Posts by Farkel

53

What is "Right?"

by Farkel in

jw
friends

i responded to your comments on another post, but i feel this issue is just too important and deserves its own thread.. -----------------------------------------------------.

: even the most righteous believer of god would tend to quote abraham: is the judge of all the earth not going to do what is right?

(gen 18:25).

Farkel

Jst2laws,

I responded to your comments on another post, but I feel this issue is just too important and deserves its own thread.

-----------------------------------------------------

Jst2laws,

You said:

: Even the most righteous believer of God would tend to quote Abraham: “Is the Judge of all the earth not going to do what is right?” (Gen 18:25)

I want you to read and re-read and re-read that sentence, because there is much to be learned from it.

WHY did a paltry human like Abraham have to ASK God to for HIM do what was RIGHT? Read the whole 18th chapter. Abraham asked God that question a BUNCH of times. Why? Why didn't God know what was "right" in the first place? HE set up the rules about "right" and "wrong" and now we have a human begging him to play by rules that a human KNEW was right, yet God didn't seem to get it until he was persuaded to do so by Abraham.

JanH and I have both written essays on this matter, because it is a very serious matter. That chapter you cited clearly implies that "right" exists OUTSIDE of the realm of God as a standard HE must reach. God either declares by divine fiat what is "right" or he refers to an outside reference of "right" that he is beholden to. This 18th chapter of Genesis proves that Abraham himself KNEW the standard and humbly coaxed God into following that standard. It can be no other way. Why? Because God relented to Abraham that's why. Abraham cut a deal with God over the issue of "what is right."

Therefore God cuts deals over what is right and what is wrong and is just as clueless as the rest of us. The Bible God is, anyway.

If Abraham was right, then God is NOT the standard of ALL right and wrong: there is a standard outside of him that he should and hopefully must live up to. If Abraham was wrong, that whole episode is just another uninspired story.

Farkel

58

My god!

by mommy in

jw
friends

i just posted a reply to shelby aka aguest on another thread.

i can say it was the most emotional post of my life here at jw.com.

i don't want it lost.

Farkel

Jst2laws,

You said:

: Even the most righteous believer of God would tend to quote Abraham: “Is the Judge of all the earth not going to do what is right?” (Gen 18:25)

I want you to read and re-read and re-read that sentence, because there is much to be learned from it.

WHY did a paltry human like Abraham have to ASK God to for HIM do what was RIGHT? Read the whole 18th chapter. Abraham asked God that question a BUNCH of times. Why? Why didn't God know what was "right" in the first place? HE set up the rules about "right" and "wrong" and now we have a human begging him to play by rules that a human KNEW was right, yet God didn't seem to get it until he was persuaded to do so by Abraham.

JanH and I have both written essays on this matter, because it is a very serious matter. That chapter you cited clearly implies that "right" exists OUTSIDE of the realm of God as a standard HE must reach. God either declares by divine fiat what is "right" or he refers to an outside reference of "right" that he is beholden to. This 18th chapter of Genesis proves that Abraham himself KNEW the standard and humbly coaxed God into following that standard. It can be no other way. Why? Because God relented to Abraham that's why. Abraham cut a deal with God over the issue of "what is right."

Therefore God cuts deals over what is right and what is wrong and is just as clueless as the rest of us. The Bible God is, anyway.

If Abraham was right, then God is NOT the standard of ALL right and wrong: there is a standard outside of him that he should and hopefully must live up to. If Abraham was wrong, that whole episode is just another uninspired story.

Farkel

31

The CO's visit

by OrangeBlossom in

jw
friends

this past week was the visit of our circuit overseer.

i know what you are thinking so before i post some of his comments that i personally found interesting, i only went to keep peace in the family and not give rise to suspicion about my true feelings.

so with that said, here are some things that grabbed my attention.. 1) his talk thursday nite was about being successful and how the world's view of success is far different than the organizations.

Farkel

Orangeblossom,

Fascinating stuff, and very revealing!

: 1) His talk Thursday nite was about being Successful and how the world's view of success is far different than the organizations. He was quite proud that many in the org are not highly educated, heck some can't even read.

That explains a lot of Watchtower magazine material over the years.

:I kept thinking of Maximus' post on the society view of college. The CO was quite concerned, as well as the GB, that many young people upon graduating from high school have chosen to go to work or college and not pioneer. He further brought out that of the few young ones that do go into the pioneer work, most are girls.

What's wrong with girls doing the preaching? As long as they do the grocery shopping and housecleaning and child-rearing, that is. They shouldn't forget their head-covering, either. After all, the guys are GODS in the dub family. This is Biblical, you know.

: Parents of boys were strongly encouraged to place pioneering as the goal after finishing high school. "We should not encourage our children to be financially secure, but financially responsible."

These days that shit is not only irresponsible to say, it is immoral and will ruin so many people who believe it, that I don't want to even think about it. This world's technology is moving so quickly that such a statement as that would doom yet ANOTHER generation of dubs into poverty. I'm sick to my stomach.

