Posts by saywhat29

319

Dan Savage talks about the bible and Christian students flee

by Terry in

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zap2it.comdan savage, bullying and the truth about gays and the biblehuffington post - 42 minutes agodan savage, bullying and the truth about gays and the bible... walked out of dan's speech the moment he began talking about the parts of the ...

saywhat29

Okay, I'm going to say that if they walked out, fine it was their right to. And Savage's right to call them out for walking out (word choice set aside). Using the word bullshit and pansy ass was poor word choice (I honestly don't care because we said way worse in high school because we were in high school...) AND I will add that Dan Savage doesn't usually silence or tone down his antics himself or change his wording. He is a columnist who became famous for his word choice, for his dismissive 'DTMFA' replies to lengthy columns of heartbreak and anguish, and for being 'down to earth' and a 'faggot'. If you have a problem with Savage your real problem is with the people who invited him because they knew what they were getting and they haven't denounced anything he's said since this stuff went viral.

back to the students. So they have the lega right to walk out and protest and not stand for what Savage is saying and they exercised it. There are pros and cons to this method of protest, one con being that no one gets to hear what you want or your counter argument. In a large group (large enough for all of this to go viral.. however it went viral two weeks after it happened so it needed to be pumped up by the anti gay groups) it can be effective and it was effective enough to warrant Dan's response. I would say after all it was effective; people heard and saw what he had said.

I have no problem with students walking out; that was never my concern. My concern was if they had staged the thing all along and their being used by other anti-gay groups.

Another thing. I get what you mean by disagreeing automatically means anti gay. I get that and I get how its not fair. But also get it from the other side (speaking as a gay man and not an allyas I think you've been arguing with allies in this thread but I might be mistaken?) Like I mentioned above of how these anti gay groups are all linking together, organizing in an effort to counter all the work the LGBT communities have been doing over the years, when someone does run into your comments, it might be someone's response to put on the armor and prepare for that anti-gay response because that is what we are use to. I don't think that, however, 3 years ago I may have because I was younger and was dealing with a whole lot of homophobia because its all around us.

319

Dan Savage talks about the bible and Christian students flee

by Terry in

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zap2it.comdan savage, bullying and the truth about gays and the biblehuffington post - 42 minutes agodan savage, bullying and the truth about gays and the bible... walked out of dan's speech the moment he began talking about the parts of the ...

saywhat29

To james_woods, I never said anything of the sort about those who disagree being anti gay. My argument is that this event is being used by anti-gay forces to attack Dan and through Dan a lot of other things he's connected to.

My argument also was that botch's logical fallcy of equivalency through this thread is staggering when arguing againt Savage. I'm well aware about Savage that he opens his big mouth and doesn't think. However, I won't chastise him when I'm aware of the true purpose of this media blitz against him.

319

Dan Savage talks about the bible and Christian students flee

by Terry in

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zap2it.comdan savage, bullying and the truth about gays and the biblehuffington post - 42 minutes agodan savage, bullying and the truth about gays and the bible... walked out of dan's speech the moment he began talking about the parts of the ...

saywhat29

Do I have a link proving that it was all a likely staged event on by the Family Research Council? No, I do not. Its mostly theory because of the connections. No problem in admitting that but honestly, would you put it past a Christian lobbying group to stage something like that?

http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2012/04/wingnuts-launch-campaign-against-dan.html

Dan Savage + Pro-Family Groups Response + Revelation of Pro Family Groups Connections to one another = too many coicidences for me.

I read a lot about gay politics so the connection between these groups- from Ex-Gay groups, the radical anti-anything gay- to the softer "I just want to defend marriage I have nothing againt homosexuals... except that I pity them"-groups is big because the mainstream mediocre groups claim to separate themselves from the former and try and appaear not as hateful and bigoted. Recently, they were all found to be linked to this secret Facebook account that gave members and others information to counteract and fight any pro gay media or leglisation efforts.

Pretty muchy they are now all connected in an effort to support each other in an effort to fight any lgbt. This attack against Dan has united a lot of them out in the open. Maggie Gallagher of NOM (National Organization of Marriage) calling for Obama to denounce the It Gets Better Program; Peter LaBarara's attempt to slander Dan at another event; FRC and other pro family/conservative groups getting the response of the students ever so quickly or denouncing Savage altogether.

