covenant, Ark of...

Priest73

Hummm. I'm sitting here watching the history channel (Digging for the Truth -Great show.) Anyway a thought just occurred to me. Moses climbs the mountain gets 10 commandments etc etc. One of those commandments being "You shall not make for yourself any idol." Now, I'm thinking to myself (yes there is smoke coming from my ears), 1. Couldn't the Ark be considered and idol? It certainly was revered as only a few could look at it. 2. loads of folks we killed when they created a Golden Calf, However... 3. Didn't the good lord instruct Moses to create a bronze snake? aka graven image-ish? There are much smarter people here that I claim to be, so maybe I'm missing something.

Creeper

You are missing something. First of all, the serpent (not necessarily a snake) that Moses was instructed to create and hang on the staff represented sin being eliminated. Not a false god. The golden calf represented a false god, it was an idol. The ark is not an idol. It is a container. If one begins to purport that any object created can be an idol then we are in serious trouble. The main point of the 2nd commandment is to not make images of angels or other gods. It applies to the golden calf, yes, but not the ark or anything else God commanded.

IP_SEC

Hello

The OT is a compilation of several different sources that had different agendas.

The Israelites were polytheistic at one time and used idols in worship (ark, golden calf, serpent thingy)

In Josiah's time the LAW was rediscovered (actually written by a priest(s) striving to make Jah worship the only gig in town) Probably Johsiah's reforms included destroying idols such as the ark and serpent which would have been disgusting idols under the newly discovered (written) laws.

Hope this helps.

matt

Priest73

So I totally get the points you guys are making. However it still feels flaky given the context the top 10 put around images.

IP_SEC

Priest,

I dont think you understand. The top ten (esp the images part) were a later addition to the OT.

This contradiction between the making of idols and the law stating not to make idols is one reason we can see that the OT is not a contiguous work but a fragmented disjointed compilation of several different sources.

That is why it seems flaky to you... because it is flaky.

heathen

An idol is an object of excessive devotion , I'd say the ark of the covenant was a tool and was not worshipped and was kept out of public view most of the time . It was used in the ritual worship of the hebrew God to receive blood sacrifices done by the priests in the temple and it also housed the original 10 commandments . The snake thing was not used in worship in any way .

Priest73

Right Right. The snake was just some hoodoo witchcraft to scare off some snakes. Now it makes total sense. I totally disagree about the snake not for worship. all of those who were commanded to look at the snake by Jah were saved? sounds a bit like worship to me.

IP_SEC

The good book doesnt say anything about not making a idol. It says not to make ANY graven image. Do you still think the ark and serpent do not violate this command?

Graven-Carved
Image-representation

Ark had carved or cast representations of chrerubs (ME minor deity)

Serpent- carved or cast representation of a creature in the earth or the waters beneath it.

vitty

Whilst making the golden calf........................Moses was being given the 10 commandments.................so the people below the mountain didnt even know that they shouldnt be making an idol..............till moses said ...........then it was too late..............confused..............yeah im sure they were too

Creeper

The ark is the earthly version of the heavenly.

Rev 11:19 And there was opened the temple of God that is in heaven; and there was seen in his temple the ark of his covenant; and there followed lightnings, and voices, and thunders, and an earthquake, and great hail.

But this is not to say that the ark which God instructed to build on earth to house the commandments is an image (idol), because it doesn't represent anything other then the very instructions of God himself. It wasn't as if the ark was designed to help worship Molech, or Zoroaster or something. It was designed as part of the whole temple veil and sanctuary.

Heb 8:4 Now if he were on earth, he would not be a priest at all, seeing there are those who offer the gifts according to the law; Heb 8:5 who serve that which is a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, even as Moses is warned of God when he is about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern that was showed thee in the mount.

The high priests were the only ones who ever actually violated the Torah in order to follow it. IPSEC, I am not sure where you are gathering your information about the deuterocanon, but the Tanakh is in tact as far as I know. There are no "fragments" of the Torah. Some of the other writings may be assimilated in later, but the first five, job, the psalms and major prophets are all in line with the Torah and testimony.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! if they speak not according to this word, surely there is no morning for them.

Now Paul and others in the Greek texts, may in fact be committing heresy by preaching against circumcision and claiming that the Torah is annulled in Jesus' blood. The very idea of drinking "my blood and eating my flesh" that Jesus suggests is a violation of Torah itself, and a direct practice of Mithraism.

Shalom Aleichem,

Creeper

covenant, Ark of...

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