such as drug users, adulterers, thieves and trouble makers (I have been employed with them many times over many years, but I've never had any issues with them, got along well). Why is this so? Because if you isolate yourself from your employer, you have no job, therefore no food on the table. But I have been shown in their literature many times that JWs go out of their way to help people; but they will not feed you; oh no, no, thats is something you are responsible for. This is the only time you are granted permission to associate with the worldly. Far too many double standards for me.

Itsallgoodnow,

in your first paragragh you say;

I wanted to say, I don't know if anyone else already said it, but - I don't think the JWs would ask you to cut off your family, not lend them money and never associate with them if they are not witnesses. They would only discourage you from spending much time with your family, but they wouldn't ask you to withhold anything from them. What usually happens is families get frustrated when you won't participate in holidays and birthdays, and then the new witness attitude where you are preaching to them all the time gets old really fast and it's your family that would probably cut YOU off, not the other way around, in most cases. The pathetic thing about this is witnesses consider it a great honor to be able to brag about their families cutting them off. It's the persecution complex, and all witnesses have a little bit of that in them.

To me it makes no difference who cuts who off. The fact is they are the driving force behind it; the third party which influences the divide. I have no intentions to associate with anyone or any organization that tries to influence me in that manner. Family is far too precious.

Thanks again people, stay tuned for more as I gain more insight and become stronger in my convictions.

71

to join or not

by dontknow in

i've had in the past studied a little about the bible with jws but have yet decided to be baptised.. i've just read lavenders' moving letter to her son and her love and well being for him is very obvious.

i do like the bible teachings very much and to this day i'm very interested in the end of the system of things which will very soon come to fruition; i'm a very strong believer, however i must stipulate to all, in retrospect i'm not sinless.

one of the posters says that jw's ask you to do a liitle bible study with them, attend one of their meetings and when you get baptised you have to do exactly what you are instructed or else.

dontknow

Thanks lavendar, I know them jumping around from one topic to another; I admit I don't know as much as they do, but I tell you they will have a very difficult time trying to drag me closer to their belief and support in the WTs and not the bible. Interestingly my father has spoken with them over many years and studied the bible on his own in one of the most difficult languages; Greek. He is not a JW and never has been, but he is a hardcore bookworm who has been self educated all his life to the extent where JWs cannot answer his questions many times. I've seen it happen on many occassions and think to myself I wish I had one tenth of his knowledge.

Initially it was he he who really opened my eyes to see that they are really in his words dictators, that is those who established the watch tower society who wrote their own doctrine not inspired by Gods word and that the difference between them and other groups is that they don't believe in idolatry, believe they will inherit everlasting life and that only 144,000 chosen ones will govern in heaven with God. They do this to be different from other groups but all religions to some extent quote bible scriptures. He also said to me (this blew me away) when Moses led his people out of Egypt to return to the chosen land Jehovah set aside for them and also handed down the laws and 10 commandments to uphold and live by, they faced stiff opposition and fought many battles for 40 years to get to their land. But Jehovah commanded them "you must not commit murder" but they did in order to survive. Now he asked me what is going on here; on one hand Jehovah says to Moses tell your people "you must not commit murder" and on the other Moses with his people fight a war and Moses was supposed to be a believer of God. It came across to me as fairy tales and very contradictory.

He continued to give very detailed information about the organization that publishes all their material and how once you are converted the elders behave by the doctrine and examine every move you make and everything you say and completely dominate your life. He is extremely objective and can read a person very well when it comes to double meanings. He has the knack; it blows me away.

He showed me many examples in the bible which when I read them in English were a contradiction; for example Jesus says love your enemy. My father says if someone attacks you are you going to love them? Is there a human being on earth that loves their attacker? Will JWs allow an intruder ransack their home then pull out the bible and say "the lord says you must not to steal" and not do anything to prevent them? Will JWs allow their family members be abused and turn the other cheek? Will JWs apply eye for an eye tooth for a tooth when assulted or just stand like a statue and quote love thy neighbour as thy self? Will JWs really help you out in any difficult situation? Or do your parents love you less than JWs?