Yes, its part speculation (about their involvement in this event of students walking out but I just don't believe it), but its also part common sense that you have to do in order to put the pieces together. The only thing I had wrong (I had to go back and actually research the event in full) was that the event didn't take place on the Day of Dialogue, but the FRC got the information rom the students and released it on the Day of Dialogue in order to discredit Savage and ultimately the Day of Silence (which takes place I believe two days prior).

319

Dan Savage talks about the bible and Christian students flee

by Terry in

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zap2it.comdan savage, bullying and the truth about gays and the biblehuffington post - 42 minutes agodan savage, bullying and the truth about gays and the bible... walked out of dan's speech the moment he began talking about the parts of the ...

saywhat29

No, I mean staged by the Family Resarch Council. This wasn't somethig that a bunch of students staged by their lonesome selves in some band of Christians tired of being not heard (lol). Anti-gay groups have been trying to attack Dan for a while, along with the Day of Silence efforts that happens nationally across schools all over. They would have walked out no matter what. the topic was brought up on purpose for them to walk out to begin with.

Politcal atmosphere is nothing but a stage, darling.

Recently at another talk, another big anti-gay bigwig Peter LaBarbera also argued with Dan Savage at a conference and went on Twitter to whine of his treatment and how he was silenced for adressing his viewpoint. Dan had to literally chase down the woman he argued with and the cop that did the removal to get their statements in order for folks to not think he's tossing out folks fro his talks that disagree with him.

Its an effort that anti-gay groups are doing together, working together in order to tarnish Dan Savege and, ultimtely, his work with the It Gets Better program. And through him, the involvement of the Obama Administration.

Like I said, this is not the actions of a few students fighting the oppressive voice of angry vocal atheists or gay groups, however thats the spin that this is trying to get.

319

Dan Savage talks about the bible and Christian students flee

by Terry in

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zap2it.comdan savage, bullying and the truth about gays and the biblehuffington post - 42 minutes agodan savage, bullying and the truth about gays and the bible... walked out of dan's speech the moment he began talking about the parts of the ...

saywhat29

Um I hope folks that are opposed to Dan Savage's speech know that the Walk out was more than likely planned/staged? I hope they realized that the date of the talk fell on the Family Research Council's inspired Day of Dialogue or whatever where christian parents pulled their kids out of school to protest the Day of Silence?

I hope they also realize that as soon as the students walked out, the Family Research Council and other pro-family groups were already in the area and had the accounts and comments of all the students that walked out. And since the event happened, no other news outlet has even bothered to get the students comments either (wonder why they are so quiet... maybe because they aren't allowed t talk to anyone else).

However, all the folks on Dan Savage's side need to realize that Savge is a reactionist; he doesn't always think before he speaks and it leads to say horrible shit. I've followed Dan's work and he's made lots of folks in the LGBT community highly pissed off for the things he's said (because they weren't factual based and were bred out of ignorance or his feelings at the moment, as if he's not a seasoned public figure who should know better.)

Reading this thread, Botch has a problem with trying to draw a connection or equivalent between someone who is 'pro gay' (or anti-christianity' or whatever)and someone who is not. Trying to equate Dan Savage to Westboro or Rick Santorum is weak and I'm surprised he'd do that. Its a problem some people (no shade, usually men, not surprisingly white men do it a lot) have when they see folks express anger or an opinion about the majority, non-oppressed groups actions. A member of different, less priveleged group expresses themselves, whether they are right and wrong, and somehow their feelings are branded just as hateful and damaging to others as much as the damage or discrimination that has been done to their community. Its the same kind of response have when women express anger to discrimination, then they are feminazis or manhaters.

Rick Santorum worked effortlessly to deny the LGBT community rights and when Lawrence v. Texas ended sodomy laws, he wrote an op-ed piece comparing the relationships of LGB people to that of man on animal relations and condemn the overturning of the laws. He's supported bills to deny people rights, even admitted that he'd make sure gay people couldn't even adopt children in any circumstance... and Dan Savage is the equivalent of that. Westboro has terrorized gay people for decades now and they've only gained the attention they've garnered these days when they started protesting dead soldier's funerals. But before that, when they were protesting gay funerals no one gave a goddamn. However, you Botch equate the two effortlessly as if somehow on some scale they are comparable.

Even after all of this, what Christian is suffering from his words? Could they have been better chosen? Hell yes. Were they the worse thing ever said to a bunch of high schoolers? I'm pretty sure those kids left that auditorium and SAID way worse things ;-P

Oh. And hey everyone!

67

Gayest Cities In America

by Bangalore in

gayest cities in america.. http://www.advocate.com/printarticle.aspx?id=172392.

bangalore.

