Back when I was sitting at the District Convention either 95 or 96, I can't recall, they had a whole talk on it one afternoon. And the speaker, FROM BETHEL, said "this generation no longer means just a singular generation of people (i.e. 1914 generation) the new light we've received on this means, generations upon generations". That moment, that EXACT moment in history was what planted the "this is BS seed" in my head. Then I started looking up more info on the organization and realized that there was LOTS of BS. One day my grandma told me I was an apostate for having independent thoughts, and that I'd end up "just like that Ray Franz, who thought he was too smart too".
bluesbreaker59
JoinedPosts by bluesbreaker59
-
36
1914 & Generation What change?
by johnnyc ini have read through many posts on this website that refer to the fact wtbts changed their viewpoint on generation and its relevance to 1914. there was just an article out in the wt (last six months) that reiterated the fact this viewpoint did not change, and that the wtbts still expects the generation who were around in 1914 to physically see the conclusion of this system and the visible second coming of jesus here on earth.
the wtbts did state they consider anyone being born in 1914 would be applicable, which is a change from earlier discussions, but they have not (from what i have seen) said that generation could pass away altogether.
sincerely i ask: if anyone has that information i would love to see it.
-
-
-
18
I dont know what to do
by Ex-smoker inok so i was raised in the truth and a lot of jw belifes are indoctrinated in me(big suprize) the main ones being that the dead are conscies of nothing and that jesus is gods son and not god.
i never got baptized and at 17 i started to doubt all orginized religion but in the back of my mind saying that if theres no hell why serve god.
at 21 my life was a mess i was addicted to drugs and thought that it was satans system that was doing this to me and i should give the truth a chance again so i moved back home.
-
-
bluesbreaker59
Welcome and DO NOT get baptized
-
67
God dammit!!! I hate this cult!
by bluesbreaker59 inso my girlfriend and i are getting very serious, and i've bought her engagement ring, should be done being built sometime in may.
then at some point later, i'm going to ask her to marry me.
she was with me and picked out her ring, so she knows its coming.
-
-
bluesbreaker59
Matthew 7:1&2, what does it say?
Luke 6:43? "No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit." Therefore Russell was the tree, well he was WRONG, on MANY, MANY, MANY counts... Therefore there can be no good fruit
1 Cor 4:4-6 - My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God. Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.
2 Peter 2:1-3 - But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
Jeremiah 23:31-33 - "Yes," declares the LORD, "I am against the prophets who wag their own tongues and yet declare, 'The LORD declares.' Indeed, I am against those who prophesy false dreams," declares the LORD. "They tell them and lead my people astray with their reckless lies, yet I did not send or appoint them. They do not benefit these people in the least," declares the LORD. When these people, or a prophet or a priest, ask you, 'What is the oracle [a] of the LORD ?' say to them, 'What oracle? [b] I will forsake you, declares the LORD.
The false prophet here is Russell, Rutherford, and the entire WTBTS... and anyone else who declares in his name, that includes talking about "The End of False Religion is Near", "Armageddon is just ' around the corner' ", all the failed predictions over the years, that means the WTBTS is a false prophet. Tell me, when did the Catholic church last make an end of the world prediction?
-
67
God dammit!!! I hate this cult!
by bluesbreaker59 inso my girlfriend and i are getting very serious, and i've bought her engagement ring, should be done being built sometime in may.
then at some point later, i'm going to ask her to marry me.
she was with me and picked out her ring, so she knows its coming.
-
-
bluesbreaker59
Beroean,
Your M.O. on this thread is nothing more than defending the shunning practice. You go ahead and follow that, then, and STOP TALKING TO ME, ok? Your great Jehooba teaches that, the god that will strike down children, good people, and YOU, if you continue speaking to me. To put JW's in control of everything...
