Creeper

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Posts by Creeper

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  44

  covenant, Ark of...

  by Priest73 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hummm.

  i'm sitting here watching the history channel (digging for the truth -great show.

  ) anyway a thought just occurred to me.

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  Creeper

  I humbly accept your words and will take them to heart. I love you and hope for the best for you and yours, Shalom.
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  44

  covenant, Ark of...

  by Priest73 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hummm.

  i'm sitting here watching the history channel (digging for the truth -great show.

  ) anyway a thought just occurred to me.

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  Creeper

  To me sir, this conversation lacks any tact as far as promoting the work of God in one's heart, the humility, respect and passion for wisdom and honesty that comes from accurate study. There is really no importance in continuing this discussion. Even if I satisfy your question with a dignified answer, what good fruit will come from it? Let us work together to try and compromise something much more powerful, like the fact that thousands of years ago, a man came teaching the spirit of the very Torah that he followed. A Messiah came teaching principles unheard of to the human thought process. The ability to train one's self to a life of lack of attachment to various worldly customs for one thing, is admirable, but not something that should be held against one's will. I find that dogma in itself amazing. How many men throughout the years have taught and practiced humility, which is the real root of the Torah that is in that ark you are questioning about. Having said that, I bid you ado and hope the best for you and your family. With great love and hope in the Messiah Yahshua, Creeper
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  44

  covenant, Ark of...

  by Priest73 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hummm.

  i'm sitting here watching the history channel (digging for the truth -great show.

  ) anyway a thought just occurred to me.

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  Creeper

  Where are you getting the idea that the ark contained anything other then the 10 commandments?

  1Ki 8:9 There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone which Moses put there at Horeb, when Jehovah made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt.

  Here is an article on this topic a friend of mine wrote...

  In the Pentateuch, we read about the 10 commandments being a separate set of guidelines written by the finger of God himself on two stone tablets, and being placed inside the ark of the covenant. Once again, these 10 commandments, the first of several commands given through Moses, were written on stone tablets and placed INSIDE the ark by themselves. Here are the supporting scriptures for this:
  
  Exo 34:28 And he was there with Jehovah forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
  
  Deu 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even the ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
  
  Deu 10:4 And he wrote on the tables, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which Jehovah spake unto you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly: and Jehovah gave them unto me.
  
  Exo 24:12 And Jehovah said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee the tables of stone, and the law and the commandment, which I have written, that thou mayest teach them.
  
  Exo 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, the two tables of the testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.
  
  Deu 9:11 And it came to pass at the end of forty days and forty nights, that Jehovah gave me the two tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant. As we can see clearly from these aforementioned texts, the Decalogue was clearly written by itself on the stone tablets that were placed by themselves within the ark of the covenant. This is Yahweh's testimony. These texts would normally be quoted from the ISR (Scriptures 98') but some email recipients cannot receive Hebrew letters, so I have gone with the ASV, which at least makes some attempt at keeping the name of Yahweh instead of "THE LORD".
  
  In the following texts I will show how the ten were placed within the ark of the covenant alone.
  
  Exo 25:16 And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee.
  
  Exo 40:20 And he (Moses) took and put the testimony into the ark, and set the staves on the ark, and put the mercy-seat above upon the ark:
  
  1Ki 8:9 There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone which Moses put there at Horeb, when Jehovah made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt. Now it is apparently clear from the text of scipture that these commandments written on stone tablets were placed inside the ark of the covenant and are with God to this very day. We have a text in Revelation that proves this rather simple fact. They are not a curse, they are not a weak beggarly thing, they are not "rudiments of the world", and they are certainly not traditions and doctrines of men!
  
  Rev 11:19 And there was opened the temple of God that is in heaven; and there was seen in his temple the ark of his covenant; and there followed lightnings, and voices, and thunders, and an earthquake, and great hail. Might I suggest that a great deal of Christians are misled? Might I suggest that when Paul speaks of certain things, we are not entirely sure what he is saying? To this day, many of his statements baffle me. But one thing I am certain of, is that no matter how misunderstood his truths are, he is speaking the truth, and it is in agreement with Yahweh and his commands. I would like to now consider a text from Galatians that is not often deeply studied I am sure. I have discovered something that I myself never bothered to look at in depth:
  
  Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continueth not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them. At first glance, and even the second, third and fortieth glance, many Christians assume that this verse is talking about the 10 commandments. But I suggest the possibility that it is not. I suggest that it is talking about the whole "book" of the law which does include the 10 commandments, but is not the 10 be themselves. In other words, the 10 are also part of the book, but are also separate as well.
  
