StephaneLaliberte

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Posts by StephaneLaliberte

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  10

  Could the WT have paid of large loans when it sold NY properties?

  by StephaneLaliberte in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  it seems that everyone is taking for granted that the sociaty has made 1 billion in profit.

  could anyone tell me why it would not be a posibility that the society had a large number of mortgages attached to these properties?

  wouldn't that explain the latest monney grab from the congregations?.

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  StephaneLaliberte

  It seems that everyone is taking for granted that the sociaty has made 1 billion in profit. Could anyone tell me why it would not be a posibility that the society had a large number of mortgages attached to these properties? Wouldn't that explain the latest monney grab from the congregations?
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  11

  I am sick and tired, I am proud, I am leaving

  by never a jw in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for 2 years, soon after my daughter's baptism, i have been exchanging many emails with an elder of her congregation.

  good man, but he is a jw and he just drove me to the brink of madness recently; that was the drop the spill the water.

  it's a cult.

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  StephaneLaliberte

  never a jw, it took me many years to leave the JW and the thing that really did it is focusing on Love. When I came to realize that they do not truely demonstrate the basic of it all, that is when I found the courage to leave. Also, the WT prevented me from looking at the what mattered the most by giving undue important to other things:

  • We are building halls, assembly halls and bethels. Did Jesus or even his deciples built anything?
  • We are the one that print the most and translate the most: Did Jesus write anything? How many books were written by his deciples over how many years... compare with JW today. Does the numbers make the information accurate and truthful? Old lights (erroneous teachings based on a flawed understanding of the scriptures) have been printed and distributed to millions.
  • We are united in one teaching: From one end of the world to another. How is this realy a good thing? Since many teachings have been changed over the years, isn't this a demonstration of oppresing the thoughts of individuals?
  • Guided by a few man, like it was in the bible. They do not claim to be inspired and much less performing miracles similar to Moses, how can they compare themselves to these man?
  • We are preaching worldwide! So are the muslim and the catholics.
  • We keep the congregation's pure by disfellowshipping. And how is this in line with preventing everyone, including family, from talking to a sinner? Bear in mind, we are under the christian law, guided by love, not the mosaic law.
  • Look at the fruits produced by the WT, you can't deny the evidence. Keeping the "fruit of the spirit" in mind, how can you corolate that to building kingdom halls, printing, accurate meeting attendance, preparing the meetings, etc. JW by large will judge individuals by there measured performane. How is this in line with Jesus' teachings? Where is the love?
  • Do not find insignificant issues with topics that are not important. If these are not important, then, why giving so much importance to the fact I am bringing them up? Who demonstrates the lack of humility: The one who brings forth a fact or the one that calls him an anti-christ for doing so?

  I know you gave up on them, but please don't. Hold strong to the truth. I just hope this approach will possibly help you.
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  19

  Awful experience: I threw my WT library out!

  by StephaneLaliberte in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yes, i threw my wt library out: my recycle bin was full.

  even if i had imagined this experience to be similar to a prisoner getting rid of his chains, this was not so.. instead, it brought up all the memories i had shared with my family where we were excited about the release of the revelation book; the clear feeling of ultimate knowledge when we showed the live forever book, the questions i had practiced with my family in the organized book, my cousins who got baptized as well.

  somehow, all i could think of was only the good memories i had shared with my family and almost cried about it.. and then, i started to think of the division, the hatred and the pain that became prevalent in my family as some were disfellowshipped and thus, ostracized.

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  StephaneLaliberte

  Rebel8, you're right! They constently brag about themselves and call it "upbuilding/faith strenghtening talks". And if someone brings forth questionable teachings or actions, they call it being negative, nit picking, selfish individual trying to sabotage your faith and the joy you could not find anywhere else.

  So, when you're told that you are happy, you start believing it.
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  19

  Awful experience: I threw my WT library out!

  by StephaneLaliberte in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yes, i threw my wt library out: my recycle bin was full.

  even if i had imagined this experience to be similar to a prisoner getting rid of his chains, this was not so.. instead, it brought up all the memories i had shared with my family where we were excited about the release of the revelation book; the clear feeling of ultimate knowledge when we showed the live forever book, the questions i had practiced with my family in the organized book, my cousins who got baptized as well.

  somehow, all i could think of was only the good memories i had shared with my family and almost cried about it.. and then, i started to think of the division, the hatred and the pain that became prevalent in my family as some were disfellowshipped and thus, ostracized.

