Posts by writetoknow

73

When DID the Jews return?

by Doug Mason in

the wts says that the key date in the jews return from babylon is tishri 1 537 bce.. the wts uses that date to arrive at its incorrect date of 607 bce for the destruction of jerusalem.

in turn, its 607 bce date is used to provide the date of october 1914 ce for christs parousia and the setting up of gods kingdom government.

the wts claims to be the sole representative upon earth of gods kingdom.. the date of the jews return is thus crucial to the watchtower societys (wts) existence and authority.

No one associated with the Watchtower Bible Tract Society has every claimed to be a scholar. In fact, if one consider a brother were to claim themselves to be such they would be considered arrogant and presumptuous.

They would be reproved and if the term was not dropped possibly removed from the organization. The society has always taken a firm stand that all brothers in position of oversight are quailfied by God's Holy Spirit. Thus, they are not to be known by any formal name such as Dr. of Theoglogy or scholar. JW's have went to great lengthen not to reveal any name associated with research including the New World Trannslation of the bible. Although greatly critized by real scholars for not doing so.

This pseudonym "celebrated Watchtower scholar" cannot be found in any of the billions of publications written by JW's. Furthermore, any person out of the purview not directly appointed by the GB to do research is forbidden by the organziation of JW's.

Moverover, anyone that in good standing with JW's found to be on this site knowingly would be disfellowshipped without question. Subsequently, any person within the organization calling themselves a scholar publicly would be removed as a person seeking self-glory.

Based on these comments (fact) ask any JW's and they will confirm my statements. This gentleman calling himself "scholar" is living a lie or he is not a JW or he does not believe their teachings. Worst he styles himself a scholar giving himself honor not allowed within the organization he claims to be a part of. Something smell like fish of religious hypocrisy.

No matter how much research scholar does if he is not directly assigned by GB of JW's they would refused to look at it. And he knows that is the truth and that is why he must come here undercover to editfy himself with people that don't know the workings or JW's or simply don't care anymore.

73

When DID the Jews return?

by Doug Mason in

the wts says that the key date in the jews return from babylon is tishri 1 537 bce.. the wts uses that date to arrive at its incorrect date of 607 bce for the destruction of jerusalem.

in turn, its 607 bce date is used to provide the date of october 1914 ce for christs parousia and the setting up of gods kingdom government.

the wts claims to be the sole representative upon earth of gods kingdom.. the date of the jews return is thus crucial to the watchtower societys (wts) existence and authority.

writetoknow

Double standards become the way of life among JW's. They are unable to accept they are not in a superior position on earth. To admit a misstake is to state our organization is not inspiried of God. Sadly with as much history there is to read of the bad results of such thinking caused the human race one would hope such blind faith would not exist today.

I once associated with a person that had been born into the witnesses his family had past generations of witnesses. He had a corporation he made all the discisions for that corporation. When misstakes where made he justified those misstake by using the name of the corporation that did such great works for God. He always spoke in a third party way, but was ruthless when making other take responsibility for their actions.

Most of Chirst teachings dealt with personal responsibility how we treat others and the least one. The start of training in the JW's ogranization is for the person within the org to take responsiblity for their actions. But the org. does not make misstakes and when they do it is called new light. Jehovah's Witnesses hold all other people on earth responsible for associating with religion that have false teachings. If they do not get out of them they will be destroyed.

Because witnesses associate with an organization that has modern day truth they are saved at the end. Thus, because their judgment is so unforgiving for other religious groups they have to be perfect no adjustments can be made if so then they would be considered like all man made organization having false teachings and some truth.

They have to be right in every argument it is a life and death issues. Sadly they spend their lives wrangling in their minds about every little issues. Many JW's have mental problems because of this. Their children become master liers and if one associates for very long they learn to live a lie because they cannot be honest with themselves or the brothers because they will be disfellowship.

If the heavy judgment they judge come upon them from within the org they will most often at least look at the facts. Once they see the fact most have the same hate and heavy judgment they have been trainned to have for the JW's org.