You really should get out and associate with more than Dubs. Do you even know what Satanists believe? Or do you just follow what the JW's tell you they believe? Perhaps you should look into it and learn. I was wrong in what I thought they believed, and I RESPECT them for their beliefs, even though they differ from my own. Believe it or not though, I can still have a friendship with these ones, because religion is rarely discussed. See that's the thing, Dubs are notorious about shoving their dogma down everyone's throats all the time. They can't go more than an hour without talking in their Dub speak language or talking about some talk, example, assembly, etc.
Natural love, is what I speak of. The love between a husband and wife. The love between parents and children. Not sick twisted love, that you bring up. Then again I suppose you are more familiar with pedophiles, the Dubs seem to have plenty.
As for pastors having cars, houses, etc. I know for a fact that the two pastors that I speak of, were given "hand me down" cars from family. One lives in a very small home (with wife and child), almost an apartment on the site of the church, and the other he and his wife (who works) totally renovated the house by his own sweat. Neither of them "ride in limos", far from it. They are both very humble men, that live simple humble lives.
You wanna talk about PLEAS FOR MONEY??? The Dubs do this constantly, with their "always short" expense reports at assemblies, "donation" arrangement for service and publishers magazines (double dipping here), pleading for money from the podium at the hall for local needs parts, etc. The CO, constantly getting "green handshakes", dinners bought, expensive gifts, etc. I saw this all first hand as an elder's kid, BTW my dad and step-grandpa were both elders, grandpa was the PO til he died. CO's were constantly getting big, luxurious meals and expensive gifts. So don't go pointing the finger at "Christendom", your CULT is just as guilty, and I saw it all from a front row seat.
As for being "new" to something... I spent 25+ years in the JW church, so I'm pretty much an expert on that. I saw all that "fake love" of which you speak, I also saw some genuine love here and there. I'm not a liar, I admit when I'm wrong, and I'll call people on their BS, and I'll question things when they change the rules in the middle of the game.
YOU are the one confusing love and discipline friend... I gave myself my own discipline, by writing my letter and telling them I no longer wanted to be a Dub. I still love my family, the Bible never speaks of families having to be cut off because leaving the congregation. That's a man made law. I don't WANT to be "part of the congregation", therefore I WILL NOT, go repent, and go to 6 months - 1 year of meetings just to speak to my family. That is the dumbest thing ever, true repentance is between you and God, and having faith in Jesus, who redeems you of your sin. Its very simple.
As for proving God's chosen people, I think we all are, as long as we seek to have a personal relationship with Christ, and try to uphold the principles taught in the scriptures, NOT man made rules and opinions on blood fractions, and other wishy washy policies.
Do you masturbate? Do you think of other women? Do you have oral or anal sex? How bout sex that's not for procreation purposes? All these are also sins of immorality, even if its done with your wife in the confines of marriage. Recall the scripture of "wasting your semen upon the earth". The sin of immorality is NO GREATER of a sin than any other sin, something that JW's need to remember. Sinning is sinning no matter what. Overeating, over drinking, smacking around the wife, irritating children, gambling, idolatry, BOASTING, watching NFL (according to Bro. Loesch), etc.
I looked up your scriptures too, 2 Cor. is totally on my side: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Cor.%202:5-11;&version=31 ;
Verse 6-8 - The punishment inflicted on him by the majority is sufficient for him. Now instead, you ought to forgive and comfort him, so that he will not be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. I urge you, therefore, to reaffirm your love for him.
So I excused myself from the congo, FIRST, therefore really wasn't a member, therefore their punishment, was null and void. But by the example in 2 Cor. you should already be forgiving me and loving me, so as to not cause excessive sorrow. That's the Bible's word, not mine.
Show me where it says for parents to cut off their children for one thing, but then call them up, go out to eat, etc. at other times... How is that right? That's just confusing, and playing by your own rules.
-
67
God dammit!!! I hate this cult!
by bluesbreaker59 inso my girlfriend and i are getting very serious, and i've bought her engagement ring, should be done being built sometime in may.
then at some point later, i'm going to ask her to marry me.
she was with me and picked out her ring, so she knows its coming.
