Posts by kurtbethel

24

Southern California

by Johnna in

anyone from so ca here... especially riverside or san diego co areas?

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Baby Milestones

by WTWizard in

i checked a web based company that sells witless supplies just to see how much money one could waste on their products.

true, the products can make life a bit easier on witlesses by organizing calls and service time.

they have service bags that cost around $50 and include return visit books, that close to 9" x 10".

kurtbethel

A little free association...

BTBM

Bronzed Theocratic Bowel Movement

What's with the gold and silver watchtower bling? I read where having the equivalent cross is like worshipping an idol. Is there a double standard at play here?

35

PROJECT JERICHO--What are the advantages of a mass exodus?

by uninformed in

i have seen lots of encouragement for us to 'unite' and accomplish something that would set back the wt society, but in such a diverse group as we are, it seems that even though we are together, we are alone.. has anyone thought of the possibility of 'semi' organizing a date certain for a bunch to abandon the organization?

kind of like the exodus, or someting along those line.

maybe a loosely organized letter writing campaign.

kurtbethel

As an outsider, never set foot in a Kingdom Haul, I look at this dispassionately. I see a major vulnerability in the matter of only the annointed partaking at the memorial.

Think about it. Letter writing and other tactics will be scattershot and easy to ignore. But the one thing that focuses attention on one day in the year is the memorial. The partakers are counted and the number gets published so anything happening at that event will get noticed. If everyone wanting change in the WT were to partake, along with Christians who are tired of being slandered, and even atheists who want to shake things up, then the numbers would swell and be counted. WT doctrine hinges on this number dwindling, so if it suddenly swells then the whole doctrine of the annointed and 1914 will be in a position to come unraveled.

It's all up to you.

54

Do Most Witnesses know about UN SCANDAL?

by Abandoned in

it seems to me that most witnesses still don't know about the un scandal.

since it has been such a useful tool in helping people see the truth about the lying duplicity of the watchtower, how can we get this message out to more in the organization?

kurtbethel

The JW who conducts the study with me did not know. When I mentioned it he said it was untrue. So I showed him the Guardian article and DPI letter. He insisted it was slander against the Watchtower, I said that if they had slandered the Watchtower then they would get some of their legions of lawyers and have a massive lawsuit against the news agency and UN, so when was the suit filed?

Then something strange happened. He started getting in a panic. He said if that were true then what of all the changes he made in his life. I discerned I had stumbled into something and not wanting to cause anguish I put the papers away and said that there was something more important involved here, that I will go along that the papers didn't exist, and that we never had this conversation. He calmed down and I changed the subject to sports, the weather, etc.

It was a strange experience running into such cognitive dissonance, and I am not an expert on counseling and psychology, so I did not want to push into that area blindly and cause harm.

50

I just stumped our PO!!!

by The Last Nephilim in

i have never seen this guy stumped on a bible topic or point before, but history was made today!!!

he and a soon-to-be elder were doing a shepherding call on my wife and i because we've missed weeks worth of meetings and had no service time for dec. he went through the usual lectures about how we're cutting off jehovah by missing meetings (because we all know god won't lift a finger for those who don't go to meetings, right?

) he gave some good illustrations- the guy really is a good teacher, it's just what he's teaching that's questionable.

kurtbethel

I use an interlinear that I got as a free download from here:

http://apostolicbible.com/

When my JW is over for our study and I want to clarify or get depth about some WT teaching, I suggest we see how it was written in the original Greek and look at the interlinear. It is often interesting and enlightening. One recent finding was the "sacred secret", "mystery", "musterion" passage and what it meant.

Maybe I can get that purple interlinear on eBay.

60

JW IQ's. Below average? (Includes SM anecdote.)

by Open mind in

are dub bulbs just a little dimmer than the general population?

here's a little highlight from this week's local service meeting that prompts my question.. it's the annual, 20 minute, robotic hand-pumping session conducted by the secretary trying to get everyone all hyped/guilted up for this summer's district convention.

anyway, towards the end of the q&a, there's a paragraph that talks about offering a ride to the elderly/infirm ones in your congo.

kurtbethel

From my experience, it would appear that there is a low IQ, in that they can not read a simple narrative and learn what is being told.