It is a life of double standards and one can stay with it if they keep the blinders on. Thus, the person arguing herein knows he shouldn't be on this site, but he can justify being here because he has taken a superior position over his brothers. Those brothers he would correct for being on this site. He must think his knowledge is superior to his brother or he believes he holds a superior position within the org.

The point is he believes everyone else on earth is lead by the devil an are wicked or mislead, it is not possible that someone else could have truth. Truth comes through one point on earth and that is Jehovah's Witnesses the faithful and discreet slave GB

Thus, more he argues his point the righter he is - it becomes and addiction that can't be stopped. If he stopped he would have nothing. If the witnesses found out he was on here he would be disfellowship and then possibly he would at least look at some fact.

Once again uses the tacts he has been trained to use from the JW's - live a lie because it not a lie I am superior and I alone can make these judgments. But disfellowship and hold others feet to the fire as wicked for the same actions.

73

When DID the Jews return?

by Doug Mason in

the wts says that the key date in the jews return from babylon is tishri 1 537 bce.. the wts uses that date to arrive at its incorrect date of 607 bce for the destruction of jerusalem.

in turn, its 607 bce date is used to provide the date of october 1914 ce for christs parousia and the setting up of gods kingdom government.

the wts claims to be the sole representative upon earth of gods kingdom.. the date of the jews return is thus crucial to the watchtower societys (wts) existence and authority.

writetoknow

These things teach, and exhort to these. If one teaches erratic notions and does not apply himself to sound words, those of our "Lord Jesus Christ", and to the teaching that is along the line of piety, he is conceit-ridden, not knowing anything, but infatuated about arguments and disputed technicalities, out of which come grudges, quarreling, vilification, base suspicions, frictions betwen men unsound in mind and bereft of the truth who suppose piety to be an economic resource.

For it is written "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discering I will discredit". What becomes of the philosopher? of the scholar? of a scientist? did not God make the world's wisdom foolish? For since in God's wisdom the world had not through wisdom known God, God was pleased to save believers throught the foolishness of the preaching message - since Jews ask for tokens and Greeks look to wisdom, but we preach a crucified Christ, to Jews a thing unmentionable, and to Gentiles foolishness, but to the called themselves, Jews and Greeks both, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God: Because what is foolish of God's is wiser then men, and what is weak of God's is stronger than men. For, brothers, look at your calling, that it is not a case of many who are wise in a mortal sense, many powerful, many arstocratic, but God chose the foolish parts of the world in order to shame the wise men, and God chose the weak parts of the world in order to shame the strong parts, and God chose the lowborn parts and the scorned parts, the nothings, in order to superpresence of God.

And from him you are something in Christ Jesus. and redemption, in order to have it as is written, "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."

Remind people of these things, admonishing them before God not to wrangle over technicalities to no useful purpose, upsetting the listeners. Make a point of presenting ourself to God tried and true, a worker with nothing to be ashamed of , keeping the straight line of the word of truth; but stand away from outpourings of unsanctified nonsense.

If I speak the languages of men and angels but do not have love, I turn into a gong sounding or a cymbal clashing; and if I have prophecy and know all secrets and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so as to move mountains, but do not have love I am nothing; and if I give all my possessions in charity, and if I give up my body in order to boast, but do not have love. I am none the better.

So keep watch, for you not know neither the day nor the hour (when the Son of Man will come).

But no one knows about the that day and hour; neither the angles in heaven, nor the Son; only the Father.

At that time the disciples came and ask Jesus, "Who really excels in the kingdom of the heaven?" Calling in a little child. He set it in the center and said, I assure you, unless you be converted and become as the little children, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of the heaven. Whoever, then humbles himself like this child, he excels in the kingdom of heaven, and whoever receives one such child in my name , receives Me. But whoever is an occasion for stumbling to one of these little ones that believe in Me, it were better for him to have a millstone hung around his neck and to be sunk in the depth of the sea.

