still_in74

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Posts by still_in74

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  43

  #4 Talk on Tues Sept 25 - Blood

  by still_in74 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hey all, i have to give a #4 talk on tuesday.

  topic:.

  "why true christians do not accept blood transfusions".

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  still_in74

  Sounds like you're having a crisis of conscience. Have you read that book yet?

  Yes, up to page 321. That is when my wife found it and threw it out!
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  24

  Sorry WTS - Higher Ed More Important Than Ever!

  by Seeker4 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i'm working on an article tonight from an interview i did last week with jane sanders, the president of burlington college and the wife of us senator bernie sanders.

  i was thinking of the wts's comments this summer at the dc where they really bad mouthed the value of a college education.. this is what jane sanders said:.

  "the cost of education is very high, and we are one of the only industrialized nations in the world that doesnt give some kind of strong support to higher education, that considers that that is a necessity.

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  still_in74

  It used to be that higher education wasn’t a necessity, it is now. You don’t get anywhere now without at least a BA."

  I see the truth to this more now in my 30's than ever before. I have struggled for years developing my vocational skills to get to the point I am today and I struggle every week to keep enough money in my account.
  I dont waste money, I keep a close watch on all my bills, I dont run up debt. I micro manage my money and I still struggle and while I dont make killer money, I am significantly above the Canadian average wage (believe it or not it is only $32k/year!) at $60K+/year. Plus my wife's income on top of mine and I still scape by. If you live in Toronto/Montreal/Vancouver $60K is poverty!
  I have family that have done the 1 and 2 year college programs and are now working full-time to earn a whopping 20-30K/year!

  How can anyone even expect maintain a "decent" std of living and save for retirement without at a minimum household income of $100K/year??And at that rate, were not talking BIG vacations and German cars, were talking Cuba and Hyundai's!

  I used to say to Elders in my KH when the big crunch on shift work was happening, that for so many years the WTS discouraged secular education and therefore uneducated JW's worked in factories on shift work..... now shift workers are being condemned for missing meetings due to shift work now that secular education is "socially" acceptable. They are working shift work BECAUSE THEY ARE UNEDUCATED!

  They had to agree that these had been put in this position by the WTS in the first place.
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  43

  #4 Talk on Tues Sept 25 - Blood

  by still_in74 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hey all, i have to give a #4 talk on tuesday.

  topic:.

  "why true christians do not accept blood transfusions".

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  still_in74

  Hey all, I have to give a #4 talk on Tuesday. Topic:

  "Why True Christians Do Not Accept Blood Transfusions"

  So anyway, I dont really want to give this talk and I especially dont want to write it! Any suggestions? I am wondering how far to push the envelope on the history of blood in the org or the recent fractioning changes.

  In fact, if someone wants to write this for me and post it here I will print it off and give it on Tuesday... now I am sure there are those of you that cannot resist such an offer!!!

  BTW, I am totally serious about this!!!
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  21

  Revelation weekly Book study review

  by still_in74 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  oompa said: still_in74 you have so much passion for truth at climax study that i demand that you post your observations post bookstudy every week!

  so when i comment i can say "oh yes, the issue of government was a burning issue of the day because it says so right here in the paragraph, so thats what this prophecy in revelation means!).

  there's what the falling star means !

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  still_in74

  *** The WATCHTOWER 1924 September 1 pp.262-263 ***

  INDICTMENT

  We, the International Bible Students, in convention assembled, declare our unqualified allegiance to Christ, who is now present and setting up his kingdom, and to that kingdom.

  We believe that every consecrated child of God is an ambassador for Christ and is duty-bound to give a faithful and true witness on behalf of his kingdom. As ambassadors for Christ, and without assuming any self-righteousness, we believe and hold that God has commissioned us to “proclaim the day of vengeance of our God and to comfort all that mourn. ” - Isaiah 61:2.

  We believe and hold that it is God’s due time for his displeasure to be expressed against wicked systems that have blinded the people to the truth and thereby deprived them of peace and hope; and to the end that the people might know the truth and receive some comfort for future blessings we present this indictment, based upon the Word of God, and point to the divine plan as the remedy for man’s complete relief:

  We present and charge that Satan formed a conspiracy for the purpose of keeping the peoples in ignorance of God’s provision for blessing them with life, liberty and happiness; and that others, to wit, unfaithful preachers, conscienceless profiteers, and unscrupulous politicians, have entered into said conspiracy, either willingly orunwillingly;

  That unfaithful preachers have formed themselves into ecclesiastical systems, consisting of councils, synods, presbyteries, associations, etc.., and have designated themselves therein as popes, cardinals, bishops, doctors of divinity, pastors, shepherds, reverends, etc.., and elected themselves to such offices, which aggregation is herein designated as “the clergy”; and that these have willingly madecommercial giants and professional politicians the principal ones of their flocks.

  We present and charge that the clergy have yielded to the temptations presented to them by Satan and, contrary to God’s Word, have joined in said conspiracy, and in furtherance thereof have committed the overt acts as follows, to wit

  (1) That they have used their spiritual powers, enjoyed by reason of their position, to gratify their own selfish desires by feeding and exalting themselves and failing and refusing to feed or teach the people God’s Word of truth ;

  (2) That loving the glory of this world, and desiring to shine before men and have the approval of men (Luke 4:8; James 4:4; 1 John 2:15) they have clothed themselves in gaudy apparel, decked themselves with jewels, and have assumed a form of godliness while denying God’s Word and the power thereof ;

  (3) That they have failed and refused to preach to the people the message of Messiah’s kingdom and to point them to the evidences relating to his second coming; and being unwilling to await the Lord’s due time to set up his kingdom and being ambitious to appear wise and great, they have, together with their coconspirators, claimed the ability to set up God’s kingdom on earth without God, and have endorsed the League of Nations and declared it to be “the political expression of God’s kingdom on earth”, thereby breaking their allegiance to the Lord Jesus Christ and declaring their allegiance to the devil, the god of evil ; and to this end they have advocated and sanctified war,-turned their church edifices into recruiting stations,acted as recruiting officers for pay, and preached men into the trenches, there to suffer and die; and when the Lord presented to them the clear and indisputable proof that the old world has ended and that his kingdom is at hand, they have scoffed at and rejected the testimony, persecuted, arrested and caused the imprisonment ofwitnesses for the Lord.

