Posts by StephaneLaliberte

59

JW Witnessing Trolleys. To approach or ignore what is your preference and why?

by KateWild in

i saw two brothers this morning next to the main train station in liverpool city centre this morning.

they were not actively approaching anyone.

what i found strange was that they were from a cong that has different territory, so i don't know why they were there.. anyway i knew them both, and they know i was df'd, i was in my car and couldn't park up for a chat, but i did beep and wave to them as i drove passed and they waved back.

StephaneLaliberte

If I was in another city and saw them, I think I'd ask a few questions that don't appear too "JW savy". Like, asking a question on 1914, 1919 or 607 would immediately trigger their "apostate alarm". I'd like to ask some questions like:

When Jesus was there, why didn't he write any books? Did he asks people to build him churches?

I heard that you guys shun people, a lot of people. Is this true? Even family and very close friends? Why? Did Jesus ever shun people? How could he be tempted by Satan if he did not shun him? Why did he go in the desert in the first place knowing he could be tempted? What was the point of that? Wasn't that willfully putting his beliefs to the test?

If someone you know tells you that he's planing to kill someone tomorrow. Would you try to stop him? Would you inform the police? Why? How would you feel if you did nothing? Then why would God be able to stand by idle and watch so many bad things happen? I went to visit some concentration camps in Germany, I was amazed by how long it took the Germans to get to that final solution. They changed laws, organized trains, ghettos, build railroad, camps, etc. It took many years and God, who sees everything, knew exactly what was going to happen. Why? What did that change in the greater scheme of things? What is his excuse for doing nothing?

I'd try to get more random questions that are general, but easily puts questions in their minds.

47

Why are some that post here JW apologists?

by ctrwtf in

jw
friends

my rant tonight is against the quasi religious apologists that post on this board.

those who at once rail against the jw's then later talk about how "orderly" and "neat" the witnesses are at their conventions.

those who site the benefits of bloodless surgery to some who have the luxury and time to actually make an educated choice, while ignoring the tens of thousands who've died because they happen to be in an accident or succumb to a disease for which there is no other treatment.. i understand the power of cognitive dissonance.

StephaneLaliberte

I have been on this forum for almost 10 years and out of the cult for only 3. For 7 years, I

knew of the issues with the pedophiles,
Knew the dates didn't make sense
the weird teachings of Russell and Rutherford
I disagreed with the shunning, and the blood policy
The UN, Malawi, etc.

Despite all this, I stayed in! I reasoned that in the end, they were doing more good than bad.

Then, I finally read the books of Raymond Franz: This truly opened my eyes. The fruits I'd see with the organization were all about sustaining the organization. They preach door to door and in kingdom halls leaving barely enough time to practice what they teach. Charity is not simply sharing ideas, it involves actual actions. Sure, they do some actions, just not enough compared to the time dedicated to talking about it.

In his book, he denounced how they expect the brothers to be "humble and not boastful with pride" by questioning their teachings. In reality, to set this expectation while also admitting that they are not inspired makes THEM the guilty party here.

Still, I stayed. At that point, I thought I could do some changes from within. I had fun from time to time in exposing their beliefs by playing the overzealous. Or presenting things in a truthful, accurate way, and yet, in a light that they were not used to.

For instance, at a super, a brother said how horrified he was that some Muslims had stoned a girl who committed fornication. I said: "Objectively speaking, there is nothing wrong with that. They are simply still following the Mosaic Law. Heck, under Moses, there was even a man who was stoned to death for picking up woods on the Sabbath. I don't think that the word "horrified" is advised here knowing that Jehovah himself definitely approved stoning only 3 days ago. You know, a day for a thousand years? – There was a very odd silence at the table.

Then my kids started to be old enough to listen at the hall. That was the deal breaker for me. I realized that I would not be able to teach my own beliefs. Being kids, they could express these contrary beliefs in the wrong place, at the wrong people, and I could have faced a JC at any time. Essentially, JWs are required to give complete authority to 7 men in NY, even over their own kid’s spiritual education. I could not allow this. I left.