As I urged you to wait on at Ephesus when I took my trip to Macedonia in order that you might instruct some people not to teach erratic notions nor devote attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give anybody more to fields for research than of attention to God's affairs in faith- but the object of the injunction is love, out of a pure heart and good conscience and unfeigned faith, things which some have failed to hit upon and have run off into futile talk, wanting to be teachers of the law when they have no sense either of the things they say or what it is they are being so positive about.

I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercessions thankgivings, be presented for all men; for emperors and all out superior, in order that we may lead a still and quiet life in all piety and propriety. This is good thing and a thing welcome to God our Savior, who wills that all men should be saved and come into awareness of truth. For there is one God, one mediator too between God and men, a man, Christ Jesu, he who gave himself as a ransom for everybody; the attestation when the right time came, for which I was appointed a herald and apostle, - I am telling the truth, not lying, - a teacher of the nations in faith an truth.

So I wish to have the men pray in every place, rasing godly hands without anger and argument.

Remind them to be submissive and obedient to governments and authorities, to be ready for every good work, to vilify nobody, to keep out of fights, to be reasonable and show gentleness towards all men. For we ourselves were once stupid, disobedient, drifters, in servitude to varied desires and pleasures, leading a life of viciousness and envy, odious, hating each other; but when kindness and goodwill came on form our savior God, not as the out come of deeds in righteousness that we did but in the way of mercy he saved us by the bath of rebirth and renovation by the Holy Spirit, which he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, in order that being justified by this grace we might become heirs with hope of eternal life.

The saying is a trustworthy one, and about these things I want you to be positive, in order that those who have believed God may take care to practice good works. These things are good and useful to men; but stand away for foolish arguments the tracings of genealogies and quarreling and fights over the law, for they are useless and futile. Have nothing more to do with a troublemaker after one and a second admoniton, knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning when is self-condemned.

So if they say to you 'here he is, in the wilderness' do not go out; 'here he is, in the closets' do not believe it.

So keep awake, because you do not know on what day your Master is coming. But be sure of this, that if the man of the house had know at what time of the night the thief was coming he would have kept awake and not allowed his house to be broken into. Accordingly be ready yourselves, because it will be at the moment when you are not thinking of it that the Son of Man comes.

These things I have written to you about those who are misleading you. And for your part, the anointment you received from him dwells in you, and you have no need that one should teach you; but as his anointment teaches you about everything, and is true and is not lie, and as he did teach you, dwell in him.

Step forward all of you that will stake enternal life on this teaching? Step forward all of you that will stake someone else life on this teaching?

This is more then a debate it is a teaching millions of people have judged nations and religions and people as being unworthy of everlasting life with God over. Thousands have been disfellowship for not believing this doctrine of men. Lives have been ruined and families destroyed over strong assertions.

34

For those who've settled on 'no contact' with their JW families . . .

by Madame Quixote in

for whatever reason.

do you question it sometimes and think you should try to "reach out" to them again?

i was this morning and then came across the thread above and was reminded why i need to stay away.. but, still, i read threads of people who have managed somehow, despite being d'f'ed or faded or d'aed and think i might try to be more understanding, supportive, reach out or something.. despite all the problems growing up in a fairly dysfunctional family, i still feel a deep attachment to them and hope against hope that they might come to their senses (if they ever had any to begin with) and get help and leave the cult of jehobo; and we might reconcile,etc., etc., blah blah blah dream dream dream.. i deeply wish for them all freedom and happiness and healing and feel so helpless to free them of their bonds and yet see so much possibility for it, if only they could be reached somehow.

writetoknow

Sadly most, not all of us that came into the org., came out of an abusive family. We thought we deserved to be treated badly. Moreover, people that have been abused seek strong guidelines to give them a sence of security.

So hey don't punish yourself that part of the program. But remember that blindness is so deep that unless someone turns on them from within org most people cannot think outside the box of the org. And remember further those that leave have a tuff time because they think the org had the truth. Truth is defined in action and action that are not loving kind and gentle are not from God.