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  StephaneLaliberte

  Hey Captain Obvious,

  You’re right, I have been here for a long time. I got on this board in 2007 and was a visitor as far back as 2005/2006.

  At first, I focused on the prophetic side of things and when I realized how wrong the WT was, I reasoned that it would not be wise to overly concern myself with details. I based this on the concepts of “arguing about genealogies”. At that time, I still believed that the Witnesses were the closest to the truth and had love as its central motivation.

  Then, I had kids who grew up enough for them to understand what was being said at the hall. I realized then that I could not keep up the charade, I could not teach my kids that the JW had the exclusivity to the ultimate, unchangeable truth. It just didn’t make sense.

  It is then that I focused my attention on the core teaching of Jesus: LOVE. And the following really got to me:

  • How can you reconcile the disfellowshipping procedures with the prodigal son story?
  • Threatening (with disfellowshipping) individuals with different views on small teachings that are not central to the Christian faith.
  • Measuring the activities for of all members, congregations, etc, leading them to believe that such compiled numbers are equivalent to “spiritual fruits”.
  • The WT never apologizing for anything.
  • Not effectively partaking in any charitable work.
  • etc…

  Lately, I have come to the conclusion that these shortcomings of the JW were in fact worst then that of the sinners that Jesus was known to be eating with. Compare the number of occasions where Jesus SCREAMED at a fornicator and how many time he SCREAMED at the Pharisees or the Scribes. Yet, in many ways, the JW do act like these religious leaders. For instance, ask what is worst to a JW: Fornicating or shunning a fornicator? Their answer will be similar to that of a Pharisee.

  Having understood this, I have stoped attenting the hall and recently became inactive. And with actions like throwing out that Library, I am getting closer to being free.

  It just felt weird that dispite knowing all this that I have written above, that I still felt pain and sorrow when I through these books out.
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  19

  Awful experience: I threw my WT library out!

  by StephaneLaliberte in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yes, i threw my wt library out: my recycle bin was full.

  even if i had imagined this experience to be similar to a prisoner getting rid of his chains, this was not so.. instead, it brought up all the memories i had shared with my family where we were excited about the release of the revelation book; the clear feeling of ultimate knowledge when we showed the live forever book, the questions i had practiced with my family in the organized book, my cousins who got baptized as well.

  somehow, all i could think of was only the good memories i had shared with my family and almost cried about it.. and then, i started to think of the division, the hatred and the pain that became prevalent in my family as some were disfellowshipped and thus, ostracized.

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  StephaneLaliberte

  Yes, I threw my WT library out: My recycle bin was full. Even if I had imagined this experience to be similar to a prisoner getting rid of his chains, this was not so.

  Instead, it brought up all the memories I had shared with my family where we were excited about the release of the revelation book; the clear feeling of ultimate knowledge when we showed the Live Forever book, the questions I had practiced with my family in the organized book, my cousins who got baptized as well. Somehow, all I could think of was ONLY the good memories I had shared with my family and almost cried about it.

  And then, I started to think of the division, the hatred and the pain that became prevalent in my family as some were disfellowshipped and thus, ostracized. Of the things my Dad and Mom thought me with absolute certainty, radicalising the worldly people with a superior attitude. My family was supposed to be protected from the world when in fact, it was victim of the WT that did this through abusive messages disguised as love.

  And then, I started to be very mad, even cursing at the man at the top of that organization that are fully aware of what they are doing. Disfellowshipping, “house to house” is not “door to door”, computing the “field hours”, holding as “absolute”, teachings founded on uncertain biblical references, condemning, on a continuous basis, anyone who reason differently, etc. How can they not be afraid of the God they claim to serve? They have elevated themselves to a position above their brothers and sisters, can’t they see this is out of line with Jesus’ teachings?

  I now realize that I actually hate what they represent and what they are doing to so many people that I love.