  DOCTRINES

  We further present and charge that the clergy as a class have constituted themselves the fountain of doctrines which, in the furtherance of said conspiracy, they have sent forth to the people, claiming such doctrines to be the teachings of God’s Word, well knowing the same to be untrue, in this, to wit

  (1) That they falsely claim to be the divinely appointed successors to the inspired apostles of Jesus Christ; whereas the Scriptures clearly show that there are no successors to the Lord’s apostles;

  (2) That they claim the sole right to interpret the Scriptures, and that therefore they alone know what the people should believe; and by this means they have kept the people in ignorance of the Bible, and now in this time of increased knowledge and much reading, when the people might read and understand, these self-constituted “successors to the apostles” discourage the people from reading the Bible andBible literature, deny the inspiration of the Scriptures, teach evolution, and by these means turn the minds of the people away from God and his Word of truth ;

  (3) That they have taught and teach the divine right of kings to rule the peoples, claiming such rule to be the kingdom of God on earth; they hold that they and the principal of their flocks are commissioned of God to direct the policy and course of the nations, and that if the people do not submissively concur in such policies then the people are unpatriotic or disloyal;

  (4) That they are the authors of the unreasonable and false doctrine of the trinity, by which they claim and tench that Jehovah, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are three persons in one, which fallacy they admit cannot be understood nor explained; that this false doctrine has blinded the people to the true meaning of the great ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ, through which men can be saved;

  (5) That they teach and have taught the false doctrine of human immortality ; that is to say, that all men are created immortal souls, which cannot die; which doctrine they well know to be false, for it is based exclusively upon the statement of Satan, which statement Jesus declares to be a great lie (Genesis 3 : 1-6; John 8 : 44) ;

  (6) That they preach and teach the doctrine of eternal torment; that is to say, that the penalty for sin is conscious torment in hell. eternal in duration; whereas they know that the Bible teaches that the wages of sin is death ; that bell is the state of death or the tomb ; that the dead are unconscious until the resurrection, and that the ransom sacrifice is provided that all in due time may have an opportunity to believe and obey the Lord and live, while the wilfully wicked are to be punishedwith an everlasting destruction;

  (7) That they deny the right of the Lord to establish his kingdom on earth, well knowing that Jesus taught that he would come again at the end of the world, and that the fact of that time would be made known by the nations of Christendom engaging in a world war, quickly followed by famine, pestilence, revolutions, the return of God’s favor to the Jews, distress and perplexity of the nations; and that during such time the God of heaven would set up his kingdom, which will stand forever (Daniel 2:44) ; that ignoring and refusing to consider these plain truths and evidences, they have willingly gone on in darkness, together with their allies, profiteers and politicians, in an attempt to set up a world power for the purpose of ruling and keeping the people in subjection ; all of which is contrary to the Word of Godand against his dignity and good name.

  The doctrines taught by the clergy, and their course of action herein stated are admitted; and upon the undisputed facts and upon the law of God’s Word they stand confessedly guilty before God and in the eyes of the World upon every charge in this indictment.

  Upon the authority of the prophecy of God’s Word now being fulfilled, we declare that this is the day of God’s wrath upon Christendom ; and that he stands in the midst of the mighty and controlling factors of the world, to wit, the clergy and the principal of their flocks, to judge and to express his righteous indignation against them and their unrighteous systems and doctrines.

  We further declare that the only hope for the peace and happiness of the peoples of earth is Messiah’s kingdom, for which Jesus taught his followers to pray.

  Therefore we call upon the peoples and nations of earth to witness that the statements here made are true; and in order that the people might, in this time of perplexity and distress, have hope and comfort, we urge upon them the prayerful and diligent study of the Bible, that they might learn therefrom that God through Christ and his kingdom has a complete and adequate plan for the blessing of mankind uponearth with peace and prosperity, liberty, happiness and eternal life, and that his kingdom is at hand.
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  21

  Revelation weekly Book study review

  by still_in74 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  oompa said: still_in74 you have so much passion for truth at climax study that i demand that you post your observations post bookstudy every week!

  so when i comment i can say "oh yes, the issue of government was a burning issue of the day because it says so right here in the paragraph, so thats what this prophecy in revelation means!).

  there's what the falling star means !

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  still_in74

  Oompa said: Still_in74 you have so much passion for truth at Climax study that I DEMAND that you post your observations post bookstudy every week!

  read my last post on the rev book http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/141196/2530958/post.ashx#2530958

  This goes into detail about Rutherford and 1919 and the 144k and the sealing and the 30 min of silence and the prayers and the killing and the oy vay rivem clavin!! (the nerd scientist from Simpsons impersonation - sorry, couldnt resist!)

  As for my rant about the seven trumpet blasts it is Chapter 21 of the book. This is a review of the Sept 10-14 book study in Revelation

  Chapter 21

  Jehovah’s Plagues on Christendom

  10

  John goes on to say: "And the seven angels with the seven trumpets prepared to blow them."(Revelation8:6)What does the blowing of those trumpets mean? In the days of Israel, trumpet blasts were used to signal important days or noteworthy events. (Leviticus 23:24; 2 Kings 11:14) Similarly, the blasts of the trumpets that John is to hear will call attention to matters of life-and-death importance.