-
-
bluesbreaker59
In fact, in the account the prodigal son, ONLY repented to his father. There was nothing at all in there about going to elders, or older men, etc. He just begged on his father's forgiveness. THIS was the standard of repentance in the Bible, not what the Borg teaches. His father then gave him a fattened calf, and welcomed him back with opened arms. This is the kind of love that Christ taught.
The only reason the Borg teaches against associating with outsiders is because they want INFORMATION CONTROL, its that simple. They don't want anyone to see that people can actually be just fine without them, and they don't want people digging into their past. That is very evident by them updating their backlog of Watchtower bound volumes where there were "predictions". Also no mention of digging into early teachings of Russell or some of the koo-koo ideas of Rutherford. Then there is the constant flip flops on blood, "this generation", oral sex, organ transplants, etc. All that is "old light", and you're not allowed to question, otherwise, you're an apostate.
-
67
God dammit!!! I hate this cult!
by bluesbreaker59 inso my girlfriend and i are getting very serious, and i've bought her engagement ring, should be done being built sometime in may.
then at some point later, i'm going to ask her to marry me.
she was with me and picked out her ring, so she knows its coming.
-
-
bluesbreaker59
Beroean,
I ask why you are here, because you're not allowed to talk to DF'd ones according to your CULT.
I have ZERO anger issues, just fed up with you, and the ridiculousness of the way outdated and CULT-ish practice of shunning.
I invite you to come over to Iowa, we'll sit down and chat. You bring a copy of the King James bible and so will I, and we'll both bring our common sense. No info from "mother" allowed.
Jesus taught love would be the underlying quality of his followers, how loving is it disfellowship someone? To cut them off from their family? Over a forced decision made when one was a minor? If I leave any church out there, and I have friends that I play sports with on Wed. nights, or go shoot pool with, they would STILL be my friends after I left the church. For example, I have friends that are Lutheran, Catholic, Methodist, Presbyterian, non-denominational, atheist, and satanist. NONE of them care where I go, or if I go, we're still friends regardless. If I left a CULT, then the other members of the CULT would be told not to have any contact with me. The witnesses do this same CULT practice of shunning and not allowing independent thought to be discussed. They also don't allow you to talk about past failed doctrines.
The example of the prodigal son, had the son going to god in prayer, not going to older men, and being forced to go back to 6 months to 1 year worth of meetings, correct? You know I'm right, face it. The governing body and elders use this repentance and JC meeting process to hold power. It is an UNBIBLICAL practice. The Bible only commands us to go to God in prayer, then it goes on to say we MAY go to the older men to pray over us, and annoint our heads with oil... The repentance and forgiveness takes place by our relationship with Christ and our belief that he is our savior. Not in the forgiveness of 2/3 old men in a back room.
I'd also invite you to check out some other churches Sunday services, go to a Methodist church or a Presbyterian church, listen to their pastors. They speak kind words, refreshing words, and renew you in the spirit of Christ.
As far as the comment, "trusting people only because they don't swear or drink". You're taking that too literally and you know it. I trust people only after having sufficient one on one time with them, talking with them, talking with others that know them, and observing their habits, and practices. There are 3 pastors I've come to know like this since leaving the Borg, and they all 3 are filled with joy, love, and peace, and the spirit of Christ. I've spent a very considerable amount of time with 2 of them, and they aren't the "money hungry" people that the WTBTS make them out to be. Frankly they both live very meager lives, dedicating many hours to their flock, their families, their ministry, and their communities. Both of them EXUDE love, whether or not you stick in large or small or NO contributions. They truly show the real spirit of Christ, IMHO.
Most elders I knew, were exasperated, too busy to be bothered. Most used their own opinions to counsel, most I knew were very HEAVY eaters, and overweight, which goes directly against the Bible. Lots of them also didn't do much in the way of service, and they all seemed to like to hear themselves talk. Many were also big drinkers. Every MS I knew were big drinkers, some were drunks, and would show up to the hall and do their parts after 6 or 7 beers. None of them did a single thing for their communities.
