Posts by theMadChristian

91

The Watchtower and Creation

by AlanF in

it struck me this past year, with respect to jw teachings about the timing of genesis 1, that even in things that really have no impact on what most jws think of as "core doctrine" the watchtower society sticks to its traditions over what the bible says.

this was again brought home in the september, 2006 awake!

17 between me and the sons of israel it is a sign to time indefinite, because in six days jehovah made the heavens and the earth and on the seventh day he rested and proceeded to refresh himself.

theMadChristian

alt THANK you, JM, for such a wonderful insight! The REAL problem in understanding it is the fact that we tend to try and read what we WANT to believe into it- and that just doesn't work too well! For example- all religions (2/3 exceptions) have taught the Immortal Soul for milennium. Believing that, and reading how "the soul that sinneth will die", causes INSTANT confusion! That was the amazing thing about the Truth as we call it; EVERYTHING in the Bible became clear- like when a person with poor eyesight puts on his glasses! Agape, the Mad JW

11

Is this for real?

by gspradling in

jw
friends

hello, a jw on aol posted this to support their view that jws are charitable.

dear gary, my reason for writing is to address the your newsletter regarding disaster relief.

you asked, "what should we do?

theMadChristian

Bwahahahahahahaha! Now why in the WORLD would we want to repair a Church- where they lie about God?

Anyhow- that general message IS true ( I was there as we rebuilt Kingdom Halls and homes ), and regardless of all the cheap shots- thousands of us took time off work (even losing jobs) to go down and help!

Buuuuuuuuuut, who here wants to think about the GOOD things concerning my Brotherhood?

alt the Mad JW

91

The Watchtower and Creation

by AlanF in

it struck me this past year, with respect to jw teachings about the timing of genesis 1, that even in things that really have no impact on what most jws think of as "core doctrine" the watchtower society sticks to its traditions over what the bible says.

this was again brought home in the september, 2006 awake!

17 between me and the sons of israel it is a sign to time indefinite, because in six days jehovah made the heavens and the earth and on the seventh day he rested and proceeded to refresh himself.

theMadChristian

True, but the word used in genesis is referenced ordinally, e.g. "first day", "second day", etc. To my knowledge, there are no examples in the scriptures of this sort of ordinal reference applying to anything but a literal day.

Morninn' Dave! It's a real pleasure reading your posting- you are thinking rather than being dogmatic! Consider this: Gen 2:4-These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the DAY that Jehovah God made the earth and the heavens,

~wy from an unused root meaning to be hot
Definition: day, time, year,day (as opposed to night),day (24 hour period) as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 1, as a division of time
a working day, a day's journey days, lifetime, time period (general)

>>To take that statement as 'proof' of God creating Heaven & Earth in a 24-hour day- even tho He could have if He wanted to- is absurd

Well, remember the book we're talking about here. The sun is portrayed as stopping in the sky long enough for [what's-his-name] to slaughter [whoever it was]. Balaam is depicted as having a conversation with a talking donkey. And the entire earth's population of animals is said to be descended from single pairs of various "kinds". You don't wanna go around labelling things "absurd" in this context, I don't think.

HOWEVER, while I think there's a good argument for the Bible writer having meant a literal 24-hour day, that isn't the point. The point is that in order for the earth to be billions of years old, and the days of creation to NOT encompass billions of years, you've got to pull the creation of the earth itself out of those creative days. This is the teaching of the Watchtower, and I believe, your view as well. "In the beginning..." was a starting point, where the earth and heavens were created. THEN the creative days kick off. Am I right so far?

The problem with the scriptures in Exodus is that they lump the creation of the earth and heavens INTO the creative days. So in order to believe the earth is billions of years old, you either have to find some way to explain how those Exodus scriptures don't really mean that, or you have to let the creative days themselves be billions of years old. Or you have to do some third thing I haven't thought of. :-)

Mad replies: The setting is the deciding factor! Whining, Complaining Israelites with little education (recently slaves), and he wanted them to understand the concept of a Day of Rest (Sabbath), and even encourage them to make it a DEFINITE practice by using God Himself as an example; wether 24-hours or 24 milennium (beyond their concept; that kind of math was not common knowledge)- the point was TAKING THE TIME TO FOCUS ON THEIR GOD- AND THE LIFE HE GAVE THEM. It WASN'T a discourse on Creation...as they are making it HERE! It reminds me of a Christian teenager who's offered drugs- and his mind is racing to find ways to justify taking them!

BTW - Why'd you change your login name? Just curious...

Mad reples: I think someone banned me; I couldn't log on anymore... I have no problem accepting the Days being 24 hours....EXCEPT there is nothing but the passionate reasonings of others to support it! ( In MY tiny little mind! ) alt

Agape, the Mad JW

30

HOW TO UNDERSTAND THE TRINITY and the DUAL NATURES OF CHRIST :-)

by FireNBandits in

i'm not a trinitarian, but i understand the doctrine...oh...as well as such a mysterious doctrine can be understood.

same with chalcedonian orthodoxy, the dual natures of christ.

so, i will herein give you my way of explaining the trinity, etc.. .

theMadChristian

Man- that's far more info than can be twisted from scripture! AND it's the farthest I've EVER seem the Imagination stretch to try and explain that fallacy!