  11

  As the angels got ready to blow those trumpets, no doubt they were also giving direction to a preparatory work on earth. From 1919 to 1922, the revitalized John class was busy in reorganizing the public ministry and building up publishing facilities. In 1919 the magazine TheGoldenAge, known today as Awake!, had been brought forth as "A Journal of Fact, Hope, and Conviction"—a trumpetlike instrument that would play a key role in exposing false religion’s political involvements.

  13

  As we shall see, when the first four trumpets are blown, plagues are inflicted on "a third" of the earth, of the sea, of the rivers and fountains of waters, and of the earth’s sources of light. (Revelation 8:7-12) A third is a considerable part of something but not the whole. (Compare Isaiah 19:24; Ezekiel 5:2; Zechariah 13:8, 9.) So which "third" would be most deserving of these plagues? The vast majority of mankind has been blinded and corrupted by Satan and his seed. (Genesis 3:15; 2 Corinthians 4:4) The situation is as described by David: "They have all turned aside, they are all alike corrupt; there is no one doing good, not even one." (Psalm 14:3) Yes, the whole of mankind is in danger of receiving an adverse judgment. But one section thereof is particularly guilty. One part—"a third"—should have known better! What is that "third"?

  14

  It is Christendom! In the 1920’s, her realm embraced about one third of mankind.
  (------------------------------------------------------------------------------------WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE? - UNSUBSTANTIATED HERESAY)
  Her religion is the fruit of the great apostasy from true Christianity—the apostasy that Jesus and his disciples foretold. (Matthew 13:24-30; Acts 20:29, 30; 2 Thessalonians 2:3; 2 Peter 2:1-3) The clergy of Christendom claim to be in God’s temple and have represented themselves as teachers of Christianity. But their doctrines are far removed from Bible truth, and they continually bring God’s name into disrepute. Aptly represented by the symbolic third, Christendom receives potent, plaguing messages from Jehovah. That third of mankind merits no divine favor whatsoever!

  15

  In line with there being a sequence of trumpet blasts, special resolutions were featured at seven conventions from 1922 to 1928.
  (------------------------------------------------------------------------MAJOR LAST DAYS EVENTS PROPHECIED THOUSANDS OF YEARS IN ADVANCE CLIMAX AS 50,000,000 TRACTS THAT NOBODY REMEMBERS AND WENT INTO 50,000,000 GARBAGE CANS)But the trumpeting has not been confined to those years. The powerful exposing of Christendom’s wicked ways has been continuous, ongoing, as the Lord’s day progresses. Jehovah’s judgments must be proclaimed universally, to all nations, despite international hatred and persecutions. Only then does the end of Satan’s system come. (Mark 13:10, 13) Happily, the great crowd has now added its voice to that of the John class in making those thunderous pronouncements of worldwide importance.A Third of the Earth Burned Up

  16

  Reporting on the angels, John writes: "And the first one blew his trumpet. And there occurred a hail and fire mingled with blood, and it was hurled to the earth; and a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees was burned up, and all the green vegetation was burned up."(Revelation8:7) This is similar to the seventh plague on Egypt, but what does it mean for our time?—Exodus 9:24.

  17

  In the Bible, the word "earth" often refers to mankind. (Genesis 11:1; Psalm 96:1) Since the second plague is on the sea, which also has to do with mankind, "the earth" must refer to the seemingly stable human society that Satan has built up and that is due to be destroyed. (2 Peter 3:7; Revelation 21:1) The plague scenario reveals that Christendom’s third of the earth is scorched by the searing heat of Jehovah’s disapproval. Her prominent ones—standing like trees in the midst of her—are burned up by the proclaiming of Jehovah’s adverse judgment. All her hundreds of millions of church members, if they continue to support Christendom’s religion, become like scorched blades of grass, spiritually wilted in God’s eyes.—Compare Psalm 37:1, 2.

  18

  How is this judgment message delivered? Generally, not by the world’s news media, which are part of the world and often reproachful of God’s "slave." (Matthew 24:45) It was proclaimed in a notable way at the second historic gathering of God’s people at Cedar Point, Ohio, September 10, 1922. These unanimously and enthusiastically adopted a resolution entitled "A Challenge to World Leaders." In outspoken terms, it put the modern-day symbolic earth on notice, as follows: "We therefore call upon the nations of earth, their rulers and leaders, and upon all the clergymen of all the denominational churches of earth, their followers and allies, big business and big politicians, to bring forth their proof in justification of the position taken by them that they can establish peace and prosperity on earth and bring happiness to the people; and their failing in this, we call upon them to give ear to the testimony that we offer as witnesses for the Lord, and then let them say whether or not our testimony is true."

  20

  Through resolutions, tracts, booklets, books, magazines, and discourses, this and later proclamations were trumpeted forth by means of the congregation of anointed Christians. The first trumpet blast resulted in Christendom’s being beaten as with the hardened water of a pounding hail.
  (WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE? WHERE ARE THE STATS? - UNSUBSTANTIATED HERESAY - IF THEY WERE BEATEN UP SO BAD THEN WHY IS THERE NO RECORD OF ANYTHING OUTSIDE OF WTS? WHY DOES NO ONE REMEMBER?)
  