  Let's look at some texts in Deuteronomy and then I will try to elaborate on this in detail:
  
  Deu 28:58 If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, JEHOVAH THY GOD;
  Deu 28:59 then Jehovah will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance.
  
  Deu 29:20 Jehovah will not pardon him, but then the anger of Jehovah and his jealousy will smoke against that man, and all the curse that is written in this book shall lie upon him, and Jehovah will blot out his name from under heaven.
  
  Deu 31:24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,
  Deu 31:25 that Moses commanded the Levites, that bare the ark of the covenant of Jehovah, saying,
  Deu 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it by the side of the ark of the covenant of Jehovah your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.
  Deu 31:27 For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against Jehovah; and how much more after my death? Now I am no theologian, or scholar, or expert in exegesis, but I do think I have something here that is making more sense to me and many others then most of what the Christian world has to offer for an explanation to Paul's words.
  
  IF the curse of the law is found within the book of the law of Moses, and not in the ark of the covenant itself, since the book is placed outside the ark of the covenant, and not within it, could we safely assume that there is a possibility that the 10 commandments are still very much alive to this day and are in fact a requirement for us? If love is the fulfillment of the law, and the 10 commandments summarize love for Yahweh and love for each other, then the 10 are spiritual.
  
  I also see small parallels in the significance of separating Israel into a "10 tribe Kingdom" and a "2 tribe Kingdom" and the way the 10 commandments were summarized by the Messiah into 2 basic concepts. Although this was also done in the Hebrew bible as well. (Love Yahweh and Love neighbor)..
  
  I have found many parallels like this that indicate that Yahweh's physical to spiritual parallel is amazing and wonderful. For instance, one can safely say that the reason Dan might not be included in the list of Israelite tribes in the book of Revelation Chapter 4 might have to do with the parallel of Judas being cast out and replaced with Matthias.
  
  I plan to comment on many more things like this as the word of God is always fascinating for me to study and accept, all of it, every word of Yahweh is inspired and beneficial for us to LIVE BY...
  
  Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
  2Ti 3:16 Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness.
  2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good work.
  
  1Jo 5:2 Hereby we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and do his commandments.
  1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
  
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  44

  covenant, Ark of...

  by Priest73 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hummm.

  i'm sitting here watching the history channel (digging for the truth -great show.

  ) anyway a thought just occurred to me.

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  2. 
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  Creeper

  IPSEC,

  May I ask why you do not believe any of it? OT or NT, as you state? Have you, first of all, read the entire Hebrew bible, including the major and minor prophets, the writings and psalms? If so, could you please comment on Nehemiah for me, chapters 9 and 10 dealing with the covenant.

  Shalom,

  Creeper
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  44

  covenant, Ark of...

  by Priest73 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hummm.

  i'm sitting here watching the history channel (digging for the truth -great show.

  ) anyway a thought just occurred to me.

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  Creeper

  IPSEC,

  Perhaps you could be a little more straight up, whle also having a bit more tact? I have said nothing to insult you, or to insinuate, but it seems that you are trying desperately to attack the Tanakh, instead of taking it at basic humble face value? Many who are sincere in their efforts to prove something wrong, will shut the door on possibilities before completely hearing them out.

  Now if you are seriously interested in a long and defined discussion about this, I would be willing to converse with you in detail. If this is the case, let me know, and I will drop you my phone number and we can start a look into this, beginning with the earliest scrolls available for us to transcribe. I have access to many Jewish scholars via email, who would also be willing to help you, if you are interested.

  Please PM me with a response, if so.

  Shalom,

  Creeper
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  44

  covenant, Ark of...

  by Priest73 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hummm.

  i'm sitting here watching the history channel (digging for the truth -great show.

  ) anyway a thought just occurred to me.

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  Creeper

  I think the problem that we will run into is that I am a Messianic Jew who believes in the Tanakh, and portions of the Greek texts, with the exception of Paul's letters to various heathens who worshiped Mithra (Jesus Christ) and not the true Elohim YHWH through Yahshua the Messiah.

  I think once a person realizes that a great deal of the New Testament is altered to meet the pagan Mithraism that was inherently present during the 1st century in Rome and it's provinces, one will see many of it's influence. There is currently a question about this on another thread:

  http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/onlytruegod

  I find the information from many in the Jewish circles today quite accentuated. It takes great courage to drop the world and it's customs completely, and adopt a Jewish life following Tanakh.

  Shalom,

  Creeper
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  44

  covenant, Ark of...

  by Priest73 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hummm.

  i'm sitting here watching the history channel (digging for the truth -great show.

  ) anyway a thought just occurred to me.

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  Creeper

  Please do not imply that I am insinuating anything. You will get no response from me with that attitude sir. I find your commentary a bit rude and offensive. My intent was to help, but since it is being seen as repugnant, then I will simply say that I forgive your insinuation, it was definitely not my intent to infer you are being linguistically short.

