Posts by Creeper

5

The Kindest Most Effective Words

by sweet pea in

jw
friends

suggestions please on the kindest and most effective (i.e.

they might stop and seriously think about why) to say to very special close friends that we will no longer be attending the meetings.

i spoke to the first of a few friends today and could tell they were deeply upset - their first reaction was "but there is no where else to go?!

Creeper

Why not read a few assembled bible texts together, to help the message be a kind and loving way. It cannot possibly be construed as bad.

The ones that deal with love and peace and joy being the best ones of course. My favorite was always in 1 Corinthians 13, along with the words of Jesus in Matthew 5-7.

Let them know that you will be walking in the spirit, and that is what counts most:

Gal 5:22

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

Gal 5:23

meekness, self-control; against such there is no law.

Gal 5:24

And they that are of Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with the passions and the lusts thereof.

Gal 5:25

If we live by the Spirit, by the Spirit let us also walk.

44

covenant, Ark of...

by Priest73 in

jw
friends

hummm.

i'm sitting here watching the history channel (digging for the truth -great show.

) anyway a thought just occurred to me.

Creeper

The other problem is this:

Exo 20:2 I595 am the LORD3068 thy God,430 which834 have brought thee out3318 of the land4480, 776 of Egypt,4714 out of the house4480, 1004 of bondage.5650
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have1961 no3808 other312 gods430 before5921, 6440 me.
Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not3808 make6213 unto thee any graven image,6459 or any3605 likeness8544 of any thing that834 is in heaven8064 above,4480, 4605 or that834 is in the earth776 beneath,4480, 8478 or that834 is in the water4325 under4480, 8478 the earth:776
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not3808 bow down thyself7812 to them, nor3808 serve5647 them: for3588 I595 the LORD3068 thy God430 am a jealous7067 God,410 visiting6485 the iniquity5771 of the fathers1 upon5921 the children1121 unto5921 the third8029 and fourth7256 generation of them that hate8130 me;
Exo 20:6 And showing6213 mercy2617 unto thousands505 of them that love157 me, and keep8104 my commandments.4687

If we look closely, the idea of the 2nd commandment is specifically dealing with the bowing down or worshiping (serving) the idol. The children of Israel had just been pulled from the bondage to sin in Egypt, and were very much familiar with idolatry. They had to be taught not to submit to idols again. Later, they would undergo another captivity by Babylon, and have the same principles as part of the their worship again. By the time of the Pharisees, there are many who ascribe to the Talmud and other false teachings, oral commands of the elders, etc, which are not part of the everlasting Torah.

Chrisitianity of course (including JW's) teaches that the Tanakh is now void or "done away" or no longer a covenant that we are to ascribe to. The Messiah of course never said any such thing.

44

covenant, Ark of...

by Priest73 in

jw
friends

hummm.

i'm sitting here watching the history channel (digging for the truth -great show.

) anyway a thought just occurred to me.

Creeper

Ok, the problem here is this: First, IPSEC, you are dead wrong about the definition of "graven image" which is the English translation of the Hebrew pesel.

H6459

????

pesel

peh'-sel

From H6458; an idol: - carved (graven) image.

44

covenant, Ark of...

by Priest73 in

jw
friends

hummm.

i'm sitting here watching the history channel (digging for the truth -great show.

) anyway a thought just occurred to me.

Creeper

The ark is the earthly version of the heavenly.

Rev 11:19 And there was opened the temple of God that is in heaven; and there was seen in his temple the ark of his covenant; and there followed lightnings, and voices, and thunders, and an earthquake, and great hail.

But this is not to say that the ark which God instructed to build on earth to house the commandments is an image (idol), because it doesn't represent anything other then the very instructions of God himself. It wasn't as if the ark was designed to help worship Molech, or Zoroaster or something. It was designed as part of the whole temple veil and sanctuary.

Heb 8:4 Now if he were on earth, he would not be a priest at all, seeing there are those who offer the gifts according to the law; Heb 8:5 who serve that which is a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, even as Moses is warned of God when he is about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern that was showed thee in the mount.

The high priests were the only ones who ever actually violated the Torah in order to follow it. IPSEC, I am not sure where you are gathering your information about the deuterocanon, but the Tanakh is in tact as far as I know. There are no "fragments" of the Torah. Some of the other writings may be assimilated in later, but the first five, job, the psalms and major prophets are all in line with the Torah and testimony.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! if they speak not according to this word, surely there is no morning for them.

Now Paul and others in the Greek texts, may in fact be committing heresy by preaching against circumcision and claiming that the Torah is annulled in Jesus' blood. The very idea of drinking "my blood and eating my flesh" that Jesus suggests is a violation of Torah itself, and a direct practice of Mithraism.

Shalom Aleichem,

Creeper

18

Introduction

by Creeper in

jw
friends

i thought it would be polite if i just introduced myself.

i am a former jehovah's witness that left studying a few years back for the purpose of solace and grace in my life, freedom from the hypocrisy of men, and the teachings which the bible does not correspond with.

i have since adopted a more simple way of living, and no longer have to worry about ring around the collar, or that book study that i never read ahead for.