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saywhat29

Shamus, I'm sorry but your gay card is being held for review-

How in the world do you not know what LGBT means? Oh girl... I don't know... *gives you a suspicious look*

The Union of Homosexuals will be reviewing your Gay work over the years but I would suggest you brush up on your gay history because there may be a test.

24

Latest Big Love reaction at the undercover house...

by undercover in

jw
friends

so i dvrd the last couple of episodes of big love.

wasn't able to watch them at first broadcast the last couple of weeks.. we've watched this series from it's start and haven't missed an episode.

as the cultishness of the compound and even bill's family became more central to the story...and the off-hand criticisms of the 'real' mormon church are leveled, i sense mild anxiety at times while watching the show.

saywhat29

I luuuhv Big Love. So few people i know in RL watch it. Can I have a "Squuee-lets gab on where the show is going moment?-

Okay, so last season and this season seem so different, doesn't it?. Nicki is so out of it and I'm actually tired of her daughter's storyline; if they axed her or made her run away it would probably be better for Nicki altogether. I don't care about her dead daddy, don't care about the child growing in Nicki's mothers uterus, or if Caroline ever found out about it. I don't care and I simply can't. Last season is over; move on. Make that girl run off to 'discover herself or something'. I feel the same way about Ben (Bill's son) His storyline seems over; the eldest daughters are now gone and he's still there for what reason?

Alby I feel for, but I then don't as well. He's not the villain that Roman was nor can he be; we know too much about him and have been in his head too much.We're sympathetic to the monster he's becoming I guess because we know how tortured and effed he really is. Re: last night's episode? That look he gave that kid last night after they tried to Blackmail the Grant family; don't know if the writers were conveying "Gay Sex Stare' or what and the next meeting between that low life-guy and Alby could be interesting 'cause I know he wants Bill's head on a stick bad.

Margene; she seems too stupid right now, like forced to be stupid for a really lame plot- that I don't know what to think. She was a smart savvy businesswoman last season and made so much money and was financially independent and now she's involved in an obvious pyramid scheme? And I'm surprised that no one around them has caught onto it and saved her from it? Her being 16 and marrying Bill does seem like a fun storyline and I don't mind that one bit.

Barb's storyline isn't bad either and I'm liking her; she's always been the one I connected with out of all of these characters.

Bill? I can take or leave Bill. He used to be an interesting character and last season I was all behind him but now I'm tired of him and I'm tired of the whole polygamy deal altogether as if thats the only reason he wanted to become a Senator in the first place; but that is all he has going on for him. The Casino is gone, sadly and the store is not doing so well. If it all fell down, I think that'd be the most important thing to see. His losing everything because it can't continue like this.Dealing with his mom has been interesting but he hasn't really dealt with it; his wives have.

And more importantly, I suspect that Barb will be the one to leave the marriage altogther where she is headed and I'm liking this.

Okay I'm done!

Can I say that I'm surprised she watches it to begin with with all the adult content. I guess being married to a 'wordly' person has worn away her spiritual armor!!!!! But I have to admit if she's aking these connections and responding that way thats the best thing ever for you. Most Jws when they see that stuff can't make the connection whatsoever; so I can't relate. To everyone else, Jwsare a cult. But to Jws they are in a 'sect'... because thats what they've been told they are.

21

Joel P. Engardio's article on JWs (Washington Post)

by behemot in

jw
friends

jehovah's witnesses: a model for church and state begin blogger thumbs end blogger thumbs by joel p. engardio.

if i'm ever allowed to legally marry, my mother won't attend my wedding.. i'm a gay man and my mom is one of jehovah's witnesses.

to remain true to her faith, she can't in good conscience be part of a same-sex marriage celebration.

saywhat29

Oooh, PSacramento, I think you pretty much nailed it. Obviously, this guy has some sort of working relationship with his family despite being gay when he knows tons of others who don't because they are gay, when he knows of others who have no relationship with their family due to the stuff teh Watchtower has done, and doesn't even mention it because at least they won't vote against the gays.

Selfish and it shows in his fluff documentary by never mentioning any criticism of anything JW because he knew what he wanted or needed. It would have been interesting if he had made a documentary as a fluff piece and then followed it up with the other side, but nope.

'Knocking' was nothing more than a written love note to his JW mother in an effort to get her to ignore the fact that he's gay and will die on her god's holy war day. Its quite sad, but there are tons of people out there like Mr. Engardio, and sad to say that if his life turns to hell, he would find himself one day back in a kingdom hall.