  Her bloodguilt, due to her share in the wars of the 20th century, has been laid bare, and she has been shown to be deserving of the fiery expression of Jehovah’s wrath. The John class, with later support from the great crowd, has continued to echo the first trumpet blast, drawing attention to Jehovah’s view of Christendom, as being fit for destruction.—Revelation 7:9, 15.Like a Burning Mountain

  21

  "And the second angel blew his trumpet. And something like a great mountain burning with fire was hurled into the sea. And a third of these became blood; and a third of the creatures that are in these a which have souls died, and a third of the boats were wrecked."(Revelation8:8,9) What does this frightful scene picture?

  22

  We may best understand it against the background of the convention of Jehovah’s people held in Los Angeles, California, U.S.A., on August 18-26, 1923. The featured Saturday afternoon talk by J. F. Rutherford was on the topic "Sheep and Goats." The "sheep" were clearly identified as those righteously disposed persons who would inherit the earthly realm of God’s Kingdom. A resolution that followed drew attention to the hypocrisy of "apostate clergymen and ‘the principal of their flocks,’ who are worldly men of strong financial and political influence." It called on the "multitude of the peace and order loving ones in the denominational churches . . . to withdraw themselves from the unrighteous ecclesiastical systems designated by the Lord as ‘Babylon’" and to ready themselves "to receive the blessings of God’s kingdom."

  23

  Doubtless, this resolution came as a result of the sounding of the second trumpet. Those who would in due course respond to that message would separate from those described by Isaiah in these words: "But the wicked are like the sea that is being tossed, when it is unable to calm down, the waters of which keep tossing up seaweed and mire." (Isaiah 57:20; 17:12, 13) Thus, "the sea" well pictures restless, unsettled, and rebellious humanity that churns up unrest and revolution. (Compare Revelation 13:1.) The time will come when that "sea" will be no more. (Revelation 21:1) Meantime, with the blast of the second trumpet, Jehovah pronounces judgment against a third of it—the unruly part that is in the realm of Christendom herself.

  24

  A great mountainlike mass burning with fire is hurled into this "sea." In the Bible, mountains very often symbolize governments. For example, God’s Kingdom is portrayed as a mountain. (Daniel 2:35, 44) Ruinous Babylon became a "burnt-out mountain." (Jeremiah 51:25) But the mountainous mass that John sees is still burning.
  
  Its being hurled into the sea well represents how, during and after the first world war, the question of government became a burning issue among mankind, especially in the lands of Christendom.
  
  (WHAT??? GOVERNMENT WAS A 'BURNING ISSUE'?? WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT MEAN??? SO I GUESS IF YOU SAY SOMETHING THEN ITS TRUE?? SO WHEN I COMMENT I CAN SAY "OH YES, THE ISSUE OF GOVERNMENT WAS A BURNING ISSUE OF THE DAY BECAUSE IT SAYS SO RIGHT HERE IN THE PARAGRAPH, SO THATS WHAT THIS PROPHECY IN REVELATION MEANS!)
  
  In Italy, Mussolini introduced Fascism. Germany embraced Hitler’s Nazism, while other countries tried different forms of socialism. A radical change occurred in Russia, where the Bolshevik revolution produced the first Communist state, with the result that religious leaders of Christendom lost power and influence in what was formerly one of their strongholds.

  25

  The Fascist and Nazi experiments were snuffed out by the second world war, but government continued to be a fiery issue, and the human sea continued to churn and throw up new revolutionary governments. In the decades following 1945, these were installed in many places, such as China, Vietnam, Cuba, and Nicaragua. In Greece an experiment in military dictatorship failed. In Kampuchea (Cambodia) an excursion into fundamentalist Communism resulted in a reported two million and more deaths.

  26

  That "mountain burning with fire" continued to make waves in the sea of mankind.Struggles over government have been reported in Africa, the Americas, Asia, and the Pacific islands. Many of these struggles have taken place in lands of Christendom or where Christendom’s missionaries have become activists. (------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------THIS IS PROOF?????)
  Roman Catholic priests even joined up with and fought as members of Communist guerrilla bands. At the same time, Protestant evangelical groups worked in Central America to counter what they called the Communists’ "vicious and relentless thirst for power." But none of these convulsions in the sea of mankind have brought peace and security.—Compare Isaiah 25:10-12; 1 Thessalonians 5:3.

  27

  The second trumpet blast reveals that those of mankind who got involved in revolutionary conflicts over government rather than submit to God’s Kingdom are bloodguilty. Particularly Christendom’s "third of the sea" has become as blood. All living things therein are dead in God’s eyes. None of the radical organizations floating like boats in that third of the sea can avoid ultimate shipwreck .
  (----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------OH OF COURSE!!! EARTHLY RADICAL ORG'S ARE BOATS IN PROPHECY! OF COURSE! WHY DIDNT I THINK OF THAT?? IT ALL MAKES SO MUCH SENSE NOW!! I MEAN JUST LOOK AT ALL THE SCRIPTURES IN THIS PARAGRAPH TO SUBSTANTIATE AND SUPPORT SUCH A STATEMENT!!)How happy we are that millions of sheeplike people have now heeded the trumpetlike call to separate from those who are still wallowing in the narrow nationalism and bloodguilt of that sea!
  A Star Falls From Heaven

  28

  "And the third angel blew his trumpet. And a great star burning as a lamp fell from heaven, and it fell upon a third of the rivers and upon the fountains of waters. And the name of the star is called Wormwood. And a third of the waters turned into wormwood, and many of the men died from the waters,because these had been made bitter."(Revelation8:10,11) Once again, other parts of the Bible help us to see how this scripture applies in the Lord’s day.