All these things started to make me tick because JWs are so sweet when they talk to you and I decided to look into things and found this informative site that has opened my eyes. The amazing thing is that my father spoke negatively about the behaviour of elders and how they run a JWs life which is exactly what ex JWs are writing about in their posts and he doesn't know how to use a computer or the internet to find out these things. He found out over many years of conversing with the blessed ones. Smart man; I should listen more often to more.

I hope your son doesn't get further involved and please use the above objectives my father used with me to open my mind from narrow sightedness.

16

PREMARITAL SEX

by Cj in

hello..i am catholic and my fiance was raised as a jw...we are very much in love..we planned on waiting till we were married before we made love but..we didn't.we will be married once we get past our differences.we will never be with anyone else ever again...his parents found out hat we had made love out of wedlock and now they despise me even more than they did before...anyone know how i should handle this situation?how do i convince them that idid not "corrupt" their son?

{who by the way is in his early thirties!!

}.hod do i get them to believe that it was really love and not lust?

dontknow

Cj,

I made a mistake in the 4th paragragh. It should read a JW not marry a non JW.

16

PREMARITAL SEX

by Cj in

hello..i am catholic and my fiance was raised as a jw...we are very much in love..we planned on waiting till we were married before we made love but..we didn't.we will be married once we get past our differences.we will never be with anyone else ever again...his parents found out hat we had made love out of wedlock and now they despise me even more than they did before...anyone know how i should handle this situation?how do i convince them that idid not "corrupt" their son?

{who by the way is in his early thirties!!

}.hod do i get them to believe that it was really love and not lust?

dontknow

Hello Cj,

I would like to begin by saying I am not a JW and after having read some posts from people whos lives have been shattered I don't intend to become one; not because I don't believe in Jesus and Jehovah, no quite the contrary; I cannot under any circumstances take an oath to abide by the man made regulations which govern the watchtower society becuase it is not inspired by Jehovah. I have studied the bible in the past and love and believe and try to practice what the scriptures teach but have never been baptised.

It is a very good thing to have found your soul mate and both of you are obviously very much in love. I must admit to you that I am no expert in relationships, but do yourself a favor and stop tearing your hair out. The fact that you had pre-marital sex does NOT necessarily mean you have sinned. Yes, the bible does not encourage pre-marital sex but I have consulted with a senior JW a very log time ago (I was employed by him in retail) if sex before marriage was OK and he replied to me by saying only if the man and woman get married. It is not good if both of you have sex out of lust, split up and go your seperate ways according to bible scriptures. The WT society many years ago published a red hardcover book titled "How can you live everlasting life on Paradise Earth" or something like it (maybe others on the forum can provide a more accurate title). Anyway, in it Jesus says that all people christians and non christians of all lands should marry. So far you havn't done anything wrong. When Jehovah created Adam and Eve, he gave strict instructions not to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge for the day they do they will positively die. Eve was decieved by Satan and ate the fruit and also encouraged Adam to have some. So they both sinned.

Adam knew that God instructed them not to eat the fruit but he disobeyed. Why? We know Eve encouraged him but there is another reason. He ate the fruit because he loved Eve his wife so much he didn't want to leave her but to be with her, remain joined with her in marriage. This is why when a man leaves his mother and father he marries his woman and the two become one flesh and let nothing come between them; this is what true love between man and woman is all about; LET NOTHING COME BETWEEN YOU.

As far his parents and your parents are concerned, in my opnion they should definitely not interfere at all, and if his parents insist you should not marry, this is very important, ask them to prove to both of you where in the bible does it say a christian cannot marry a non christian; or a JW not marry a JW. This watchtower doctrine written by man and not inspired by God or bible scriptures which JW swear and abide by is being thrust upon you in such a violent way to discourage you and your soulmate to part because you are seen as a worldly person. Please for your both your own well being and future happiness get a hold of the book I mentioned, read it carefully and highlight the section Jesus spoke about marriage and show these people who berate you not to be hypocrites. Do not contact these people or say anything to them until you do what I mentioned. You can jump up and down till the cows come home telling them I love him, I love him, I'm going to marry him no matter what, but it will not amount to anything until you find that quote and stick it in their face and say to them "see this is what your own watchtower book says and you are going against it hypocrites".