As far as Hellfire, the Trinity and the Immortality of the Soul, Rapture, Earthly paradise, neither of us has SEEN these things, because neither of us have died. So really, do you KNOW? No you don't. Its all theory until it happens. Much like many of the Dubs other failed prophecies. Anyone can make large grandiose predictions, the Dubs get the advantage of telling their members, when prophecy hasn't been fulfilled that they received NEW LIGHT!!!
When the CBS sports announcers predict a blowout in a football game, they have to defend their position, they don't get to receive NEW LIGHT, late in the 4th quarter, when they see their prediction is dead wrong.
-
67
God dammit!!! I hate this cult!
by bluesbreaker59 inso my girlfriend and i are getting very serious, and i've bought her engagement ring, should be done being built sometime in may.
then at some point later, i'm going to ask her to marry me.
she was with me and picked out her ring, so she knows its coming.
-
-
bluesbreaker59
Beroean,
Read this all slowly, so you understand it, ok? Not explaining this again...
Again, I ask you, what did Jesus teach? He taught about love being the greatest commandments, this is indisputable. Why are you on a board of ex JW's? You're not "even to have a meal with such a man", according to "mother". Why did you choose to come on a thread about my future wedding, and take a crap on it? Perhaps you'd like to meet with me in person and do that? You're not far from me, I'd be happy to meet you...
My point about meeting with the elders is simple. I met with one group at my old hall, for MY EX WIFE'S committee... That was where all the back room yelling took place. The PO, or "head janitor" as I like to call him, he was a piece of work, he worked part time driving school buses, and couldn't provide even basics for his family, I believe the Bible has some counsel on that too... He sat back there and yelled at the top of his lungs, even SWEARING at one point at me (Damn was the word of choice). Telling me how I HAD TO take my ex back after she'd been seen staying WEEKENDS at a worldly man's house. He kept rattling on about the evidence not being conclusive, and how she denied having relations with this man. Trying to counsel me from the scriptures. Finally it was MY TURN to speak, I spoke my mind, showed them my research, gave them the names of all my witnesses that saw this behavior of my ex, etc. He tried not to look at my research from the publications, so I pointed at the papers, and I got louder, and slammed my hands around a bit to get his attention. I'll tell ya if I see him on my street in service, he's in for trouble, probably turn the garden hose on him, so he can feel "persecuted".
THEN, I moved halls, after waiting another 6 months on the original committee to do something. I started going to my family's hall, and did that for a year and a half. I stopped attending in November 2006. That same time I started looking for women and dating. I got in trouble for sex, got private reproof, because I WENT TO THEM!!! I felt guilty about this. That FREE-ED me according to their asenine standards. I then took a trip out of state to visit my mother, I decided while I was down there that I didn't want that life for me or my future children. So I decided that I'd never return to the CULT when I got back to Iowa. Then I continued the relationship I was in, and my EX-wife, found out because she ILLEGALLY got into my old email account. So by illegal means, I was brought up on charges. I didn't avoid the elders, or play games, I answered their calls, and told them I'd just write a letter, because I don't want to meet with them.
Got it? Good...
My father I love deeply, but there needs to be some mutual respect of decisions in life. I don't beg him to leave the JW's, like he begs me to return. I don't tell him to celebrate holidays, like he says not to. I don't bug people in door to door ministry, when they'd rather sleep. I'd love to hang out with him again, because our relationship was NEVER, EVER, EVER based on religion. It was based on love between a father and a son. He never talked to me about JW stuff when I was growing up, never studied with me, never pushed service. My grandma (who lived with us), constantly was harping on me to get baptized, and so my dad and stepmom, gave me an ultimatum about baptism, either do it now, or we'll disown you when you're 18, so I had to get baptized when I was 14. Ridiculous!!! Not exactly a "dedication" to Jehooba. I never said a "dedication" prayer, and I DID NOT give myself to an organization. I gave myself to God, therefore when I sin, I talk to God, not earthly men.