  In the end, this grieving process brought me to a stronger resolution to fight against the actions of this group. Yes, there were good times and good memories, still, when all considered, it feels more like that battered wife syndrome. She keeps remembering the good things and forget that her husband is about to kill her. How else can I consider a group that, in short says: “If you don’t believe the full, integral, inventory of our teachings, God will kill you. In fact, if we had our own country, we would, for we are God’s mouth piece as Moses was!”
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  36

  BOE re:Adjusted Process to Accelerate Kingdom Hall Construction

  by TTATTelder in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  may 12, 2014. to all bodies of elders in the united states branch territory.

  re: adjusted process to accelerate kingdom hall construction.

  dear brothers:.

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  StephaneLaliberte

  Its interesting that they specify that the projects under 5,000 dollars are to be handled by the congregation. Most maintenance cost don't exceed this individually... I can envision something of the like happening:

  In the same year: Sound system needs fixing: 1,000$. Furnace requires repairs: 4,500$. -- they already busted their 5,000 $ funds and anything else in that year, they will need to ask the branch.

  Interesting... I guess it won't be as glamerous for many Elders to hold to their positions.
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  7

  "C.T. Russell was recently demoted to nothing more than a seeker of truth"

  by thedepressedsoul in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i saw this in one of the posts from a member.. .

  has something changed?

  not sure i remeber hearing that c.t.

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  StephaneLaliberte

  According to new understanding (July 15 2013), the Faithful and descreet slave has been so since 1919. Therefore, the first Apostles, the faithfull witnesses throughout history right up to Charles Russel were not part of the F&D Slave. Since Charles Russel wasn't an Apostle either, then, he was "demoted" to being a simple anointed brother who seeked the truth.
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  36

  The Ray Franz Movie

  by RayPublisher in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  been wanting to talk about this for a while... three years ago on this forum my friend cedars brought this up.

  let's do it!.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sykaxxpyos.

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  StephaneLaliberte

  Ray Franz's story could be a full blown holywood movie if you ask me. Everything is there, Romance, Love, aint, treason, power, monney, travel, religion. With a great script, this could be awesome!
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  23

  Scriptural reason why only the anointed can partake?

  by StephaneLaliberte in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  its weird, but im trying to find scriptures used by the wtbs to back the following assumption:.

  *** w81 4/1 p. 12 celebrating the death of the greatest man ever on earth ***.

  it is because the founder of the celebration set it up for observance by those with whom he made a covenant for the heavenly kingdom.. .

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  StephaneLaliberte

  Blondie: Thanks for the quotes. I sincerely appreciate your time and effort. Still, I don’t see, even by JW theological standards, how the bible says that only anointed should partake.

  *** it-1 p. 498 Congregation ***

  Whereas the Law covenant mediated by Moses and under which the congregation of Israel was regulated was fulfilled by Christ and was taken out of the way by Jehovah God (Mt 5:17; 2Co 3:14; Col 2:13, 14), members of the Christian congregation of God partake of the benefits of the new covenant mediated by the Greater Moses, Jesus Christ. (Mt 26:28; Heb 12:22-24; Ac 3:19-23) Also, while the priests and kings of Israel were anointed with oil (Ex 30:22-30; 2Ki 9:6), those chosen by God to be members of the Christian congregation are anointed with holy spirit (2Co 1:21, 22; 1Jo 2:20) and are adopted by Jehovah God as his sons.—Eph 1:5.

  Everyone (great crowd and the anointed) benefit from the new covenant.

  (it-2 p. 270 Lord’s Evening Meal)

  In thus partaking, these indicate that they are in the new covenant and are receiving the benefits of it, that is, God’s forgiveness of sins through Christ’s blood.

  Was the memorial about the sacrificial death of Jesus or the new covenant? Jesus said: this represents my flesh and blood. He said: Keep doing this in remembrance of me. Not: Keep celebrating the new covenant.

  They properly esteem the value of “the blood of the covenant” by which they are sanctified. (Heb 10:29)

  The blood of Christ washes away the since of EVERYONE.

  The Scriptures call them “ministers of a new covenant,” serving its ends. (2Co 3:5, 6)

  Irrelevant: Scriptures says that of the anointed, not the partakers.

  And they fittingly partake of the emblematic loaf because they can say: “By the said ‘will’ we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.” (Heb 10:10)

  Everyone can say that: The great crowd washes their garments in the blood of Christ.