If you dont't do this, they will gang up on you, pester you until they break you to leave him. I can see you really want to share your life with him and it will be very very sad to see you both split because of a silly doctrine. I hope this helps you in any way for your happiness.

Wishing you well

71

to join or not

by dontknow in

i've had in the past studied a little about the bible with jws but have yet decided to be baptised.. i've just read lavenders' moving letter to her son and her love and well being for him is very obvious.

i do like the bible teachings very much and to this day i'm very interested in the end of the system of things which will very soon come to fruition; i'm a very strong believer, however i must stipulate to all, in retrospect i'm not sinless.

one of the posters says that jw's ask you to do a liitle bible study with them, attend one of their meetings and when you get baptised you have to do exactly what you are instructed or else.

dontknow

Thank you Lady Liberty, Lavendar, thank you all for your precious time and efforts; I cannot thank you enough after reading your posts and sharing your experiences with me; I have really opened my eyes, mind and heart. My research will definitely continue to learn more not only about Jesus and Jehovah, but more importantly about the unwarranted strict rules and regulations the Watchtower society enforces upon those who innocently believe in the work of JWs. I have mentioned this site to JWs and all they said to me was that these people (meaning you) are apostates who have turned against God. They asked how I found about this site and I replied by doing a google search on the internet. They did not like it that I used the internet because you can get in serious trouble; I cannot see how that can happen if you use it to find information in a responsible manner.

As the conversation progressed, I realised that they think people use the internet frequently for all forms of pornography alone; that is definitely not the case with me I said; I use it to communicate with fellow woodworkers, woodturners, woodsuppliers, craft suppliers, stock market reports, newspaper articles and the list goes on. They expressed scepticsm, and I don't care; I am not obliged to disclose what I do. From all I've read, it is impossible for all of you to be wrong, even though we don't know each other we have learnt alot of each other through this magnificent useful tool called the internet.

Now, all you people what I noticed is that your experiences are very different to each other, however your experiences have one thing in common. That is, the elders who bend over backwards to enforce the WT rules over you with an iron fist if I may say, and to a lesser degree about the bible teachings; they place much more emphasis on the WT society that was created by man (Russell) and not Jehovah.

So far the most disturbing thing to me is that they "spy"on you to find out with whom you associate and what you do to reveal your true indentity to uncover if you are fit to be a worthy member. This very clearly reminds of the psyche of Nazi Germany; if you do not abide by our laws you will be punished. Now we all know that we humans are social creatures and want to be accepted in social groups and some will do anything to be accepted; but turning your back and hating, yes hating as I have read, none JWs is and always will be unconditionally unacceptable to me. I'll give an example about the double standard; I have a younger brother who is a happy fellow, has his friends, job and I get along well with him, is not involved in any devious activities, but has no interest in bible studies. According to the WT, if I become a JW, I must end my association with my blood brother becuase I start a "new cleansed life to serve God" and he is a worldly person. All humans throughout their life face difficulties; it could be disease, economic problems, physical and emotional problems, the list is endless. The point I'm trying to make is if my brother approaches me and asks me for $200 because his short on paying his gas bill (he's desperate and requires my brotherly help) am I to turn my back on him? If the elders find out that I helped my brother does that make me an apostate because I associated to assist him? If he falls ill and is taken to hospital, should I turn my back on him? DEFINITELY NO!!!!!

Jesus taught people to love and help one another, both christians and non christians. I have stated in a previous post Jehovah created man with a precious gift called a free will to exercise, think and do what is appropriate for him and not to have someones will imposed on him, the poster SWALKER states;

"You will not be allowed to exercise your free will once you become a baptized JW, although they will NOT tell you that in advance! If you value that gift, don't let any organization take it away from you".