We were never called to judge religion or people we called to show mercy and leave the Judgment to God. We spend the rest of our lives fighting against judging every little detail of life. So be patient and slowly things change and get better. My point is simple, perhaps if we all stood and were stronger and disfellowship them it would sober a few up.

Disfellowshiping is a powerful tool and when it used by a group people that already have security problems find themselve seeking the approval of the group. The same is true of children that grow up and continually seek the approval of a parent that have been abusive.

That is the deep hole; some of what a parent does is in our best interest and is good we confuse that with love. Many parent regret how they raised their children and would do thing differently if they could do it over. (that is because their children make them look at themselves and their conduct) The org has become parent to many homeless children - but they never regret the treatment of those children thats because of the great tool! The tool of taking away indiviaul responsibilty towards our fellowman and family. Bees and ants see the group - life is work and death is nothing personal. JW's believe that is honorable to be an bee or an ant the more the better. Life is of no value only the work and yet God say He will search endlessly to find a lost child.

No parent stops loving their child unless they have no natural affection - and from these turn away 2Tim 3: 1-7

28

Two Questions...

by AlphaOmega in

i need to draw on your collective jw knowledge here; i have two questions:.

1. if satan is supposed to be the ruler of this world and jesus' arrived invisibly in 1914 to rule the world, surely only one is true.. 2. the "knocking" documentary put the dubs on television, does that make them "teledubbies" ?.

ao.

writetoknow

It must be nice to have the power to determine how God inspects his faithful and discreet slave. It must be even nicer to put your own stamp of apporval on yourself.

The Christain bible wirters seem to think Christ had been given all authority in heaven and on earth after his resurrections. Don't confuse me with the facts!

Perhaps if that is true we have been living in the end times since Christ took his power and that's the reason every generation has thought they were the last.

And that the reason all true Christian have suffered since the time of Christ. I am all most certain the society can somehow make the blood of the not yet enlighten early Roman Christain invaild until the real inspection occures in 1919.

And isn't it amazing how all groups think they are the faithful and discreet slave that God has entrusted his belonging too. Then when their group is exposed and it is full of dead mens bones and children that have been molested etc.,etc. isn't that the judgment of Babylon the Great in the last days?

73

When DID the Jews return?

by Doug Mason in

the wts says that the key date in the jews return from babylon is tishri 1 537 bce.. the wts uses that date to arrive at its incorrect date of 607 bce for the destruction of jerusalem.

in turn, its 607 bce date is used to provide the date of october 1914 ce for christs parousia and the setting up of gods kingdom government.

the wts claims to be the sole representative upon earth of gods kingdom.. the date of the jews return is thus crucial to the watchtower societys (wts) existence and authority.

writetoknow

If the facts were correct we would be living in a new world order or be dead by now! No honest hearted person can look at the facts of the Watch Tower Society and not see the many adjustments to explain away "that generation"

None not one of the Christian writers concerned themselve with the return of Jews 607 date they live each day as the end was upon them. They did not know when the Lord would come they knew it would be as a thief and at hour they would least expect him to come.

Christ clearly stated no on would know the day or hour of his return but the Father. Any honest hearted person associated with the Watch Tower over the last 40-years knows the truth of this subject. If you judge other groups for their failing prophecies and then let yourself off by calling it new light and at the same time disfellowingship brothers and sisters not going along with false teachings that now have changed over and over again.

Then you are condenm by your own actions. It is one thing to be mislead but to knowing deny the truth when the facts are clear and persecute Gods children for not going along with false doctrine is a sin that far worst then those you disfellowship for not going along with society every changing doctrine.

This point regarding this date is not a nice little conversation it has ruined the lives of many faithful servant of God and if that is not enough to make you honestly look at the subject then shame on you.