Bravo!

alt

56

The Trinity ( arguement to end all arguments I hope )

by 5go in

i pretty much don't think much of christendom.

but why do christians insist on holding such an unholdable position with the trinity.. the bible i agree holds proof for both trinity and nontrinity positions.. i still don't get why that christians other than catholics would hold such an untenable position as god came down to earth but didn't, and he prayed ( talked ) to himself a lot.. .

i remember a comedy sketch were some kids were stumping a nun in catholic school with question on the trinity and the eurachrist..

theMadChristian

TRINITY

56

The Trinity ( arguement to end all arguments I hope )

by 5go in

i pretty much don't think much of christendom.

but why do christians insist on holding such an unholdable position with the trinity.. the bible i agree holds proof for both trinity and nontrinity positions.. i still don't get why that christians other than catholics would hold such an untenable position as god came down to earth but didn't, and he prayed ( talked ) to himself a lot.. .

i remember a comedy sketch were some kids were stumping a nun in catholic school with question on the trinity and the eurachrist..

theMadChristian

Trinity

91

The Watchtower and Creation

by AlanF in

it struck me this past year, with respect to jw teachings about the timing of genesis 1, that even in things that really have no impact on what most jws think of as "core doctrine" the watchtower society sticks to its traditions over what the bible says.

this was again brought home in the september, 2006 awake!

17 between me and the sons of israel it is a sign to time indefinite, because in six days jehovah made the heavens and the earth and on the seventh day he rested and proceeded to refresh himself.

theMadChristian

AA writes:"With respect, Mad, did you read the scriptures Alan cited from Exodus? You're a relatively free-thinking JW, Mad. You're not mentally bound to believe whatever the Watchtower spews. So what do YOU personally think? How do you reconcile a billions-year-old earth with the Exodus reference Alan cited?

Dave

Buuuuuuuuuut, people will usually believe only what they WANT to believe! Look at all the attempts to prove different beliefs about creation- instead of just listening to what the BIBLE says!

Agape,

the Mad JW

56

The Trinity ( arguement to end all arguments I hope )

by 5go in

i pretty much don't think much of christendom.

but why do christians insist on holding such an unholdable position with the trinity.. the bible i agree holds proof for both trinity and nontrinity positions.. i still don't get why that christians other than catholics would hold such an untenable position as god came down to earth but didn't, and he prayed ( talked ) to himself a lot.. .

i remember a comedy sketch were some kids were stumping a nun in catholic school with question on the trinity and the eurachrist..

theMadChristian

CoolerKing:Funny, I just had a conversation with two witnesses last week regarding the Trinity. First, I just want to mention that I am not offering any proof for the trinity or against it. But years ago when working in Field Service, I remember that someone gave me the simplest answer to how the trinity is possible.
Ok, we have a man named John Doe. John is ONE person. But he is also a SON to his parents, a FATHER to his children and a HUSBAND to his wife. All three distinctly different descriptions. John may talk one way to his parents, another way to his children and another way to his wife. This could almost be described as THREE separate personalities. But John is still just ONE person. I always remembered that conversation because I thought that this would be the best way to try to explain it to another that doesnt believe the 3 in 1 theory.

And as far as God holding on a conversation with himself, maybe I’m the only one who will admit it, but I know I’ve talked to myself at least more than once in my life!

24

"Mature" JW's READ THIS:

by Honesty in

"mature" jw's, what do you "believe" you are accomplishing by coming on this board?.

page 371 paragraph 22 of the june 15, 1967 watchtower magazine says, "in addition to all of this, a persons faith can be weakened by what he reads and takes into his mind, dwelling upon "higher criticism," relying on worldly philosophers.

it should be remembered that, when we are reading a book, the author of the book becomes ones teacher, and for this reason great care should be taken in selecting reading matter.

theMadChristian

You're doing a lousy job! Bwhahahahahahahahahahaha!

The Mad JW

91

The Watchtower and Creation

by AlanF in

it struck me this past year, with respect to jw teachings about the timing of genesis 1, that even in things that really have no impact on what most jws think of as "core doctrine" the watchtower society sticks to its traditions over what the bible says.

this was again brought home in the september, 2006 awake!

17 between me and the sons of israel it is a sign to time indefinite, because in six days jehovah made the heavens and the earth and on the seventh day he rested and proceeded to refresh himself.

theMadChristian

Thanks for asking! In Hebrew, the word translated "Day" covers the 24-hour, the generation, and a period of time. So I doubt the Early Jews who worshipped Yahweh at that time took it as a 24-hour day- but took it as a PATTERN that if God took a "Day/Period of Time" to rest, He was arranging the same for them! Remember- this was at a time when science was unknown. They had no concept of a spinning globe circling the sun, no concept of the Ecosystem- probably very little concept of what life was all about, since Jehovah was revealing it little at a time over the ages!

To take that statement as 'proof' of God creating Heaven & Earth in a 24-hour day- even tho He could have if He wanted to- is absurd, and just another example of "grasping at straws" in an attempt to prove a fallacy. Both Science and the Bible indicate that Jehovah took His time designing the Earth, then designing the plant & animal kingdom! Take, for example the Dinosaurs. (Did you read the articles in National Geographic a few years back, where some scientists claimed they might have been MAMMALS?) Did He- in just a few hours- create near endless varieties of all shapes & sizes, then wipe them all out- in such a brief period of time? Again, He could if He wanted to- the evidence indicates otherwise-including how He has CONTINUED to do things; namely, according to HIS timetable, where He takes His time- not OUR'S! After all- couldn't He have just BLINKED ("I Dream of Jeannie"), and INSTANTLY created all?

Agape,

the Mad JW

Earth Created in 6 24-hour days=