  29 We have already met the symbolism of a star in Jesus’ messages to the seven congregations, in which the seven stars symbolize the elders in the congregations. (Revelation 1:20) Anointed "stars," along with all others of the anointed, inhabit heavenly places in a spiritual sense from the time that they are sealed with the holy spirit as a token of their heavenly inheritance. (Ephesians 2:6, 7) However, the apostle Paul warned that from among such starlike ones would come apostates, sectarians, who would mislead the flock. (Acts 20:29, 30) Such unfaithfulness would result in a great apostasy, and these fallen elders would come to make up a composite man of lawlessness that would elevate himself to a godlike position among mankind. (2 Thessalonians 2:3, 4) Paul’s warnings were fulfilled when the clergy of Christendom appeared on the world scene. This group is well represented by the symbol of "a great star burning as a lamp."

  30 John sees this particular star falling from heaven. How? The experiences of an ancient king help us to understand. Speaking to the king of Babylon, Isaiah said: "O how you have fallen from heaven, you shining one, son of the dawn! How you have been cut down to the earth, you who were disabling the nations!" (Isaiah 14:12) This prophecy was fulfilled when Babylon was overthrown by the armies of Cyrus, and its king made an abrupt descent from world rulership to shameful defeat. Thus, a fall from heaven can refer to losing a high position and falling into ignominy.(-------------------------------------------------THERE YOU GO! THERE'S WHAT THE FALLING STAR MEANS ! HOW EASY WAS THAT???)

  31 When the clergy of Christendom apostatized from true Christianity, they fell from the lofty "heavenly" position described by Paul at Ephesians 2:6, 7. Instead of offering fresh waters of truth, they served up "wormwood," bitter lies such as hellfire, purgatory, the Trinity, and predestination; also, they led the nations into war, failing to build them up as moral servants of God. The result? Spiritual poisoning of those who believed the lies. Their case was similar to that of the unfaithful Israelites of Jeremiah’s day, to whom Jehovah said: "Here I am making them eat wormwood, and I will give them poisoned water to drink. For from the prophets of Jerusalem apostasy has gone forth to all the land."—Jeremiah 9:15; 23:15.

  32 This fall from the spiritual heavens became apparent in the year 1919when, rather than Christendom’s clergy, the small remnant of anointed Christians was appointed over the Kingdom interests. (Matthew 24:45-47) And from 1922 that fall was dramatized when this group of Christians renewed their campaign of frankly exposing the failings of the clergy of Christendom.

  33 Outstanding in this connection was the proclamation made at what The Golden Age magazine described as "the greatest convention of Bible Students held during the ages." This convention assembled in Columbus, Ohio, July 20-27, 1924. No doubt at the direction of the angel that sounded the third trumpet, a forceful resolution was there adopted and later 50 million copies were distributed as a tract. It was published under the title Ecclesiastics Indicted. A subheading presented the issue: "The Seed of Promise Versus the Seed of the Serpent." The Indictment itself roundly exposed Christendom’s clergy on matters such as their taking of high-sounding religious titles, their making commercial giants and professional politicians the principal ones of their flocks, their desiring to shine before men, and their refusing to preach to the people the message of Messiah’s Kingdom. It emphasized that every dedicated Christian is commissioned by God to proclaim "the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn."—Isaiah 61:2, KJ.

  34 Since the third angel started to blow his trumpet, the clergy’s position of dominance among mankind has been slipping until, in this day and age, very few of them retain the godlike powers they enjoyed in former centuries. Because of the preaching of Jehovah’s Witnesses, great numbers of people have come to realize that many doctrines taught by the clergy are spiritual poison—"wormwood." Furthermore, the clergy’s power in northern Europe is almost spent, while in some other lands, the government strictly curtails their influence. In Catholic parts of Europe and in the Americas, the clergy’s scandalous behavior in financial, political, and moral affairs has sullied their reputation. From now on, their position can only get worse, since soon they will suffer the same fate as all other false religionists.—Revelation 18:21; 19:2.

  35 Jehovah’s plaguing of Christendom is not yet finished. Consider what happens after the fourth trumpet blast.

  I lieterally shake my head in amazement during these studies. I cant even find fluff to comment about that would keep me from appearing as though I believe this. I will continue on these reviews later this week as we go into the Fourth Trumpet Blast!! -
  this was when Rutherfords 16 cyl caddy backfired while pulling up to a canadian liquor store and blew "Fire and Sulphur" all over a big rock in the parking lot that obviously symbolized Jehovahs burning anger against the United States "government" for its prohibition on alcohol!!
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  27

  What Were the "Geneologies" Of Which Paul Was Warning In 1 Tim. 1:17?

  by Justitia Themis in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  interesting...from the jaimeson, fausset and brown bible commentary:.

  genealogies--not merely such civil genealogies as were common among the jews, whereby they traced their descent from the patriarchs, to which paul would not object, and which he would not as here class with "fables," but gnostic genealogies of spirits and aeons, as they called them, "lists of gnostic emanations" [alford].

  so tertullian [against valentinian, c. 3], and irenaeus [preface].

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  still_in74

  Interesting concept, but again, we have to deal with the context at hand. That is, this is something Christians would be concerned with or that would come up in the process of their Christian lives. Gnosticism and concern over the genealogies of pagan gods would never be of their concern.
  

  But, the Christians in Ephesus were a combination of Jews AND Pagans

  I was just ready to reply when I saw you beat me to it!

  I was going to say the same thing. Considering the times that they were living in they would have not "coined" gnosticism but rather witnessed its development among the "educated". Those gentiles associating with christians would most certainly have introduced these "teachings" to other christians in conversation and debate.

  nor to pay attention to false stories and to genealogies, which end up in nothing, but which furnish questions for research rather than a dispensing of anything by God in connection with faith."

