Posts by StephaneLaliberte

66

Watchtower fined in Belgium

by Vanderhoven7 in

jehovah's witnesses in belgium have to pay €12k fine for shunning policy.

news.

you have probably heard of the trial going on in belgium about the shunning policy of jws.

StephaneLaliberte

becoming a JW is a voluntary association.

I don't think people who sign up to become JWs truly understand what shunning is all about. Sure, they certainly mention it, but never really go into the details, or when they do, they do it so briefly that it is difficult to grasp its true nature.

They make it sound like the people being disfellowshipped are truly bad people, on par with murderers, adulterers, violent alcoholics and lying deceitful cunning sinners that actively want to harm you. They make it sound like a good thing, for your protection! They dehumanize them. As for the others, well, its only a brief temporary disciplinary measure; they’ll be back in a year or so.

Newcomers generally fail to grasp that disfellowshipping is not about the sin, its about the adherence to the group membership. Consider that many people get disfellowshipped for some sin they eventually stop practicing, and yet, their shunning continues to the end of their lives. They are not shunned because of what they did, they are shunned because they did not try to get back into the group. And so, the group simply takes the position that the person must still be actively practicing some sin or another. For instance, think of all the young ones who got disfellowshipped for practicing fornication and have since married; yet, they remain shunned by their family.

We can also doubt that new commers grasp the following possibilities: When you get baptized today, you agree with several teachings and practices that will change over the years to come. You may not agree with some of those changes and refuse to remain a JW. Or perhaps, as you study into greater depth the history of your religion and the basis of its teachings, you may choose to leave the group. Then again, you will be treated as a relentless sinner, a perpetual evil doer and loose contact with all of your JWs connections (friends and family).

Absurd situations like these will happen because all these people will not have the right to make this assessment for themselves, or to review their position over time. They are ordered by their religion to do this and as a result, the majority of them entirely avoid the process of thinking and considering the matter; there is no options, only the one that is ordered.

56

Do You Get Easily Offended By What People Do or Don’t Do?

by minimus in

jw
friends

does using uncle ben’s food products offend you?.

are you offended if you see a flag?

what about a confederate flag?.

StephaneLaliberte

Quite frankly, I'm starting to be offended by all the people that feel offended. The topic of genders, races, sex preferences, discrimination, etc is starting to get on my nerve. There's no escape from it. Its in the news, the radio, all over facebook, on this site, and even in mandatory training from the company where I work! I'm fed up with that topic.

Can we just live in piece???!!!!

50

Prove That Jehovah’s Witnesses Do Not Have The “Truth”

by minimus in

jw
friends

someone is researching jehovah’s witnesses.

they happen to come on to this site.

do the witnesses have the truth??.

StephaneLaliberte

They are the ones making the claim, they should be the ones to prove it. Its like someone asking: Prove that a tea pot is not orbiting around the earth. Wouldn't it make sense for the burden of proof to be placed on the one making the claim in the first place?

Nevertheless, here are some reasons I can think of :

JWs don't practice forgiveness in a Christian manner. For instance, a women is disfellowshiped for fornication; then marries to fix the situation. She will remain disfellowshipped until she follows several man made rules. In the meantime, she will be treated the same as someone God hates. Logically, the moment she says "I DO" should be it.
They judge people excessively. They will shun people for smoking, voting, celebrating birthdays. If they stop to think about Jesus' teachings, it is excessive.
They made prophecies that have not come to be true. They try to weasel they're way out of it playing with words, but the bottom line is: They made assertions claiming to be God's teachings and they failed.
They conceal and lie about their history. Anyone who talks a bit too long on their troubled past and teachings will be considered apostates or spiritually weak at best.
They teach that God, who loved humanity so much that he gave his only son, will soon come to destroy its greater majority, a majority who never heard their message!
A group of man demand the same authority as Mosses and other prophets in the past had while claiming NOT to be inspired. You cannot have it both ways.

13

Was the latest letter about not having unauthorized studies announced yet to the congregation today is 3-18-21

by goingthruthemotions in

i am just curios if the letter about not having unauthorized studies has been announced yet to the congregation?.

i am just wondering if it will opens anyone's eyes.

i sure hope it does.

StephaneLaliberte

I remember there was a ministry article that went along the same lines right around the time I became PIMO. if you have the truth, no matter how you look at it, from which ever angle, it will still be the truth. That kind of rule is obvious fear of loosing control over people that don't have a firm grip on reality.

43

When You Were A Witness Did You Believe Everything Taught?

by minimus in

jw
friends

obviously at some point you stopped believing the witnesses had the truth or else you wouldn’t be here.

.

but for the most part, were you a true believer or were you typically a rebel or a doubter?

StephaneLaliberte

First time I disagreed with the WT teachings was in the revelation book we studied when I was 9 (1988). There was a bit on conventions in the states that accomplished the prophecy of the trumpets and I felt they were incredibly self-centered and boastful to make a claim like that. Then, as the years progressed, I never fully believed the prophecies based on dates. A lot of people around me got disfellowshipped for that and I perceived it as a weakness to believe the “dates” to the commas and periods.