  They share in Christ’s sufferings and in a death like his, a death of integrity.

  Isn’t it basically the hope for Christians that dies faithfully?

  They hope to share in “the likeness of his resurrection,” a resurrection to immortal life in a spiritual body.—Ro 6:3-5.

  And how is this a requirement to partake?

  *** w12 3/1 p. 17 How Should We Remember Jesus’ Death? ***

  Through the new covenant, Jehovah makes blessings available to many by means of a few. Those in the covenant are few, a mere 144,000. Through them, millions from all nations will be blessed with everlasting life in an earthly paradise. Some who are in the new covenant serve Jehovah on earth today. They alone properly partake of the bread and the wine because the cup “means the new covenant.”—Read Luke 12:32; Revelation 14:1, 3.

  Mathew and mark said: This means my “blood of the covenant” Wine is red like blood. Jesus also said: “Most truly I say to you, Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves.”. Safer route seems to suggest that you need to partake to demonstrate that you recognize that his sacrifice washes your sin.

  *** w10 3/15 p. 27 One Flock, One Shepherd ***Who Should Partake?

  15 Those in the new covenant “have boldness for the way of entry into the holy place.” (Read Hebrews 10:15-20.) These are the ones who are “to receive a kingdom that cannot be shaken.” (Heb. 12:28) So, then, only those who will be kings and priests in heaven with Jesus Christ should drink from the “cup” that represents the new covenant. These participants in the new covenant are the ones promised in marriage to the Lamb. (2 Cor. 11:2; Rev. 21:2, 9) All others who attend the annual Memorial are respectful observers, who do not partake of the emblems.

  Jesus didn’t say: By partaking, you demonstrate that you will be sitting to the right of me.

  *** w09 1/15 p. 28 par. 15 Jehovah’s Servant—“Pierced for Our Transgression” ***

  The things in the heavens” that are reconciled to Jehovah by means of Christ’s shed blood are the anointed Christians, called to reign with Christ in the heavens. Christians who are “partakers of the heavenly calling” are declared “righteous for life.” (Heb. 3:1; Rom. 5:1, 18) Jehovah then begets them as spiritual sons. The holy spirit bears witness to them that they are “joint heirs with Christ,” called to become kings and priests in his heavenly Kingdom. (Rom. 8:15-17; Rev. 5:9, 10) They become part of spiritual Israel, “the Israel of God,” and they are taken into the “new covenant.” (Jer. 31:31-34; Gal. 6:16) As members of the new covenant, they are entitled to partake of the Memorial emblems, including the cup of red wine, of which Jesus stated: “This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood, which is to be poured out in your behalf.”—Luke 22:20.

  The blood was to be poured out in behalf of all who believed in him - not just the anointed. Matthew and Mark said: This means my “blood of the covenant”. Jesus’ Blood.

  Also, did Jesus say: By drinking this cup, you demonstrate you are part of the new covenant? Take someone who believes to be saves (to an earthly paradise) through the new covenant. Why would he not the cup in appreciation for what the covenant brings? Either you go through the ceremony or you don't. There was no respectful christians observers in that room.

  *** bh p. 207 par. 4 The Lord’s Evening Meal—An Observance That Honors God ***

  Who should partake of these Memorial emblems? Logically, only those in the new covenant—that is, those who have the hope of going to heaven—should partake of the bread and the wine. God’s holy spirit convinces such ones that they have been selected to be heavenly kings. (Romans 8:16) They are also in the Kingdom covenant with Jesus.—Luke 22:29.

  Logically?? How is saying “Logically” an explanation by itself?
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  59

  what is the best line to say to a JW handing you an invite to the memorial

  by nonjwspouse in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have some ideas, but want more to choose from..

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  StephaneLaliberte

  I'm sorry, but I cannot possibly imagine myself rejecting Jesus' sacrifice by not partaking like you all do. The lord's meal is about Jesus' Sacrifice and by partaking, one expresses his gratitude for his sacrifice.

  You, on the other hand, call it Memorial (a word not even found in the bible), and tell almost everyone that they can't take part of it as it is really about the new covenant of which they are not part of.

  Can you imagine hosting a supper, telling most of your guests: You can watch me and my close friends eat while you stay there in silence. And don't you dare reaching over to eat anything!