34

For those who've settled on 'no contact' with their JW families . . .

by Madame Quixote in

for whatever reason.

do you question it sometimes and think you should try to "reach out" to them again?

i was this morning and then came across the thread above and was reminded why i need to stay away.. but, still, i read threads of people who have managed somehow, despite being d'f'ed or faded or d'aed and think i might try to be more understanding, supportive, reach out or something.. despite all the problems growing up in a fairly dysfunctional family, i still feel a deep attachment to them and hope against hope that they might come to their senses (if they ever had any to begin with) and get help and leave the cult of jehobo; and we might reconcile,etc., etc., blah blah blah dream dream dream.. i deeply wish for them all freedom and happiness and healing and feel so helpless to free them of their bonds and yet see so much possibility for it, if only they could be reached somehow.

writetoknow

Wow! You should read all these threads in a roll. The impression is powerless people looking for approval! Without the acceptance of family and JW's our lives are pointless? We all know witnesses are taught to think in black white evil and good or they couldn't be strong.

Disfellowship them let them see how sad and sick their actions are. They assume power over us by disfellowshipping. Nothing going to shake their world they have a group and the group says it all ok. So isn't it ok? That what Hilter followers thought until righteous people made them look at the dead bodies of millions of Jews. Their free of personal blame it can be past on by proxy right? Hey loyalty to the org and elders takes away any person responaiblity - right?

Wow! That body of elder better stand in for you during the judgment day you better hope it not indiviual judgment base on how you treat the least one.

Your are sick person that can't honestly examine your own faith and your willing to disfellowship some one for doing so. I disfellowship you until you can be open minded enough to honestly take some critism obout teachings that change yearly. Shame on you for asking others to question their faith and then you goose step like a mindless robot and refuse to think for yourself.

Shame on you for not having the respect and discency to questions the facts because the elders say the person is wrong - when enternal life is at stake. Shame on you for condemning and judging a person on second hand information. Even worldly people have more integrity then that.

Shame on your for not repenting when doctrinal changes have destroyed honest people lives. Shame on the people who cannot right that wrong over those doctrinal changes and help the people they have destroyed and slander. Shame on you for saying Babylon is blood guilty for the shame reasons.

Shame on you for wanting the rest of the world religions destroyed because of false teachings and you let yourself off because it was new light - shame on you!

You are a mislead mind control person that cannot understand the love of Christ and I am going to turn away from you because your mentallly disease. You have no natural affection for your own family or other people of faith you have a godly devotion but prove false to the power of Christ.

How can I with good conscience associate with people that would disfellowship Christ?

And why would you want these peoples approval and give them power over you for their approval shame on you!

22

..A Thought about Jesus,for Christians..

by OUTLAW in

..in watchtowerland..the watchtower bible and tract society=mediator to god..if thats true..what good is jesus??

?..none!..he has absolutlely "no use!

"..the wtb$ leads people to think they cannot find god without them!..where is jesus in all of this?

writetoknow

Christ stated to the Samaritan woman at the well that a time was coming that all true followers would worship God his Father in "spirit in truth". And the hour was coming that true worshippers would worship not in this mountain (Jerusalem) or that mountain representing (samaritan worship I believe). A rejection of earthly organizational arrangements because "truth and spirit" cannot be man made organizations.

The spirit would now dwell within his followers they were the new temple. The truth was more concernt with self awareness then doctrinal truth. That point is shown in the same exchange between Christ and the samaritan woman that she realized somethng was special in Chirst so he ask her to bring her husband and she said she did not have one and Chrsit responded that she had a number of husbands and the one she was with was not her husband. He reached for the truth of her spirit not doctrinal. This was further brought home by the point a Jewish men never talk to a samaritan let alone a woman.

Most of his teaching dealt with a person finding out who they are at heart (truth). Through forgiveness and God's spirit a person would be renewed into a new person. Becoming like Christ was not doctrinal it was real and was shown in love for others.

Christ stated that in the end day huge drag nets would be let down to gather people liked fish. Well, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the many organizations as harsh cruel drag nets gathering up people.