16

Do you work a lot of overtime?

by hoser in

jw
friends

what is the normal attitude as to working overtime?

.

how many hours do you work in a week?.

StephaneLaliberte

I work about 40 hours a week. Funny thing is that when I was a witness, I used to work a whole lot! in average of 60 to 80 hours a week. But then since I left, I started to enjoy other type of activities. I was doing overtime just to have a good excuse not to go to meetings. I would then turn around and say: I wish I had a choice but there is no other way! Reality is: I was looking for a way out.

That being said, I don't mind doing overtime here and there. But now, I enjoy life while I have my health and my family. One day or the next I will end up losing these things and I don't want to look back with regret on the days that I knew that I could've been satisfied with less material possessions.

96

New Shunning Video - RC 2016

by wifibandit in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g20rww_-7ua.

StephaneLaliberte

And to think that my mother in law and my dad will see this crap.... it turns my stomach.

70

Someone anonymously tipped the elders?

by raven in

so here an update on my current situation, in a nutshell i've been trying to quietly fade for the past 5 months.. well, my mom somehow found out that i am currently fading and that i live with my boyfriend (for more info on this check my previous posts) i told her yes i live with him and yes i no longer want to be a jw.

anyways, yesterday she met my boyfriend.. awkward.

and after lunch she pulled me aside to tell me that the po came up to her (he was part of my jc when i was reproved) he said to her "someone came to me and said - i cannot say who so they will remain anonymous- but that your daughter is living with someone" my mom confirmed and apparently he told her that i have one week to confess this, and if i don't my parents are obligated to tell them everything.. what kind of nonsense is that?

StephaneLaliberte

problemaddict 2: Please note that the circumstance under which I am advising to lie are very specific. There are elders threatening raven with emotional violence: Coercing families to shun relatives is evil and worst than the majority of the sins JWs preach against.

When I started my fade, I called and met my close relatives and friends and told them exactly what I was going to do. That I did not believe in the teachings of the watchtower and had decided to fade. I don't lie to people I love and respect. The way I saw it, if two of them would've sat before me in a JC to accuse me, twice (appeal JC), than, clearly, I chose the wrong friends and didn't mind not talking to them at all.

In the end, I believe we need to be truthful. Truth generally is the best way. You can walk with your head up on high and not worry about keeping up a web of lies.

However, when I see elders wanting to coerce my loved ones to ignore me based on twisted biblical logic... all of a sudden, I become very creative and say whatever they want to hear. :) And than, as they walk away, I have that feeling where I could spit on the floor and curse at them.

70

Someone anonymously tipped the elders?

by raven in

so here an update on my current situation, in a nutshell i've been trying to quietly fade for the past 5 months.. well, my mom somehow found out that i am currently fading and that i live with my boyfriend (for more info on this check my previous posts) i told her yes i live with him and yes i no longer want to be a jw.

anyways, yesterday she met my boyfriend.. awkward.

and after lunch she pulled me aside to tell me that the po came up to her (he was part of my jc when i was reproved) he said to her "someone came to me and said - i cannot say who so they will remain anonymous- but that your daughter is living with someone" my mom confirmed and apparently he told her that i have one week to confess this, and if i don't my parents are obligated to tell them everything.. what kind of nonsense is that?

StephaneLaliberte

If I draw from my own personal experience: I am always very friendly with JWs. I'm even helpful when I can. And than, I lie straight to their face whenever I need to. Heck, these people are frequently lied to by the watchtower and they like it on a daily basis! I know it sounds condescending, but the reality is: they just want to be happy and generally ignore the inconvenient lie.