  
  What false stories would there be associated with geneologies that would be so hazardous for Christians to research if he was referring to literal geneologies of Kings? What concern would Paul have had? Yet if christians were contemplating the teachings of gnostics then certainly these "false stories" would not dispense "anything of God in connection with faith"

  I have to say, I could NEVER enjoy such a deep topic and be so well educated by the likes of Leolaia, JC & JT anywhere else other than here. I have spent all afternoon researching and sucking this in. I have never read scriptures with such open eyes before JWD. I love this!!! Please continue to post great topics for research like this.
  As for Leolaia,

  I have often thought of whether there was a historical relationship between the "genealogies" of aeons and archons in various gnostic cosmogonies and older Enochic proto-demonology

  I have to say I actually laughed out loud when I read that!! I can only imagine depths of your knowledge if these are things you "often think about" !!
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  20

  How bad can it get?

  by TooBad TooSad in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  at the watchtower study sunday a comment was made that "we must stop focusing our efforts and energies.

  on this old dying system and focus our energies on life in paradise so near at hand.

  were many nodding heads in full agreement with this tid bit of insanity.

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  still_in74

  Still_in74 you have so much passion for truth at Climax study that I DEMAND that you post your observations post bookstudy every week!

  LOL !! Yes lately I have been on a rant about the Rev book, its just so amazingly filled with unsubstantiated speculations. Some paragraphs are completely without scriptures to support major interpretations of prophecy!!!

  read my last post on the rev book http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/141196/2530958/post.ashx#2530958

  This goes into detail about Rutherford and 1919 and the 144k and the sealing and the 30 min of silence and the prayers and the killing and the oy vay rivem clavin!! (the nerd scientist from Simpsons impersonation - sorry, couldnt resist!)

  As for my rant about the seven trumpet blasts it is Chapter 21 of the book.

  Chapter 21

  Jehovah’s Plagues on Christendom

  10

  John goes on to say: "And the seven angels with the seven trumpets prepared to blow them."(Revelation8:6)What does the blowing of those trumpets mean? In the days of Israel, trumpet blasts were used to signal important days or noteworthy events. (Leviticus 23:24; 2 Kings 11:14) Similarly, the blasts of the trumpets that John is to hear will call attention to matters of life-and-death importance.

  11

  As the angels got ready to blow those trumpets, no doubt they were also giving direction to a preparatory work on earth. From 1919 to 1922, the revitalized John class was busy in reorganizing the public ministry and building up publishing facilities. In 1919 the magazine TheGoldenAge, known today as Awake!, had been brought forth as "A Journal of Fact, Hope, and Conviction"—a trumpetlike instrument that would play a key role in exposing false religion’s political involvements.

  13

  As we shall see, when the first four trumpets are blown, plagues are inflicted on "a third" of the earth, of the sea, of the rivers and fountains of waters, and of the earth’s sources of light. (Revelation 8:7-12) A third is a considerable part of something but not the whole. (Compare Isaiah 19:24; Ezekiel 5:2; Zechariah 13:8, 9.) So which "third" would be most deserving of these plagues? The vast majority of mankind has been blinded and corrupted by Satan and his seed. (Genesis 3:15; 2 Corinthians 4:4) The situation is as described by David: "They have all turned aside, they are all alike corrupt; there is no one doing good, not even one." (Psalm 14:3) Yes, the whole of mankind is in danger of receiving an adverse judgment. But one section thereof is particularly guilty. One part—"a third"—should have known better! What is that "third"?

  14

  It is Christendom! In the 1920’s, her realm embraced about one third of mankind. Her religion is the fruit of the great apostasy from true Christianity—the apostasy that Jesus and his disciples foretold. (Matthew 13:24-30; Acts 20:29, 30; 2 Thessalonians 2:3; 2 Peter 2:1-3) The clergy of Christendom claim to be in God’s temple and have represented themselves as teachers of Christianity. But their doctrines are far removed from Bible truth, and they continually bring God’s name into disrepute. Aptly represented by the symbolic third, Christendom receives potent, plaguing messages from Jehovah. That third of mankind merits no divine favor whatsoever!

  15

  In line with there being a sequence of trumpet blasts, special resolutions were featured at seven conventions from 1922 to 1928. But the trumpeting has not been confined to those years. The powerful exposing of Christendom’s wicked ways has been continuous, ongoing, as the Lord’s day progresses. Jehovah’s judgments must be proclaimed universally, to all nations, despite international hatred and persecutions. Only then does the end of Satan’s system come. (Mark 13:10, 13) Happily, the great crowd has now added its voice to that of the John class in making those thunderous pronouncements of worldwide importance.A Third of the Earth Burned Up

  16

  Reporting on the angels, John writes: "And the first one blew his trumpet. And there occurred a hail and fire mingled with blood, and it was hurled to the earth; and a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees was burned up, and all the green vegetation was burned up."(Revelation8:7) This is similar to the seventh plague on Egypt, but what does it mean for our time?—Exodus 9:24.

  17 In the Bible, the word "earth" often refers to mankind. (Genesis 11:1; Psalm 96:1) Since the second plague is on the sea, which also has to do with mankind, "the earth" must refer to the seemingly stable human society that Satan has built up and that is due to be destroyed. (2 Peter 3:7; Revelation 21:1) The plague scenario reveals that Christendom’s third of the earth is scorched by the searing heat of Jehovah’s disapproval. Her prominent ones—standing like trees in the midst of her—are burned up by the proclaiming of Jehovah’s adverse judgment. All her hundreds of millions of church members, if they continue to support Christendom’s religion, become like scorched blades of grass, spiritually wilted in God’s eyes.—Compare Psalm 37:1, 2.