Creeper

Thanks everyone.

I wonder if any here have done as I am doing, and going to a different aspect of theology from the bible? The gospel taught by Paul for instance, which in accord with Jesus, shows the kingdom to be a literal real future government here on Earth, with an actual visible physical return of the Messiah, at a date no man knows. The biggest trouble I had with the WT Elders was trying to convince them that they had succumbed to a false teaching about the Messiah's second advent. The Messiah himself says that "no man knows the hour" of it (Matthew 24:36) and that "It is not for you to know the times and seasons the Father has prepared" (Acts 1:6-11).

In Revelation 1:7 the Messiah says through John, "Every eye will see him" in regards to his second advent. With so many texts talking about a literal future arrival in the flesh, one cannot possibly listen to a group that is now simply misleading because of a prophecy failing. They need to confess their sin of iniquity with the real Jesus, repent, and move on by breaking the organization to pieces. Otherwise, the real Mesisah will do so, as God's regent, at his return.

These are just my free thoroughfairs and not to be considered a hindering declaration against the veracity of anyone else's understanding.

Creeper Buds

15

Jehovah is Grandfather, Jesus is Father ??

by NotaNess in

jw
friends

not sure i'm in the right section of the forum, but i thought i'd go where a ton of posters hang out.. can some one clerify for me and give me some experience notes about this subject that i came across on the net.. have jw's studied on jehovah being the grandfather and jesus being the father?

if so, where does this come from.

thanks!.

Creeper

The real truth on this matter is this: There is only One Father, the true God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. Jesus himself says so:

Mat 23:9And call no man your father on the earth: for one is your Father, even he who is in heaven.

The confusion surrounding Isaiah 9:6 is cleared up knowing that Jesus is a vice regent for the Father, one in the same really, since he said "I and the Father are one". The Greek texts are full of spurious additions though anyway, and it is really hard to tell what is what anymore with the bible. It is easier to either become a complete Jew, and begin a full blown Jewish calendar practice of keeping the Torah, or to abandon the law all together and simply become a partying heathen. It comes down a a choice, and that choice is black and white. Sabbaths, holy feasts, beards, tassles, and blue and white clothes, or you can party on the patio.

14

Genetic evidence disproves WT DINOSAURES THEORY

by badboy in

jw
friends

analysis of collagen protein show chicken share 5 of the proteins.. i wonder what explanion the jws will come up with.. i know that there is anoher post about his,but i couldn't.

Creeper

Marge, I'm confused. Is this a happy ending or a sad ending?

alt

44

covenant, Ark of...

by Priest73 in

jw
friends

hummm.

i'm sitting here watching the history channel (digging for the truth -great show.

) anyway a thought just occurred to me.

Creeper

You are missing something. First of all, the serpent (not necessarily a snake) that Moses was instructed to create and hang on the staff represented sin being eliminated. Not a false god. The golden calf represented a false god, it was an idol. The ark is not an idol. It is a container. If one begins to purport that any object created can be an idol then we are in serious trouble. The main point of the 2nd commandment is to not make images of angels or other gods. It applies to the golden calf, yes, but not the ark or anything else God commanded.

18

Introduction

by Creeper in

jw
friends

i thought it would be polite if i just introduced myself.

i am a former jehovah's witness that left studying a few years back for the purpose of solace and grace in my life, freedom from the hypocrisy of men, and the teachings which the bible does not correspond with.

i have since adopted a more simple way of living, and no longer have to worry about ring around the collar, or that book study that i never read ahead for.

Creeper

Greetings Everyone, I thought it would be polite if I just introduced myself. I am a former Jehovah's Witness that left studying a few years back for the purpose of solace and grace in my life, freedom from the hypocrisy of men, and the teachings which the bible does not correspond with. I have since adopted a more simple way of living, and no longer have to worry about ring around the collar, or that book study that I never read ahead for. Creeper

33

WAS THIS TRUE IN YOUR CONGREGATION ?

by juni in

jw
friends

do you feel there was a "gap" between those who had more materially and those families or individuals who had less?.

example: did those who had "less" materially not get invited to private homes for get togethers as frequently or not at all?.

thanks for your input.. juni .

Creeper

This is an absolutely fantastic topic, and now that I look back and think about it, there was definitely a degree of separation like this. For some reason, I never realized it, seeing as how I didn't donate, didn't participate, didn't help in any way really, and I thought that was why I never got any extra invites or anything. To be perfectly honest, I was kind of a mooch at the KH. I was the type that needed two fresh brand new copies of the Watchtower, one for underlining and highlighting with different colored Accent markers, and another in mint condition for archiving. It was tough to get extra copies of the "All scripture" book, or the Kingdom interlinear translation, (you know, that book that makes you look smarter). All in all, I never realized that none of that would have mattered at all if I actually had money. What I did see, however, was the competition between men in suits. For some reason, the visiting speakers would always seem to have top of the line apparel.