An example is I was talking about the Memorial to my JW during our study and learned how most people do not partake. I asked for some evidence from the Bible where Jesus told some people to partake and others not to. He could provide none. He started to tell me a story about Judas leaving before taking bread and wine. I was suprised to hear this, since I never saw a Bible that told it that way. So of course we read through the narratives in each book that had it and I graphed out the sequence of events on paper. Judas very clearly leaves after partaking. He insisted that Juday left before. I said, look right here Judas is partaking, and look at this later verse here, he leaves. The JW insisted that Judas left before.

At this point I was thinking you would have to be retarded to be a JW. If you can not follow a simple sequence of events and discern what is happening you must have some faulty brain wiring. I saw the same thing happen when we were reading Revelation chapter 7.

Since then I have come to realize that with some people, and most people to some degree, that magical thinking can overcome rational thought. So I would not say conclusively that JWs have a lower IQ, but I think that if you have a tendency for magical irrational thinking then you are more likely to be snared by the WT racket.

5

Where is the proof?

by 4mylove in

where is the proof that they are god's chosen faith?!

that just sounds pomp*ass*!

sorry so many questions, i'm seeing my inlaws this weekend and need a little reinforcements!

kurtbethel

This is something I have not figured out. My study JW tells me how he has come to trust the FDS and I should too. He cites Matthew 24. I point out that it is Jesus asking who is that faithful slave, but that does not demonstrate the the WT is who he is talking about, and I would like to see some evidence that it is. He has a Watchtower article that insists that it is the FDS, cite Micah and other Bible passages. We look them up. They all seem not relevent, or inconclusive about the WT being identified in them.

The article mentions Jesus inspecting and appointing the FDS in 1918. I ask then if Jesus did that he must have been okay with the cross and crown with UN type laurels, Christmas celebration, and all the other things that were acceptable then in WT life. Overall, the case for the WT being the FDS seems to be circular reasoning. No wonder it tales nearly 5000 hours to get these stories to make sense and get baptized!

One thing, when he came on Christmas day, the subject of the FDS came up and we turned to Matthew. I read a little further down and mentioned the evil slave. I said that if an organization laid heavy burdens on people, had people in it who raped children and then covered for it, and had close associations with worldly governments, then it would be the evil slave. Right? He agreed. I said I would not want any part of that kind of organization.

I enjoy my weekly Bible studies, and want him to come back as long as he likes.

32

Help reform the crumbling tower with your bright ideas

by JH in

lets say that the watchtower approached you to help them be more successful, so that more people join and be happier jw's.. what would you suggest?.

kurtbethel

A possible scenario, in 50 years or so, is sell off WT assets and build spacecraft to go to another star system. They can settle on a new world to remake into a paradise Earth with no Satan or worldly people to blame things on. It is all on the settlers, so they would truly have a chance to prove the merit of a theocratic system.

The GB could cobble together some explanation about how it is fulfilling Revelation and Daniel and some such stories. They are adept at that sort of stuff.

Plus, with a new sun in the sky there would truly be "new light"!

34

Reading between the lines in the January 2008 "Our Kingdom Ministry"

by TooBad TooSad in

i like to read the km to see what the wtbts is saying, and then to think about what they really mean.. information appears in the km when problem need to be addressed in the organization.

the article on.

the front page "make the most of your time in the ministry" was insightful to me.

kurtbethel

NOW I know why JWs are getting rare at the doorstep.

I have one that has me as a "study" each week, for over a year. If I didn't have him then it might be a couple years before I get another one to learn Bible wisdom from, so I am trying to keep him as long as possible.

All this time I thought it was a joyful experience to go out and witness to the po'buckers and now I realize you people like it as much as a root canal.

12

somebody told me......

by grewupJWnoselfesteem78-95 in

somebody told me that when jesus cam back in 1914 he shaved his beard out of respect for the organisation can any current jw's confirm this ????

?

kurtbethel

My favorite is the "DC Comics Jesus" who is a dead ringer for Superman.

Makes sense.

Superman came to Earth, sent by his heaveanly father Jor-El. "El" as in Eloi or Elohim. He has mighty powers and saves mankind.

A little unsnared bird told me there will be more things on that site in the future. Someone has a collection of every Watchtower since 1879 and most of the books, and is diligently studying them for all their light and wisdom. Stay tuned.