When I was old enough, I had a conversation with an elder who asked me why I didn't want to be a ministerial servant. I explained that I could not, in good conscience, teach things I doubted. He advised me to "wait on Jehovah". That many things he personally disagreed with were eventually fixed on Jehovah's schedule. In the meantime, people came to the meetings, not to hear what we personally believe but what the faithful slave is teaching. So, when we’re on that podium, we may, from time to time, need the humility to teach things we don’t agree with.

That explanation appeared valid to me, and yet, I could never really shake off the idea that I needed to believe things in order to teach them. So, even though I stayed in for another 15 years or so, I never was able to become a ministerial servant. And as the years went by, I did notice many brothers who were teaching in some capacity or another seemed to be following that advise.

The breaking point was when I was supposed to teach these things to my kids… unable to do that, my family and I faded out.

66

Watchtower fined in Belgium

by Vanderhoven7 in

jehovah's witnesses in belgium have to pay €12k fine for shunning policy.

news.

you have probably heard of the trial going on in belgium about the shunning policy of jws.

StephaneLaliberte

what other religious beliefs or practices might state legislation prohibit?

Anything that is abusive, violent, or causes harm to others. That's not too difficult. Do we accept stoning? Or cutting your hand if you steal something? Or do we accept the concept that a women might be owned by any man? Of course not. You want to wear a cross or a head covering? Go ahead! But black mailing people through organized shunning is clearly abusive.

66

Watchtower fined in Belgium

by Vanderhoven7 in

jehovah's witnesses in belgium have to pay €12k fine for shunning policy.

news.

you have probably heard of the trial going on in belgium about the shunning policy of jws.

StephaneLaliberte

The basic situation is this:

Some religions/cults are actively abusing their members by breaking apart their family and social circle. What ever the legal arguments and path to make it punishable, religions are presently orchestrating the emotional abuse of thousands of people and this needs to stop.

Now, I understand that the legal systems is not easy, but it doesn't mean that it can't do anything about it. I believe this type of judgement is a step in the right direction.

47

What is the most insensitive thing an Overseer or Elder has ever said and done to you?

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

what is the most insensitive thing an overseer or elder has ever said and done to you?

i have had many insensitive things said to me by some elders, but for some reason one self-righteous elder was always on my case.

he didn't like the fact that i missed meetings, didn't like that i never went out in field service, that i didn't answer at the weekly meetings and he didn't like that i carried my books and magazines in my hands and not a service/book bag.

StephaneLaliberte

Following up on my last comment, again when my sister passed away, my mom was also disfellowshiped at the time. Two elders came to my apartment for a pastoral visit. They started with a prayer, read some bible passages and then showed a kingdom ministry advising me not to use the current situation as an excuse to talk to my disfellowshipped mother.

I wasn't hurt by what they said as I was expecting nothing else from them anyways. I was so used to being double face with them that I actually said thank you for coming and right after they left, called my mother. And yet, to this day, I still regret not confronting them about their inhuman intervention/ I should have thrown them out of my place.

47

What is the most insensitive thing an Overseer or Elder has ever said and done to you?

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

what is the most insensitive thing an overseer or elder has ever said and done to you?

i have had many insensitive things said to me by some elders, but for some reason one self-righteous elder was always on my case.

he didn't like the fact that i missed meetings, didn't like that i never went out in field service, that i didn't answer at the weekly meetings and he didn't like that i carried my books and magazines in my hands and not a service/book bag.

StephaneLaliberte

To be honnest, most elders and overseers I met were nice people doing their best, so I don't have many stories. Still, I do have some. Here is the first one that comes to mind:

When my sister passed away in a violent car accident, she was disfellowshiped at the time. At the meeting, this guy comes up to me and says: "Far from Jehovah, there is only death." Had we been outside of that hall, I would have decked him. However, unable to give in to my violent urges, I had to absorb the violence of his words. It was the first time in my life that I truly understood how some people can be hurt by words. Oh, I've been ridiculed and bullied in my life, but this was the first time that words truly hurt me.

I shared my conversation with other elders and family and they were just as shocked as me by this. He had to call me and family back and say sorry. I also know that his responsibilities were lightened up a bit, which is actually a a light form of discipline, but discipline nonetheless.

39

Prince Harry and Meghan

by minimus in

jw
friends

what do you think of these two?.

StephaneLaliberte

I find many similarities with cults/religions in that there are no proper boundaries between the organization and personal life.

For instance, JW kids grow up in a controlling environment where they are told that everything, they do reflect’s on Jehovah (aka: their religion).

Same goes for people born into the monarchy: they can’t go where they please and a large portion of their personal life is controlled by others.

I was thinking of some similarities as well with the Vatican, or the GB. These people live in secluded areas. Sure, there are advantages, but in the end, you don’t have freedom.

We all have limits on our freedom. Everyone. For instance, though there is no law preventing me to traval, I’ve never seen the other end of my own country due to time and finance. But I do take for granted basic freedom such as walking down in the market and worrying about someone taking a pic of me scratching my bum.

For prince Harry, he was born into this. He’s trying to escape this and taste freedom. Still, even now, he doesn’t really have it. He needs to worry about security and a lot of media attention. So, he’s still not as free as most of us are. There is a lot of freedom in being anonymous.

As for his wife… well, she married into it… she had a choice and took that choice as a grown women… so, in terms of responsibility, a good part of it falls on her shoulder. Still, that doesn’t mean we can’t feel pity for her.