: 2) The society is very concerned about the number missing from the meetings. In fact, our CO said that in our circuit, there is an average of 2 to 10 publishers that have "left the truth" each time he goes back to a congregation. He visits approximately 20 congregations twice a year, so a minimum of 2(pubs) times 20 (congs) times 2 (visits per year) adds up to approximately anywhere from 80 (minimum) to 200 (maximum) people leaving the borg a year in our circuit alone.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ are not coming in. Bottom line.

: 3) His final talk was geared toward those in the congregation called "passive attenders" and how if they had ANY doubts in their minds that this was not God's organization, they had better do whatever it takes to prove to themselves that Jehovah is using the FDS as his channel.

In other words, "don't read anything about our religion that we don't tell you to read." Pathetic.

: He mentioned that more than once. BYW, I guess I am a passive attender, since I never participate and occasionally attend.

Three times for emphasis. I'll give him a "G" for that on his report card.

: Overall, I got the sense that the GB is trying to reach those who have had contact with "apostates."

Yeah, facts tend to mess up a cult more than anything else.

: I feel like there is going to be a real push to weed out such ones in the very near future. They have to know that there are many that do not believe that it's the truth anymore but are hanging on so that they do not lose family and friends.

This has happened before and it will happen again. It happened in the 1917 schism when Chuckie died, it happened in 1925, it happened in 1932, and 1938. It happened in 1975 and 1981. The "society" is used to it. They will keep their core of believers even if it only represents 1/3 of their former membership, and they will go on. This has happened to them before.

Parasites always find a way to survive.

Farkel

18

Flat earth myths of Alan F

by Rex B13 in

jw
friends

man, even pagan man, has always known that the earth was a sphere!

the hebrews knew it first, because god told them six times in the old testament that the earth was a sphere.

that was sufficient for believers!

Farkel

dub-dub,

: Make no mistake. I hold Columbus in very high regard. Columbus was a Christian missionary. His stated purpose in sailing to the Orient was to take the Gospel to an unsaved world.

Make no mistake. I hold Columbus in the lowest of regard. Columbus was a fortune seeker and one of the biggest dirtbags who ever existed. His stated purposes was noble and all of that, but the plain truth is he brought disease and particularly syphylis to an "unsaved world." Therefore, he "saved" them by having them die horrible deaths from European diseases.

Shall we now talk about the other Spanish "Christians" who followed and "helped" those natives on their own land who never asked for any help? Shall we talk about entire decimated cultures and civilizations because "Christians" wanted to find gold and didn't give a shit who they killed or what they did to find it?

"Christian" history is full of misery for the folks who got in the way of the "true believers."

Christianity is a Snare and a Racket. Da Judge got one thing right. He probably said that during those few minutes per day when he was sober.

Praise Jeeeeeeeezzzzzuuuuzzzz and all he has spawned!

Farkel

55

GB Split Over Bible vs. Policy

by Maximus in

jw
friends

please read the following brief paragraph carefully: .

"once again, the ruling ecclesiastical class suppressed efforts to make gods word available to their flock.

they violently silenced a voice that pointed to some of the errors of their non-biblical beliefs.

Farkel

Greetings Nicodemus!

: You are absolutely correct that the article is fascinating on many levels. My take at the time was that it was written by someone very intelligent and perceptive, and also with a keen sense of certain ironies.

Yes! The irony! I've talked with several of my friends about how this kind of stuff could "slip" out into the rags. I can only see a narrow range of possibilities as to why this can happen. AGuest (Shelby J.) was quite correct when she stated that the GB has not had anything to do with what goes in the rags since the early 1970's. She told me that in her meeting with Lloyd Barry, he said exactly that. I didn't believe her at first, but I had it confirmed from those who know. Shelby, I confronted you on this, but you were right and I was wrong. My apologies to you. If it doesn't involve a change in doctrine or policy, the GB get their magazines delivered to their rooms at the same time as every other Bethelite, and they get to read them at that time. Just like everyone else in Bethel.

So, how many possible reasons could there be for this kind of stuff to "slip" into the rags?

1) The liberal faction in Writing wants to subtley convey WT hypocrisy to those R&F who can think.

2) Too many Bethelites are interested in getting this "issue" out and probably like most dubs, they never read the crap that is in it, anyway. It just "slips" by, in that case. Aware dubs will get the message. Braindead dubs will remain braindead and call it "spiritually deep" or "refreshing" without having a clue about what it really says.

3) The WT writers are fully aware of their own hypocricy, but are so used to getting away with it for a dozen decades that they shamelessly try it again.

Are there other possibilities I haven't considered? I'm sure their are. Let's hear them!

: The sad thing to me is that I didn't hear much talk about this article from local brothers and sisters I know.

You must know a lot of braindead dubs. Even worse, you must know a lot of smart dubs who can see the irony, but are too afraid to bring it up.

I wished I could help more of them to think, but I'm doing my best: I'm "shakin' the bush, boss. Shakin' the bush."

