Yeah, that's my take as well.
I do genuinely believe my points, as I am sure you do, but it's also an effective strategy for keeping the cobblies at bay.
RD
RollerDave
JoinedPosts by RollerDave
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54
Evolution is a religious teaching
by lrkr ini kid you not.
page 16 of 1/1/08 wt.
"although evolution is usually presented in scientific language, it is really a religious doctrine.".
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54
Evolution is a religious teaching
by lrkr ini kid you not.
page 16 of 1/1/08 wt.
"although evolution is usually presented in scientific language, it is really a religious doctrine.".
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RollerDave
OK, now you're just making me smile, which I appreciate because my daughter just broke up with her boyfriend right here in the living-room while I have been carrying on this debate.
But, aside from that;
Studies with germs can be carried out in the here and now with reproducible results, and yes I have seen bacteria in a microscope.
Apples to oranges, but I admire your tenacity.
As to micro-evolution, it can be observed, reproduced, utilized. They breed long noodle-like dogs the chase rats into holes, and other bigger dogs for the rats who try to get into your jewelry while you sleep, but nobody has managed to cross species lines in spite of a world of effort.
Dogs simply cannot be bred into, or with horses, cats, bears, or people.
Although there is a determined cadre of sicko's on the 'net trying to breed with dogs, probably even as we type.
I'll just shudder to clear THAT image and go on...
If all of the species came from the same goo, and evolved down the line, kingdoms, phylum, family all that....
Why are the 'kinds' only fertile within their kind?
Don't they share that much-vaunted 90% or more DNA?
What is it that limits them and who set that limit?
Why is it that they 'reproduce according to their kind' when having a narrower gene pool of available mates could not possibly be viewed as a superior survival trait?
For me, the holes just abound the more I look at it.
But that's just my faith, I'll not try to convert you.
Had my fill of converting people, just defending my beliefs here.
RD
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54
Evolution is a religious teaching
by lrkr ini kid you not.
page 16 of 1/1/08 wt.
"although evolution is usually presented in scientific language, it is really a religious doctrine.".
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RollerDave
If evolution=religion then germ theory does too, huh?
The problem with that is that germ theory can be put under a microscope, observed to be happening in the here and now.
The same cannot be said about evolution, it is entirely interpretive.
Subjective, even.
But it was a nice exercise.
RD
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54
Evolution is a religious teaching
by lrkr ini kid you not.
page 16 of 1/1/08 wt.
"although evolution is usually presented in scientific language, it is really a religious doctrine.".
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RollerDave
Fair enough, Lore, point taken.
Accusation retracted.
RD
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54
Evolution is a religious teaching
by lrkr ini kid you not.
page 16 of 1/1/08 wt.
"although evolution is usually presented in scientific language, it is really a religious doctrine.".
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RollerDave
I would agree with them, much to my regret, that the way evolution is taught, glossing over any inconsistencies while making bold assertions as to it's truth is very much like the way religion is taught.
I also have observed that even though you may find a fossil, you have no direct knowledge of how it lived, or that it even ever had any offspring that survived.
Calling it a belief system is totally consistent, and that it could just as easily be the result of bias on the part of the scientists involved is not too much of a stretch.
Of course, I wasn't there, but then neither were you.
So, I find myself in the unenviable position of agreeing with the WTS this once, but hey....
Even a broken clock can be right twice a day.
Not bad for a fool, eh 5go?
RD
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54
Evolution is a religious teaching
by lrkr ini kid you not.
page 16 of 1/1/08 wt.
"although evolution is usually presented in scientific language, it is really a religious doctrine.".
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RollerDave
on the contrary! I see them as one and the same.
The holes in evolutionary theory are not even close to being filled, the more one learns the bigger they get. The so-called simplest forms are far more complex than Darwin had previously imagined, and in every field there are contrary indications, but you sure don't hear much about them.
Polonium halos, the law of causation, entropy, even simple mathematical probability, it just doesn't add up for me.
Again, I state: If it works for you, more power to you, but don't try to claim it is not faith-based or proven. Not even close.
I am just sick and tired of holding my tongue while a bunch of cocksure and arrogant evolutionists go on about how they have the only truth, the only possibility of truth when it is just not so.
While I state my belief as one possibility, you cannot seem to muster that much objectivity and resort to unsupported assertion, illogic, and ad hominem attacks.
Cloud the issue, whatever.
Looks like you defend your belief system with ardor, and I don't blame you.
I have previously pointed out the faith you need to believe something which simply cannot be proven.
Ardor and faith.
Religion.
OK 5go, have at me again.
I have to admit, 5go, I too regard you as the fool in some things, but with the deepest respect, I assure you.
Peace out,
RD
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54
Evolution is a religious teaching
by lrkr ini kid you not.
page 16 of 1/1/08 wt.