  18 How is this judgment message delivered? Generally, not by the world’s news media, which are part of the world and often reproachful of God’s "slave." (Matthew 24:45) It was proclaimed in a notable way at the second historic gathering of God’s people at Cedar Point, Ohio, September 10, 1922. These unanimously and enthusiastically adopted a resolution entitled "A Challenge to World Leaders." In outspoken terms, it put the modern-day symbolic earth on notice, as follows: "We therefore call upon the nations of earth, their rulers and leaders, and upon all the clergymen of all the denominational churches of earth, their followers and allies, big business and big politicians, to bring forth their proof in justification of the position taken by them that they can establish peace and prosperity on earth and bring happiness to the people; and their failing in this, we call upon them to give ear to the testimony that we offer as witnesses for the Lord, and then let them say whether or not our testimony is true."

  20 Through resolutions, tracts, booklets, books, magazines, and discourses, this and later proclamations were trumpeted forth by means of the congregation of anointed Christians. The first trumpet blast resulted in Christendom’s being beaten as with the hardened water of a pounding hail. Her bloodguilt, due to her share in the wars of the 20th century, has been laid bare, and she has been shown to be deserving of the fiery expression of Jehovah’s wrath. The John class, with later support from the great crowd, has continued to echo the first trumpet blast, drawing attention to Jehovah’s view of Christendom, as being fit for destruction.—Revelation 7:9, 15.Like a Burning Mountain

  21 "And the second angel blew his trumpet. And something like a great mountain burning with fire was hurled into the sea. And a third of these became blood; and a third of the creatures that are in these a which have souls died, and a third of the boats were wrecked."(Revelation8:8,9) What does this frightful scene picture?

  22 We may best understand it against the background of the convention of Jehovah’s people held in Los Angeles, California, U.S.A., on August 18-26, 1923. The featured Saturday afternoon talk by J. F. Rutherford was on the topic "Sheep and Goats." The "sheep" were clearly identified as those righteously disposed persons who would inherit the earthly realm of God’s Kingdom. A resolution that followed drew attention to the hypocrisy of "apostate clergymen and ‘the principal of their flocks,’ who are worldly men of strong financial and political influence." It called on the "multitude of the peace and order loving ones in the denominational churches . . . to withdraw themselves from the unrighteous ecclesiastical systems designated by the Lord as ‘Babylon’" and to ready themselves "to receive the blessings of God’s kingdom."

  23 Doubtless, this resolution came as a result of the sounding of the second trumpet. Those who would in due course respond to that message would separate from those described by Isaiah in these words: "But the wicked are like the sea that is being tossed, when it is unable to calm down, the waters of which keep tossing up seaweed and mire." (Isaiah 57:20; 17:12, 13) Thus, "the sea" well pictures restless, unsettled, and rebellious humanity that churns up unrest and revolution. (Compare Revelation 13:1.) The time will come when that "sea" will be no more. (Revelation 21:1) Meantime, with the blast of the second trumpet, Jehovah pronounces judgment against a third of it—the unruly part that is in the realm of Christendom herself.

  24 A great mountainlike mass burning with fire is hurled into this "sea." In the Bible, mountains very often symbolize governments. For example, God’s Kingdom is portrayed as a mountain. (Daniel 2:35, 44) Ruinous Babylon became a "burnt-out mountain." (Jeremiah 51:25) But the mountainous mass that John sees is still burning. Its being hurled into the sea well represents how, during and after the first world war, the question of government became a burning issue among mankind, especially in the lands of Christendom. In Italy, Mussolini introduced Fascism. Germany embraced Hitler’s Nazism, while other countries tried different forms of socialism. A radical change occurred in Russia, where the Bolshevik revolution produced the first Communist state, with the result that religious leaders of Christendom lost power and influence in what was formerly one of their strongholds.

  25 The Fascist and Nazi experiments were snuffed out by the second world war, but government continued to be a fiery issue, and the human sea continued to churn and throw up new revolutionary governments. In the decades following 1945, these were installed in many places, such as China, Vietnam, Cuba, and Nicaragua. In Greece an experiment in military dictatorship failed. In Kampuchea (Cambodia) an excursion into fundamentalist Communism resulted in a reported two million and more deaths.

  26 That "mountain burning with fire" continued to make waves in the sea of mankind. Struggles over government have been reported in Africa, the Americas, Asia, and the Pacific islands. Many of these struggles have taken place in lands of Christendom or where Christendom’s missionaries have become activists. Roman Catholic priests even joined up with and fought as members of Communist guerrilla bands. At the same time, Protestant evangelical groups worked in Central America to counter what they called the Communists’ "vicious and relentless thirst for power." But none of these convulsions in the sea of mankind have brought peace and security.—Compare Isaiah 25:10-12; 1 Thessalonians 5:3.

  27 The second trumpet blast reveals that those of mankind who got involved in revolutionary conflicts over government rather than submit to God’s Kingdom are bloodguilty. Particularly Christendom’s "third of the sea" has become as blood. All living things therein are dead in God’s eyes. None of the radical organizations floating like boats in that third of the sea can avoid ultimate shipwreck. How happy we are that millions of sheeplike people have now heeded the trumpetlike call to separate from those who are still wallowing in the narrow nationalism and bloodguilt of that sea!A Star Falls From Heaven

  28 "And the third angel blew his trumpet. And a great star burning as a lamp fell from heaven, and it fell upon a third of the rivers and upon the fountains of waters. And the name of the star is called Wormwood. And a third of the waters turned into wormwood, and many of the men died from the waters,because these had been made bitter."(Revelation8:10,11) Once again, other parts of the Bible help us to see how this scripture applies in the Lord’s day.