70

Someone anonymously tipped the elders?

by raven in

so here an update on my current situation, in a nutshell i've been trying to quietly fade for the past 5 months.. well, my mom somehow found out that i am currently fading and that i live with my boyfriend (for more info on this check my previous posts) i told her yes i live with him and yes i no longer want to be a jw.

anyways, yesterday she met my boyfriend.. awkward.

and after lunch she pulled me aside to tell me that the po came up to her (he was part of my jc when i was reproved) he said to her "someone came to me and said - i cannot say who so they will remain anonymous- but that your daughter is living with someone" my mom confirmed and apparently he told her that i have one week to confess this, and if i don't my parents are obligated to tell them everything.. what kind of nonsense is that?

StephaneLaliberte

problemaddict 2: Sounds all good to me :)

70

Someone anonymously tipped the elders?

by raven in

so here an update on my current situation, in a nutshell i've been trying to quietly fade for the past 5 months.. well, my mom somehow found out that i am currently fading and that i live with my boyfriend (for more info on this check my previous posts) i told her yes i live with him and yes i no longer want to be a jw.

anyways, yesterday she met my boyfriend.. awkward.

and after lunch she pulled me aside to tell me that the po came up to her (he was part of my jc when i was reproved) he said to her "someone came to me and said - i cannot say who so they will remain anonymous- but that your daughter is living with someone" my mom confirmed and apparently he told her that i have one week to confess this, and if i don't my parents are obligated to tell them everything.. what kind of nonsense is that?

StephaneLaliberte

DJS: I am getting annoyed by your overly condescending tone. Chill a little. All I ask for is a conversation with respect and I get plenty of insults from you.

I have been on this board for 9 years and you know what? I think I can only remember 2 people who successfully sent a lawyer letter. I am not saying that there can't be more. All I am stating is that obviously, this is not a popular route.

Like I said, perhaps lying would not work in her area. However, you cannot dismiss the fact that I have witnessed people around me successfully lie their way through elders and JCs. The large majority of JWs get disfellowshipped because they confess. She doesn't have to confess and should not.

70

Someone anonymously tipped the elders?

by raven in

so here an update on my current situation, in a nutshell i've been trying to quietly fade for the past 5 months.. well, my mom somehow found out that i am currently fading and that i live with my boyfriend (for more info on this check my previous posts) i told her yes i live with him and yes i no longer want to be a jw.

anyways, yesterday she met my boyfriend.. awkward.

and after lunch she pulled me aside to tell me that the po came up to her (he was part of my jc when i was reproved) he said to her "someone came to me and said - i cannot say who so they will remain anonymous- but that your daughter is living with someone" my mom confirmed and apparently he told her that i have one week to confess this, and if i don't my parents are obligated to tell them everything.. what kind of nonsense is that?

StephaneLaliberte

DJS: Two things I would like to ask you: When were you an elder? 2, 10, 20 years ago? Also, why would it not be advisable to try lying before using the lawyer route?

FYI: If I think of the elders in my area, 30 years ago, they would have asked for the wedding pictures, the certificate, and would have called the witnesses of my wedding. Now, they would just take my word for it.

70

Someone anonymously tipped the elders?

by raven in

so here an update on my current situation, in a nutshell i've been trying to quietly fade for the past 5 months.. well, my mom somehow found out that i am currently fading and that i live with my boyfriend (for more info on this check my previous posts) i told her yes i live with him and yes i no longer want to be a jw.

anyways, yesterday she met my boyfriend.. awkward.

and after lunch she pulled me aside to tell me that the po came up to her (he was part of my jc when i was reproved) he said to her "someone came to me and said - i cannot say who so they will remain anonymous- but that your daughter is living with someone" my mom confirmed and apparently he told her that i have one week to confess this, and if i don't my parents are obligated to tell them everything.. what kind of nonsense is that?

StephaneLaliberte

Well, looks like elders in my area are not as harsh as in your area. so, in that respect, you may be right. If she has "nazi" elders...you are totally right. Still, that does not mean that what I said would not work in my area (Canada, Ontario/Quebec).