Posts by skeptic1914

46

Parallels between Jonestown and WT org?

by skeptic1914 in

how many saw the recent "jonestown-paradise lost" on the history channel?

i realize the suicide/murder of over 900 in jonestown, guyana on novemebr 18, 1978 may be old news but i've always been interested in how cult leaders hold power over their believers.

i've been reluctant to classify jw as a cult but some obvious parallels struck me:.

skeptic1914

How many saw the recent "Jonestown-Paradise Lost" on the History channel? I realize the suicide/murder of over 900 in Jonestown, Guyana on Novemebr 18, 1978 may be old news but I've always been interested in how cult leaders hold power over their believers. I've been reluctant to classify JW as a cult but some obvious parallels struck me:

The way FEAR was used to control the group; everything outside of the group was evil.
You couldn't openly question the leader w/o fear of reprisal.
It was almost impossible to get out once you were in.

I had read "Seductive Poison" by Deborah Layton about 8 yrs ago. She was part of the inner circle of People's Temple and provided a rare look "behind the curtain" of this wizard. She barely escaped with her life.

At that point I was still a "believer", still believed I was "in the truth" but even then could see parallels in the dynamics of Jim Jones' organization and "God's organization". Any comments?

Skeptic1914

26

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 3-18-07 WT Study (Your Appreciation)

by blondie in

comments you will not hear at the 02-18-07 wt study (february 1, 2007, pages 22-25)(your appreciation).

review comments will be in red.

wt material from today's wt will be in black.

skeptic1914

Thanks, Blondie. I'll probably end up going to this WT study at the KH. I hope I can get through it w/o gagging. Recently (I think it was the last CO visit) the apx half-million baptized in the last 2 yrs was cited as evidence of Jah's blessing. Of course a closer look at the stats reveals that for every 5 baptized, 3 are no longer publishing. Of course in many western countries there is even negative growth. Oh how I would love make a "comment you will not hear.." at tomorrow's study...but I don't have the guts.

People believe what they want to believe and the truth is not that important to many in "The Truth".

Skeptic1914

7

"Unofficial" disfellowshipping?

by Rethinking in

have any of you or anyone you know been "unofficially" disfellowshipped?

or has anyone on here who is/ was an elder "unofficially" disfellowshipped anyone?

for lack of a better term.

skeptic1914

The elders in my cong are aware that I don't subscribe anymore to certain WT teachings and that this is why I can no longer in good conscience preach the [JW] "Kingdom message". I,ve been inactive for over 3 yrs. They also know I continue to work for an xjw. Not "just" xjw but an "apostate" who, by the way, is now pastor of a community church in his locality. He used to be PO in my very cong and everybody knows him.

Is it any wonder then that, while everyone is cordial to me at the KH (I attend a couple times a month with my inactive but still believing wife) NO ONE has any social contact with us or calls to see how we are (save 1 or 2). I've never been told if they had a "marking" talk for me. Whether or not they did the result is the same. I call it shunning with a small "s".

Skeptic1914

43

Is It Impossible To Reach A Devout JW ???

by minimus in

jw
friends

i wonder.

a very typcal witness may see the obvious negatives that jws know they have.

they might acknowledge that there's often a lack of love, that the elders can be demanding, that "new light" can change long cherished beliefs in an instant.......but still they cling on and resist any sort of intellectual discussion as to why the witnesses are off soooooo many times.....what gives??

skeptic1914

Doubting Bro said,

For myself, I could debate until the cows came home but there is no way anyone could have reached me. Thats because I wasn't really listening to the other side, I was thinking about what I was going to say next.

JW or any thoroughly-indoctrinated person seems to have an uncanny ability to block out rational thought when presented with ideas that conflict with their own. People believe what they WANT to believe and many are too lazy to think for themselves.

There is actually an interesting WT article that touches on these points (7/15/03 pp 21-23 "Thonk Stright-Act Wisely").

In dealing with some of my family members it has become obvious that the truth is not that important to many in "The Truth".

Skeptic1914

3

Happy

by bluebell in

a post about shunning and how we didnt have to just accept it but could show that our door of unconditional love was open even if theirs was shut prompted me to e-mail an immediate family member who i had not seen since a grandparents funeral (i am not da/df but faded too quick and married to non dub).. just came back from coffee with them, and when they left they thanked me for suggesting that we meet up!

this person is a pioneer and maybe didnt feel comfortable suggesting it themselves?!

yay.

skeptic1914

Congrats Blubell. This reminded of something I read recently in a newsletter published by a former JW where a daughter who was actually Df'd refused to comply with her mother's request to leave and never come back. Bottom line: it worked and she has found a way to maintain a relationship w/her Mom. Granted some JW are just too hard-line and will shun not only Df'd/Da'd but inactive or meeting non-attenders (that's how they treat me even though I show up Sunday maybe twice a month).

Skeptic1914

10

Doubters, Newbies, Lurkers: Do others do your thinking for you? from Awake

by OnTheWayOut in

take a look at this awake article.

i will make a few small comments in red (in parenthesis), but leave the .

bulk of commenting for others to add on.

skeptic1914

Great reference. I remember Ray Franz referring to this article in CoC or ISoCF.

Another article along this line is in the 7/15/2003 Wt. pp 21-23. It's called "Think Straight-Act Wisely".

Skeptic1914

16

Get a load of this video... Mad Jw's at the door!!!

by AK - Jeff in

is this staged?

i noticed the man kept calling the householder 'brother', i never heard that done in the ministry.

opinions?.

skeptic1914

BOGUS

Skeptic1914

17

Are elders what they used to be?

by BluesBrother in

when i was a young and idealistic elder - the attitude that was stressed continually was this one :.

christiangreatnesscomesfromserving.

"among you, whoever wants to be great must be your servant."matt.

skeptic1914

Ditto that zack

288

Did the heavenly calling cease in 1935? Not anymore!

by AnnOMaly in

watch out for the questions from readers in the may 1st 2007 watchtower.

"when does the calling of christians to a heavenly hope cease?

" it's a good'un.. included are the statements:.

skeptic1914

most people wouldn't even put two and two together about how they rest their claim of authority on the 1919 appointment.... And the Society hasn't used it as a basis in any significant way for years.

I disagree. When we studied the two Isaiah books it seemed like everything that ever been prophesied found fulfillment in the experiences of the "anointed remnant" in 1919. Someone earlier in thus thread referred to a 2004 WT (I think it was March issue) that laid out the fairy tale of 1914 and the significance of 1919. The previous CO seemed to talk about it every visit.

Even if it is not stressed in print, the fact remains that the FDS/GB DO derive their authority from this fictitious date.

Ditto on Drew Sagan's comment (and others) about being MUCH more aware of what is in the WT and what it means, etc. since our brain-dead involvement in the movement. And because they brain-dead or at least do no critical analysis of what they are "fed", this will not raise an eyebrow w/the average dub.

Skeptic1914

16

Why is the "Faithful and Discreet " parable literal when others are not?

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

in the 10/1 1998 watchtower study article titled,''jehovah,a god merciful and gracious'' there is a footnote that reads:.

parables and other illustrations related in the bible did not necessarily take place in actuality.futhermore,since the purpose of these stories is to teach a moral lesson,there is no need to seek a symbolic meaning in every detail.. matthew 24:45-47, in the new world translation, reads "who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?

happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so.

skeptic1914

A poster named "AliveinChrist" on channelc.org discusses this very question in detail. (A Feb 24 post, I believe)

Skeptic1914