Now answer my questions, about Love, the prodigal son, and using ONLY the Bible, prove to me that Jesus picked your organization in 1919... Also, look up Brother Russell, and some of his teachings, especially in regards to pyramidology, and failed predictions on the end of the world.
I'm not HOSTILE, and I'm SURE AS HELL not your "bro"... As far as hypocrisy in Christendom, you better look at the witnesses too, plenty of hypocrites, some of the biggest are the ones that are running the show. All man made religions have flaws. I have to say though that my future FIL (Pastor) has more on the ball than most elders or CO's that I ever encountered, and lives a cleaner life than any elder. The man doesn't even drink or swear for goodness sake. You know how many drunk elders that I knew?
I'm now DONE with you.
-
40
Why no dub buzz over the new generation change?
by oompa inor have i just missed it?
i finally had to tell my active wife about it....the wt lesson is next week but she has not read it yet, and none of her friends have mentioned it to her.
big buzz in 1995 when i was active, but hear very little except here now.
-
-
bluesbreaker59
My aunt (barely hanging on JW) knew nothing about it, I was telling her about a generation change.
My guess is this one will not effect that many at all, maybe a few more intelligent ones, that know their history BUT haven't devoted their whole lives to it. Those with long lives in, and with big families, will NEVER see the REAL truth about this.
-
67
God dammit!!! I hate this cult!
by bluesbreaker59 inso my girlfriend and i are getting very serious, and i've bought her engagement ring, should be done being built sometime in may.
then at some point later, i'm going to ask her to marry me.
she was with me and picked out her ring, so she knows its coming.
-
-
bluesbreaker59
They also SELFISHLY, raised me a witless and wouldn't allow me to research any other religions or lines of thinking.
I've had to deal with a JW funeral, why can't they come and observe me and my future wife on the happiest day of our life? Have you forgot what it is to be human? To FEEL?
Are you familiar with "The Prodigal Son"??? It never said he had to go the elders and repent, and then go to 6-12 months of meetings afterwards, rather he just returned to his father, and was FORGIVEN.
Witnesses forget that Jesus taught about LOVE, and FORGIVENESS, all they see and remember is punishment. What were the greatest commandments? Oh yes, they dealt with LOVE... So how loving is it for an organization to come between parents and children? To say you can't speak or see them? Because of a very minor indescretion. The Bible only instructs us to go to god in prayer for forgiveness, I've done that, and I live a very good Christian life, trying to be the best person I can be everyday, and make my community a better place to live by showing LOVE to others, and HELPING others.
What do JW's do for their community? They wake people on Saturdays, to try and sell magazines, and convert them, and ask them to "question and examine" their faith. Meanwhile the JW's aren't allowed to do research on their own because "mother" doesn't allow it, and "mother" fears that the REAL TRUTH about the TROOF will get out there.
I recommend that you examine yourself, and your relationship with Christ, before you come throwing stones at me.
-
9
Any fans of Buck Owens and the Buckaroos? Traditional country???
by bluesbreaker59 ini've been on a country kick lately, which is driving my girlfriend batty, but you see growing up on a farm and all, and doing chores with my dad and grandpa, we listened to old time country.
there were a couple am stations that played it when i was a little boy (80's)... so we'd hear, buck, george jones, johnny cash, merle haggard, ernest tubb, don williams, paycheck, tammy wynette, loretta lynn, patsy cline, etc.
i remember when dwight yoakam came out and dad and i were both sad, because grandpa wasn't around to hear him, and his bakersfield sound.. i sometimes didn't always like it then, and there is still some that i don't care for.
-
-
bluesbreaker59
Yeah I love Americana music, one of my all time favorites is David Zollo, he has 5 of his own cds out, and live he sings a lot of Haggard and Buck at his shows. I've had the good fortune of being his lead guitarist for a few shows too. Check him out on myspace. Also Ryan Bingham is cool, and I loved the original Son Volt lineup. I hate Wilco and Jeff Tweedy's voice though...