"although evolution is usually presented in scientific language, it is really a religious doctrine.".
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RollerDave
Oh, and speaking of ignoring inconvenient contradictory findings...
- http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/netdict?Religion
- Main Entry:
- re·li·gion
- Pronunciation:
- \ri- ' li-j?n\
- Function:
- noun
- Etymology:
- Middle English religioun, from Anglo-French religiun, Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back — more at rely
- Date:
- 13th century
1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance 2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices 3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness 4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith (boldface, mine) Thank you. RD -
54
Evolution is a religious teaching
by lrkr ini kid you not.
page 16 of 1/1/08 wt.
"although evolution is usually presented in scientific language, it is really a religious doctrine.".
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RollerDave
The fossils date the rock layers, and the rock layers date the fossils, and round and round we go!
Yeah, this IS a lively one.
First off, I'm sorry to say that the evidence far from compels me. It's minimal at best.
Micro-evolution, AKA variations within a 'kind' is everywhere, but there is yet to be ANY proof that one 'kind' changes into another, or ever has.
Shared DNA? Inconclusive, signs of the maker. Uses proven techniques.
Neanderthal skulls? Try fitting the jaw differently and the whole outlook changes. Ask yourself why THAT has been suppressed.
The circular reasoning goes deeper than the rocks and fossils that date each other but never get off.
Crazy improbabilities that brought us here, that the eye could evolve, or the subjective first-person perspective, or any of it, yet it MUST have! Why? Because we ARE here!
And what of the contradictory evidence that is simply not considered?
Whole forests of petrified trees poking up through supposed eons of sedimentary layers?
Animal fossils that likewise cross boundaries of rock that are supposed to represent millions of years?
Did they lay out exposed until covered?
If something doesn't fit the story line it's suppressed or discounted.
Bah!
Your belief is as full of holes as mine, neither of us will really know until it's too late to tell anyone else.
So why do we believe?
I need God to be, you need him to not.
Origins, schmorigins, we each try to make sense of the world, our place in it, and how we got here, I just believe one thing, you believe another, but fool yourself not, there is as much faith and religion in denying God as in following Him.
I admit there's lots I can't explain, but it's you who are fooling yourselves that you are so right, so rational, so logical...
All the while espousing science that descended from the medieval belief that leaves falling in water became fishes, which became frogs.
Like I said, have at it, more power to you!
Even insist that it is a purely secular exercise with no religiosity whatsoever.
But I still think you are fooling yourself.
RD
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54
Evolution is a religious teaching
by lrkr ini kid you not.
page 16 of 1/1/08 wt.
"although evolution is usually presented in scientific language, it is really a religious doctrine.".
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RollerDave
I usually disagree with EVERYTHING the WTS says, and am certainly not siding with or defending them; but...
Evolution IS a religious teaching.
It attempts to explain our origins, and since none of us were there for any of the events described, it requires a certain amount of faith to believe.
Faith in the scientists who seek out the evidence, faith in their interpretations of what they found, faith in their honesty and abilities...
Was it extremely improbable that life would spontaneously begin? That it would develop the ability to reproduce and evolve all on its own with no pesky or annoying God to impose His moral codes on you?
It is a simply mind boggling improbability, yet this is EXACTLY what you believe, and that my friend, takes FAITH.
So have at it, believe it if you want, I won't try to dissuade you, but don't fool yourselves that you have some kind of monopoly on reason and have stripped yourself of such nonsense as faith.
Unless you can go back in time and see the events, unless you can look over the shoulder of every scientist so you don't need to take his word for it, unless you can also see through solid rock to the stuff that he DIDN'T find or use your time machine to see the stuff that perished before his great grandfather's birth...
You can't 'know' without a measure of faith.
That, my friends, makes it a religious teaching. Just another of the doctrines in the religion of secular humanism.
Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's not my belief.
RD
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20
Crisis of Conscience as an e-book?
by Mickey mouse inthis is a suggestion really, i don't know if it's in the right sub-forum.
i have read the chapters available online via wikipedia but the risk involved in ordering the book to read the rest is just too great.
does anyone who knows ray franz feel that they could approach him about getting the book made available to purchase online as an e-book?
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RollerDave
I know I have Captives of a Concept by Don Cameron as an e-book.
I paid and downloaded it from a legit site.
I could very easily put it up on file-sharing sites, but wouldn't consider it.
I mean, it's a peasley five buck, I'll be damned if I'm gonna cheat the guy out of his five bucks after all that book has meant to me and all he's put into it.
Maybe pricing is a factor?
Nah, even then there are those who would pay the five, and put it up just to increase the number of files they can share.
Paper copies are easier to curl up in an overstuffed chair with anyways.
RD