  The answer is that the ark was to house the two stone tablets with the testimony of YHWH written by his finger himself within the second room of the temple veil. This information is clear in Deuteronomy 5.

  I don't find this conversation to be developing loving, caring fruit of the spirit, so if you forgive me, I will now depart from this thread.

  With great love for you and yours, (all of you),

  Creeper
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  44

  covenant, Ark of...

  by Priest73 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hummm.

  i'm sitting here watching the history channel (digging for the truth -great show.

  ) anyway a thought just occurred to me.

  1. 
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  Creeper

  YHWH is not a psychopath. There were wars that established many lessons in the history of the nation of Israel. One cannot simply infer these short cut and dry remarks to sum up thousands of years of anguish and spiritual warfare among the house of Judah and the house of Israel. Murder is what is condemned by the Torah, a specific law for societies of people among each other. War is between different varying societies, and YHWH promised them that foreign nations would not prevail against them. Israel was being attacked and mocked just as Hitler mocked and attacked the Jews. There is really never any change to this, God's people are always being persecuted. It is a fact of not only bible history, but our own current history.

  I think there is a great deal that can be learned though if you had a better understanding of the Hebrew language and the way the English sometimes must paraphrase to meet it's intent. The lack of true meaning is sometimes lost between languages. For instance, "Elohim" is a description of men and angels, as well as YHWH's nature. But there is ben elohim, malak, in the Hebrew, which denote the proper English word which should be applied (Sons of God, Angels, respectively). One is a supernatural being, the other is human.

  The same exact study must go into the definitive pesel as well, otherwise, one loses authentic meaning. There must be a lot of time devoted to really understand the hermetics of the Tanakh. I assure you, in my several years of studying the Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew transliterations, the Hebrew texts are sound in meaning, if one realizes their meaning apart from a false 21st century English conception of words.

  Shalom Aleichem,

  Creeper
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  44

  covenant, Ark of...

  by Priest73 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hummm.

  i'm sitting here watching the history channel (digging for the truth -great show.

  ) anyway a thought just occurred to me.

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  Creeper

  IPSEC, do you have a lexicon or good concordance like Strong's or Smith's bible dictionary? Please look up the Hebrew pesel and it's root definition from H6458. I realize it is about carving things, but the idea presented is specifically in regards to idolatry. The ark was never idolized by the Hebrews. Neither was the serpent of brass, nor the temple itself. But the golden calf (something YHWH did not command to be made) was.

  It boils down to listening to what YHWH commands and not what the people want. YHWH also commands people to kill, even though he also commands them not to in the 10, right? The Torah has countless accounts of David slaughtering an entire army at the command of YHWH.

  Why is this so difficult? I ask this as your companion in the faith.
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  37

  How do you guys know that standing firm won't work

  by dawg in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so, many of you have rightfully challenged my beliefs that standing firm and telling your families exactly what you feel about the wtbts won't work.... i submit that it doesn't work becasue we don't stand together!

  if all of us would stand firm say what we know to be true, do it publically, and not back down then i guarentee you there are many in the congs that want out of this crap and their just too scared to do anything becasue they don't want to lose their families.

  in my family there are many that call me privately and tell me they know the wt is a crock of shit but won't stand up against it!

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  Creeper

  I was thinking that we could all calibrate a particular day, where each of us, decides to enter the Kingdom Hall on a particular calendar day, across the nation and recite the exact same words. A formal statement of hope for those in doubt, that we are not demons, apostates, or evil, but rather a way out, and we are truly united in one truth, and that truth is this:

  1. We are free from the bondage and empowerment of other humans, and their organizations in our personal lives. The real evil is not found in free individuals but rather collective powers that feel they are performing the will of God, when in reality they are imperfect humans that cannot possibly do so to perfection. We do not make this false claim. We believe that every person can have a direct relationship with the Father through Jesus the Messiah, and him alone as mediator. (1 Timothy 2:5).

  Something to that effect. We must orchestrate something of this magnitude to have an effect in the sleepy chambers of the sacred halls of lies. It required a stand up for Jesus in the synagogues to proclaim the truth, and to reconstruct his Father's law in the hearts of believers, and it will take nothing short to rouse the spirits of the mentally dead in the Kingdom Halls either. The simple fact of the matter is this, a message will be broadcast, and it will be heard, and they will all hear it at once. And if there is little turnout, we just go back and do it the next week too.

  A suggestion would be to go in acting as a pizza delivery person, with two fresh hot steaming pies in your hand to fill the hall with the aroma of good heathen meals to attract our prey.