*shudders* So sad.

38

Elders calling me in an hour

by bottleofwater in

jw
friends

okay, if you haven't figured me out yet, read my past forum posts.. so the 2 elders wanted to meet up with me for the last time today to talk to me, but i told them that i want to talk on the phone and not in person as i can speak more freely and have less inhibitions.. they found out that i had committed acts of homosexuality with a few people and they still want to keep me in the congregation somehow.. i, myself, don't feel repentant over what i did and don't really regret much.

if i came across an opportunity to actually be in a relationship with someone and it were to appeal to me, i could potentially take that opportunity.. so now, i need to know what to tell them when they call me in an hour from now.

i want to be able to let them know that i don't mind being disfellowshipped and that i'm not repentant.

saywhat29

My only thing I would caution you about is your family and if you can deal with the ramifications of being DF because it could be a totaly abstract to you until they are hanging up on you and you aren't seeing them for some time. Can you deal with that? because you could easily fade? I don't get why you're meeting with them to begin with.

If you don't care, then do you and take back your power, wish them well and move on. But the way you keep posting every little response they do, it shows that you may be a bit young and inexperience in matters that could affect you in the long term.

You made a meeting with them even when you could have easily told them you're not up for it, that you would speak with them later or easily lied and said that you had something to do during that time. You didn't. So...

Honestly, you have your answer and you dont need to post to a forum for 'WHAT SHOULD I SAY?!?!?!"

You already said it. If you want to know what to say to avoid a DF so you can fade, then just say you stumbled, thought about and, lol as straight people loved this bit, "You'e confused and that you've been reading things and that you're feeling depressed." They'll back off, read some scriptures and follow up, and when they follow up just say you're busy.

I don't get how they got you on a phone in a age with caller-ID and cell phones. Ignore, ignore ignore and tell them you got sick 'cause of the stress.

There are tons of stuff you can do and say.

64

Get the elders to leave me alone!!

by bottleofwater in

my dad read something online that i posted and told the other elders (he's the boe coord.).

they've read me articles about homosexuality and tried to coerce me to stay with the family instead of living with my uncle for a week.

i went to my uncle's anyway.

saywhat29

Some of you are really insane with the whole 'Your 19, lolz get out' bit. We all come here day in and day out and complain about the craziness we've all had because of the power we all gave to these people and your browbeating a 19 year old whose spent his whole life listening to these people for not being able to clearly see his options. And may be it never occured to you but like a lot of witness kids, how this religion stunts some kids (and pushes others to be the wildest out of the bunch) so a 19 year old can really not be that much different from a 16 year old? Does this kid sound mature to you all?

Stop it. Stop being being douchebags because its not easy to just up and take that power-at 19 and 'be your own man' when a good majority of us/you all either still do lie about your feelings about the WTBS to appease your family and keep peace or have done so some time in your life. So, knock it off! Wth, did you join the army or go to school right away? Did you not have to deal with the elders and their craziness or deal with the fear or losing your family?

Look bottleofwater, the way they are saying it may not be the nicest or appropriate way but they are right- you are your own person, seperate and apart from your family; but most people don't have to worry about the fear of losing their family for being who they are or what they believe in. In the culture we have and growing up the way most of us have grown up you probably have enough internalized homophobias that talking with any elder or person about your feelings may seem like the WORST THING EVER OMGZ.

You say you pioneered and its basically been your whole life- can I ask you if you still believe in it? Because I know back when I came out to myself I had mentally tortured myself for some time with the indecisiveness and your actions kind of remind me of my own and I laugh at my self now 'cause it seems like such a different person ago.

I get why you don't want to talk to the elders or anybody or get browbeating about your gay or any gayness or the troof and it may be hard but all you really have to do is just say you don't feel like talking about it right now. Hell, its the truth. You don't. You don't have to talk to anybody until your damn ready. Don't get mad at them though; your parents albiet in their own selfish and messed up way are just scared of losing you and will act and say some stupid and rash stuff that they'll eventually will hate themselves later on.

So, stop hiding and pick up the phone, call your dad and mom and tell him you don't feel like talking. Tell him that you're fine, everything will be okay, but you need space to think and that he needs to respect that. And after that, just breathe. Dont go out in field service, dont go to a meeting unless you want to and 'do you' as they say. They technically can't DF you until they have proof or reason and saying your gay isn't an automatic sentence.

So breathe, relax, go do something you like doing and yes little by little take back your control that you didn't know you had and enjoy your life!