This clearly illustrates to me, that they want to build a "secret" organisation to demonstrate they stand apart from other religious groups. Now I am very angry!!!!! WHY DON'T THEY INFORM AND POINT OUT TO POTENTIAL WITNESSES THE PRE REQUISITE CONDITIONS REQUIRED OF THEM BEFORE THEY ARE BAPTISED??? Is there fine print in the terms and conditions which need to be scrutinized? This to me is a very vicious trap. Does anyone have any answers for me please? I am obsessed to find out concrete facts so when they knock on my door again I want to know how and what to ask them and not be answered according to a well orchestated script of theirs because that will infuriate me. As you have noticed I DO NOT LIKE TO BE DECIEVED, and again I must praise the courage and resilience you all have, much more than me for all the years of unnecessary hardships you endured.

Many thanks to you all for your links which I will look into with ferocious appetite and especially Synergy for her story. I would like read more of your experience Synergy if permitted.

Thank you, not dontknow but now do know.

71

to join or not

by dontknow in

i've had in the past studied a little about the bible with jws but have yet decided to be baptised.. i've just read lavenders' moving letter to her son and her love and well being for him is very obvious.

i do like the bible teachings very much and to this day i'm very interested in the end of the system of things which will very soon come to fruition; i'm a very strong believer, however i must stipulate to all, in retrospect i'm not sinless.

one of the posters says that jw's ask you to do a liitle bible study with them, attend one of their meetings and when you get baptised you have to do exactly what you are instructed or else.

dontknow

Lady Liberty,

I've just read your story and I must say I have never heard of 607. What is it? Is Russell the founder of the watchtower society and a freemason? If this is correct, where can I found out more about him because freemasons are a secret organisation in collaboration with the skull and bones society who dominate the world; you know the current world power administration.

Cheers

71

to join or not

by dontknow in

i've had in the past studied a little about the bible with jws but have yet decided to be baptised.. i've just read lavenders' moving letter to her son and her love and well being for him is very obvious.

i do like the bible teachings very much and to this day i'm very interested in the end of the system of things which will very soon come to fruition; i'm a very strong believer, however i must stipulate to all, in retrospect i'm not sinless.

one of the posters says that jw's ask you to do a liitle bible study with them, attend one of their meetings and when you get baptised you have to do exactly what you are instructed or else.

dontknow

Thank you very much people; your replies have really opened my eyes from your experiences. I have nothing against the the bible, Jesus or God; but these elders need to get their act together and I won't have a bar of it, that is obeying the WT society and leaving my family, mother, brother, father and life long friends for being none JWs. These elders come across as off putting to say the least and although I love bible teachings, Jesus and Jehovah I am stuck between a rock and a hard place at the moment. Soon I will talk to JWs and ask a million questions before I make a concrete decision and if I get one sniff of any kind of deception and trickery I will remain as I am.

Once again thank you very much.

95

Starting my story...very long

by Synergy in

[the watchtower, july 15, 1961 issue, page 420: .

[the watchtower, july 1, 1963 issue, page 413: .

[the watchtower, july 15, 1974 issue, page 442: .

dontknow

Hello Synergy,

your experience, concise and lucid has made me have second thoughts about being baptised. I have studied the bible a long time ago with JWs and recently came into contact with the JW whom I studied with more than 20 years ago and continued discussing prophecies. I love bible teachings and learnt to love Jesus and Jehovah But after reading your post there is no way on earth I will ever swear allegiance to the Watchtower society but only have faith in Jesus and Jehovah. The bible does not state anything about swearing allegiance to a bible society on earth. I was taught that only false religions had doctrines but after reading your post you clearly stated a WT doctrine regulating the rules which must be unconditionally obeyed. I totally disagree with that because Jesus taught us to seek and we shall find; in other words question everything to find the truth. But these elders state that you can ask questions but cannot question the answer; true bible believers will begin to have doubts about how the congregation is run just like I have right now.