  There is much more but that will be in another thread. I will make a weekly commentary!! Your request (demand) has been granted!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  20

  How bad can it get?

  by TooBad TooSad in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  at the watchtower study sunday a comment was made that "we must stop focusing our efforts and energies.

  on this old dying system and focus our energies on life in paradise so near at hand.

  were many nodding heads in full agreement with this tid bit of insanity.

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  still_in74

  at the book studies lately I have caught myself actually shaking my head in amazement.

  The seven trumpet blasts being seven resolutions from 7 district conventions? All that prophecy surviving thousands of years climaxing in a tract at a 1923 convention???
  oh but there were 50 million copies!!! Well where are they today?
  If this was such a momumental event why do only the JW's remember it? Wasnt this the proclamation against christendom? The 1/3 the oceans become blood? The life dies? The ships sink?
  How does this wind up as 50 million tracts that went in the garbage and nobody remembers?

  Before that in the rev book it was talking about Rutherford and the great crowd on earth and the sealing of the 144k in 1919. Wait a minute!! The sealing was in 1935! Why does the rev book show this statement as an encouraging presentation by the Judge when the info was wrong? Was I the only one in the room that saw the hypocrisy of that?

  But wait a minute!!!!!!!!!!! the May 1st 2007 Watchtower "Question from Readers"?
  "When does the calling of Christians to a heavenly hope cease?"
  
  "Thus it appears that we cannot set a specific date for when the calling of Christians to the heavenly hope ends."

  You mean its not 1935??? So then it is 1919 then right, just like the Rutherford said here quoted in the Revelation book! See its right here! It was what encouraged those dispondant after 1914! Thats why you put this here right?? I mean, you wouldnt possibly reveal that Jehovah strengthened his annointed by telling them they are sealed as his chosen ones of the 144k when in fact they were not sealed would you? Not when you know that doing so was a lie would you? You mean it may not be sealed even now???? What about all those replacements Freddie talked about??

  You mean Freddie liked to put himself on a pedastal with all the other annointed and have the R&F look up to him/them as something unattainable to them? You mean he liked to withold that privilege from the R&F and keep it for himself and his friends?

  Excuse me while I puke.......... discovering everything you ever believed is Bullshit is a little nausiating !!
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  27

  What Were the "Geneologies" Of Which Paul Was Warning In 1 Tim. 1:17?

  by Justitia Themis in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  interesting...from the jaimeson, fausset and brown bible commentary:.

  genealogies--not merely such civil genealogies as were common among the jews, whereby they traced their descent from the patriarchs, to which paul would not object, and which he would not as here class with "fables," but gnostic genealogies of spirits and aeons, as they called them, "lists of gnostic emanations" [alford].

  so tertullian [against valentinian, c. 3], and irenaeus [preface].

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  still_in74

  It is to the Watchtower benefit to leave things fuzzy and vague, being the mental manipulators they are.

  ARE YOU KIDDING????

  Actually VM44 I know you are kidding. This tactic is the ultimate tool! Think about how a WT article is written. Its FULL of scriptural references. But have you ever looked them up? They are the same couple dozen citations over and over. For example:
  
  "the Faithful & Discreet Slave this, that and the other thing. (Matt 24:45-47)
  "as lovers of accurate knowledge......yada yada yada.......(John 17:3)
  "we need to preach more and more and pioneer and spend every spare moment preaching...... yada yada yada.........(Matt. 28:19-20)

  Its always the same thing over and over. The more "generic" the interpretation the more broad is the field of application.

  To think of how many times I have told people that we have scriptures to support everything written, and would taut this as evidence of truth!
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  17

  wife of jw pedophile speaks out

  by candidlynuts in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007430080,00.html.

  wife: i stand by jehovah paedo.

  by anthony france.

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  still_in74

  Porter is still a Jehovah’s Witness and calls at the homes of local people unaware of his sick past to promote the faith.

  I have to be honest with you, I think the article has it wrong here. There is no way a man (brother) that was charged with crimes like these would be allowed to go out in the community and represent the WTS in "field service" so soon after the incident.

  The OM book clearly states that any "representative" of the WTS must be not only be in good standing but their repuation in the community must also be considered. This is in harmony with 1 Tim chapter 3

  (1 Timothy 3:1-13) . . .If any man is reaching out for an office of overseer, he is desirous of a fine work. 2The overseer should therefore be irreprehensible, a husband of one wife, moderate in habits, sound in mind, orderly, hospitable, qualified to teach, 3 not a drunken brawler, not a smiter, but reasonable, not belligerent, not a lover of money, 4 a man presiding over his own household in a fine manner, having children in subjection with all seriousness; 5 (if indeed any man does not know how to preside over his own household, how will he take care of God’s congregation?) 6 not a newly converted man, for fear that he might get puffed up [with pride] and fall into the judgment passed upon the Devil. 7Moreover, he should also have a fine testimony from people on the outside, in order that he might not fall into reproach and a snare of the Devil.8 Ministerial servants should likewise be serious, not double-tongued, not giving themselves to a lot of wine, not greedy of dishonest gain, 9 holding the sacred secret of the faith with a clean conscience. 10Also, let these be tested as to fitness first, then let them serve as ministers, as they are free from accusation. 11 Women should likewise be serious, not slanderous, moderate in habits, faithful in all things. 12 Let ministerial servants be husbands of one wife, presiding in a fine manner over children and their own households. 13For the men who minister in a fine manner are acquiring for themselves a fine standing and great freeness of speech in the faith in connection with Christ Jesus.

  I do not believe that this man is still serving as an MS and I do not believe he would even be allowed to "preach" publicly.