Farkel

175

Do you want the real truth or not?

by Jason in

jw
friends

on this website there seems to be so many lies and so little actual truth.

is this supposed to be a place to get answers or confuse the hell out of truth seekers?

well, for you seekers out there, if you find the truth on this site it'll be a major fluke.

Farkel

Jason,

: This is a very important topic and I am glad you could point out this intersting new evidence to me.

I had to do somthing. You haven't presented squat in the way of evidence. Besides that, wouldn't you agree that "busts" are much more exciting than "Arks" that allegedly existed 4500 years ago, or so?

I would. How did 8 people have time to feed those critters and deal with their poop? How many poop shovels would that take? Have you ever seen just ONE elephant dump? Just ONE? Shoot. That would take at least five minutes to scoop up and heave overboard. And that would only be true if the elephants and the other big guys like rhinos were on the top of the three levels. If they were on the bottom level, Noah and kin will have to haul those dumps from those two elephants up three decks to toss them overboard. This would take a number of trips. What about their pee? Don't tell me! I know! They had a drain plug in the bottom of the Ark! Duh! I should have known.

It's all bullshit, er elephantshit.

Farkel

21

The WTs Biggest Deceptions

by individual in

jw
friends

i was just wondering what do the members of this board think the biggest deception in the teaching of the watchtower society is?.

one of the biggest deceptions for me, one that stuck like a thorn in my side was their deception on earthquakes, hence my previous thread on the last days.

the wts, as i recall, published supposed proof of the increase in earthquakes since 1914. i was so angry when i found out that this was an outright lie.

Farkel

: One of the biggest deceptions for me, one that stuck like a thorn in my side was their deception on earthquakes, hence my previous thread on the last days.

That's nothin'!

Their absolute BIGGEST deception is blatantly obvious: They claim they speak for God.

Given all of their lies, flip-flops and false predictions/prophecies, deceptions/lies don't get any bigger than that. They are the "gang that couldn't shoot straight" in practice, but in spoken word they are "God's Sole Mouthpiece For Mankind(tm)."

Either God is really stupid or His claimed sole representatives are frauds. Either way, it's not a pretty sight.

Farkel

137

Freedom of Thought and JW Opposers

by dunsscot in

jw
friends

does freedom of thought really obtain in this forum?

are those who have left god's organization and jehovah god himself actually now more open-minded and unbiased?

if those who espouse atheistic thoughts or those who believe every vile utterance spoken against jehovah's people think they are now speaking from some olympian perspective, i beg to differ.

Farkel

dunny boy,

:Why, I could never do what Greg Stafford has done. First, he has written a magisterial work that definitively "puts paid" to the criticisms of JW opposers.

I have a personal friend who is a professor of Humanities and Religion at a major University. He is more well-versed on JWs than even most informed "apostates." He's studied them their history, and their doctrines for twenty years and has written a number of essays on the movement. As a friend, he would do most anything for me I asked and that he could actually do.

Another professor friend of mine and I obtained a copy of Stafford's book and offered him several hundred dollars if he would write a critique on just ONE chapter of Greg's book and attach his name to it.
We wanted to do this, because Stafford holds himself out to be a "scholar," but I've seen no peer-review of his book. We wanted the opinion of a professional academic who is an expert on the subject of JWs.

My friend read the book and declined. He said the book was unscholarly and unworthy of review.

So much for that "magisterial work" that "definitively 'puts paid' to the criticisms of JW opposers.' An esteemed one of his own peers considers it unworthy of scholarly review.

Greg may be a big-shot in dubland, but he's a nobody in academia. But saying that is almost redundant, isn't it?

As for the rest of your comments, I'll review them and see if you actually answered any of my questions and challenges. I don't consider a "response" from you to necessarily be an answer, by the way.

Give Greg my regards, and tell him most of us think he'll be joining our ranks pretty darn soon. The fit is about to hit the shan in WatchTowerLand. Smart people don't stay in that world and Greg is a very smart individual: he's just wasting his time trying to defend the indefensible.

Farkel

9

A Gospel of LOVE or a Gospel of HATE?

by JanH in

jw
friends

" (the watchtower, 10/15 1958, pp.

" (the watchtower, 7/1 1967, pp.

" (the watchtower, 12/1 1961, pp.

Farkel

Cheers Jan!

There are articles and essays that belong in the esteemed status of "Legendary." This one of yours is in that status. I don't know if you know it or not, but that article is the one I have linked others to more than any other over the last four or five years. It's an incredibly powerful tool to use when dubs start harping about how they are the only religion that shows "true(tm)" love among themselves. After having read that article the harping stops instantly. I've never yet seen a dub even ATTEMPT to justify their much-trumpeted "love" for others after I've pointed that article out to them. Strange, isn't it?

Keep recycling that one from time-to-time as there are always new ones lurking and that article is timeless.

Great job!

Farkel

2

To Farkel

by Tina in

jw
friends

hey fark,.

did the book arrive safely?

didnt see anything about it in my mail....luv,t

Farkel

Hi Tina,

Yes it did. Thank you for returning it. I'll write you privately, ok?

Farkel