These elders seem to me to be self appointed within this society and make the decisions themselves; not from direct inspiration from God. An interesting point you made really attracted my attention where you state when one is disfellowed they are completely banished and branded child of the devil; one is not permitted to speak or have any association with the disfellowed. Does this mean if an ex JW has a heart attack in the presence of his/her former brothers and sisters they would not help? Jesus encourages us to prey for our enemy. It is extremely disgusting to be ridiculed in the presence of others and more so for a very young person. I think these elders have lost the plot and make life a lot more difficult for everyone than it already is. When they decide someone is to be kicked out of the congregation why is it necessary for them to brand someone child of the devil, worldly person? Why do they influence others not to have anything to do with the disfellowed; that is a form of complete filthy arrogance. Don't they know that God only decides who lives and who doesn't; "vengeance is mine" he says. Jesus also says "you must not judge" and as far as their "judicial" system is concerned where 2 witnesses are required to testify against a child molester to have any weight, we here in Australia call that a kangaroo court, meaning it is run by a pack of galahs. (A galah is a native Aussie bird that has a high screeching call and not much else going for it).

As I type these words, I feel for you and wish I was there to defend you in the most difficult times. I'm pausing now because it is extremely upsetting for me to read that you were molested when very young and the filthy perpetrator was exonerated and your baby daughter was smacked repeatedly in the kingdom hall for making baby noises......I don't know how you put up with it for so long; there is no way that this is the way of Jehovah to raise children. You have demonstrated to be a very resillient, strong person who knows what you need and please, please don't ever think about suicide again for anyone or anything; Jehovah created us to be happy, healthy and enjoy life not to be subjects of tyrrants.

71

to join or not

by dontknow in

i've had in the past studied a little about the bible with jws but have yet decided to be baptised.. i've just read lavenders' moving letter to her son and her love and well being for him is very obvious.

i do like the bible teachings very much and to this day i'm very interested in the end of the system of things which will very soon come to fruition; i'm a very strong believer, however i must stipulate to all, in retrospect i'm not sinless.

one of the posters says that jw's ask you to do a liitle bible study with them, attend one of their meetings and when you get baptised you have to do exactly what you are instructed or else.

dontknow

Hello all,

I've had in the past studied a little about the bible with JWs but have yet decided to be baptised.

I've just read Lavenders' moving letter to her son and her love and well being for him is very obvious. I do like the bible teachings very much and to this day I'm very interested in the end of the system of things which will very soon come to fruition; I'm a very strong believer, however I must stipulate to all, in retrospect I'm not sinless.

One of the posters says that JW's ask you to do a liitle bible study with them, attend one of their meetings and when you get baptised you have to do exactly what you are instructed or else. I'm asking you all what is this or else mean? Will you be given a difficult time?

The wintnesses I've spoken with didn't come across as unpleasant people; the magazines I've read always say that JWs love their fellow man and try to help others in difficult times.

The passage in the bible that says "an eye for an eye tooth for a tooth" as I would interpret it means an appropriate just punishement should be applied for a wrong doing. Does that mean if someone physically hits me I should hit back? If this is so, then why does Jesus say you must love your enemy and also if someone slaps your cheek turn the other cheek as well. Then doesn't this mean for example if a thief enters my house to rob and/or assault me I should let him do freely as he wishes (because Jesus said you must love your enemy) and I not raise my hand or stick against him to defend myself? Can you see how confusing this is. I don't know what to think; it's seems contadictory, can someone enlighten me please?

To become a witness requires a lot of deep thought and huge lifestyle changes but some things are very vague. I don't like the fact that as I have read in various posts a JW is shunned if he/she associates with non JWs; what is one to do; not speak or have anything to do with life long friends, just end the association? I don't think the bible states that anywhere; it does state to be wary and distance yourself from wrong doers (murderers, adulterers, people involved in disorderly conduct etc, etc).

From the many posts I've read about the unpleasant experiences ex JWs have been confronted with and some still do feel the ill effects, and although I like JWs very much I would go as far as calling them my friends, the worst thing I've read to date is the horrendous break up of happy families; children being dragged through ugly divorces because some in-laws follow the teachings to the extreme, if I may say something akin to military extreme and precision which they impose on their children. What I have discussed with JWs is that Jehovah created man with a precious gift called a free will to exercise, think and do what is appropriate for him and not to have someones will imposed on him.

Can someone out there who has travelled this road provide some advice regarding the above mentioned please.

Many thanks,

dontknow