People will always wrangle over topics be it religion, politics, law, history, science that is our nature Christ came into the mist of people arguing over all sorts of problems mainly religion and each and every time some set themselves up as superior over others because of their beliefs Christ went to the heart. Because of that there was no putting him into a religious box.

Spirit cannot be contained in a box of religious beliefs - the spirit blows where it wants like the wind. That is, each problem for each person heart can have a different solution. But the solution will be correct if it follows love. Love was not weak or passive it was just the opposite try praying for religious fanitics after they beat you and hang you on whatever " forgive them father".

Yes the JW's recongize Jesus but they worship Jehovah the Jehovah mainly of the Old Testment which is about judging all actions against law. The do not believe in praying for other religions or for those they deem as not worthy of God's love.

So it can be surpizing for ex-JW's when they see for the first time Christ true message. When they realize the entire new covant was base on and enacted by forgiveness. And that gift is so great that it is call grace and cannot be earned through obeying the law perfectly of the organization.

If we spent our lives asking what is the right thing to do according to love then doing it - we would have doctrinal purity. If that was put too writing it certainly would become another organization. And those good works if they could be record the volumns would fill the world I suppose. I would further suggest Christ words would no longer be confusing.

22

..A Thought about Jesus,for Christians..

by OUTLAW in

..in watchtowerland..the watchtower bible and tract society=mediator to god..if thats true..what good is jesus??

?..none!..he has absolutlely "no use!

"..the wtb$ leads people to think they cannot find god without them!..where is jesus in all of this?

writetoknow

It is one of those teachings that seem to have logic, but remember logic is the first hidding place of a dishonest person.

Ok, here we go the teaching is based on JW's belief that there are two classes of people to be in God's kingdom. The anointed that rule with Christ during the 1000 years and the great crowd which come out of the great tribulation and are under the rule of Christ on earth and the 14400.

Now the anointed are the body of Christ and because Christ is the mediator between God and man the great crowd must go through the body of Christ which is part of Christ to have their sins removed during the 1000 rule of Christ.

At the end of the thousands years the Great Crowd will then be perfect and stand on their own before God no mediatorship will be needed at that time. Then Christ hands over the completely redeemed human race to his Father.

Now, some of the anointed make up the governing body - the pope on earh something like that.

From this teaching we have the mind control that exist within the org. of JW's. From this teaching most JW's have little knowledge of Christ personal role in their lives.

20

The GB is a cloaking device for the FDS

by cultswatter in

i spent my first 25 years in the jws and could never figure out who the fds was.

today it was bugging me - why can't i relate to the fds even though i now know it is nonsense, but even more important, why can't jws understand who the fds really is?.

let's look at some facts.

writetoknow

Well I personally associated with a number of the class called the FDS. The society at that time put a great distance beteen anyone of the anointed class and the governing body. Their belief was the collective body of anointed members on earth at any one time where the body of Christ and was the FDS. The GB represented that FDS on earth.

Those of the anointed among the JW where never ask about anything and were viewed with great distrust by the elders. If they tried to give any imputs to the GB it would have been viewed with great distrust and lable an apostate teaching

If one was of the anointed and lived at the headquarters then things were fine for the most part.. All those assuming the ranks of GB were hand picked and groomed over many years as any corporate office does. They wanted no disagreements. Generally the great crowd had no idea what it all meant and didn't care. And there was a power struggle going within the GB when other members were added as need.

The GB could not allow for younger members of the anointed class because of the 1914 time line. So they started grooming members of the GC to step in and take over the GB as they died off. At one time it would have been considered disloyal for a member of the GC to take a position of one of the anointed on the GB

It was never about using the FDS collectively as a body to gather information and feed it to others. It was about doctrine purity and goose stepping in that direction. In fact, most of those of the anointed class lived in fear of GB and the elders, I have to believe from personal experience that most of those of that class were disfellowship over the years. Which is realy sad because those that I knew personally were very spirtual people and loved God. And were in constant turmoil over the actions and teaching of the GB.

I used to say that JW's threw the light out of the organization .