Posts by monophonic

29

Universal Sovereignty

by monophonic in

i can't remember if i read this here, but i was reminded from another thread..

universal sovereignty is pretty much the whole explanation for why god permits suffering, correct?.

why would a god of love make it last so long?

Universal Sovereignty

by monophonic in

i can't remember if i read this here, but i was reminded from another thread..

universal sovereignty is pretty much the whole explanation for why god permits suffering, correct?.

why would a god of love make it last so long?

Universal Sovereignty

by monophonic in

i can't remember if i read this here, but i was reminded from another thread..

universal sovereignty is pretty much the whole explanation for why god permits suffering, correct?.

why would a god of love make it last so long?

monophonic

you're not counting service time or return visits in this forum, are you?

anyway, i pretty much disagree with most of your explanations, so we'll just leave it at that. because like i said, i don't have the answers and that's ok....i believe no human has the answers, and many would disagree with my beliefs as well...especially since you feel you have the answers. c'est la vie.

29

Universal Sovereignty

by monophonic in

i can't remember if i read this here, but i was reminded from another thread..

universal sovereignty is pretty much the whole explanation for why god permits suffering, correct?.

why would a god of love make it last so long?

monophonic

i personally think the whole 'he's waiting for more to be born and accept him' is a crock. just like another poster said, so, we have to wait until 3400 ad or something for more people to be born.

not all humanity is bad, in fact a very large portion have good intentions and are imperfect. we can't be held responsible for errors in judgement in this F-ed up world.

think about 3rd world countries and even poorer countries and kids dying in gunfire everyday that they're participating in....just so more can be born and 'saved'?

so, if God would just straighten everything out and 'take over', and if the theory of destiny isn't considered, then people having sex before or after He has actually done something isn't even a concern.

millions of my sperm brothers died in the back seat of my dad's car, so even being alive is a throw of the dice, whether things are good or bad. do we have to continue to experience suffering just to be born? i think it's a wtbts explanation that still glosses over the real issue.

and, regarding 1/3 of the angels, comparing that to humans in any way does not make sense. skinheads? c'mon. perfect, spirit beings. why would perfect spirit beings, serving under the throne of God, in all his glory, throw that away for the cause of Satan if that cause was doomed? one third of perfect spirit beings?

i'm not saying that's something that actually happened, just what the bible says.

i don't think there's an answer that anyone can come up with unless it's the wtbts sweeping it under the rug to focus on how they're the FDS and all will be exposed at the appointed time.

"Interesting, but I guess you haven't read your Bible. Ever hear of JUDGMENT DAY? It's just for YOU"

you're pretty antagonistic in your 'answers', just like active jws, born agains, evangelicals, it's all about 'knowing' and not about interesting discussion. i have read the bible and continue to read different versions of it. ..when in the end no one really knows. i'm reading it more as a literary exercise these days.

"He's definitely around, but more directly with the anointed, especially these days since 1947."

uh, what?

anyway, most of my questions are directed to a God who seems complacent, not to a human's interpretation of what the spirit world is all about, b/c we don't know, and that's ok.

29

Universal Sovereignty

by monophonic in

i can't remember if i read this here, but i was reminded from another thread..

universal sovereignty is pretty much the whole explanation for why god permits suffering, correct?.

why would a god of love make it last so long?

monophonic

I can't remember if I read this here, but i was reminded from another thread.

Universal Sovereignty is pretty much the whole explanation for why God permits suffering, correct?

Why would a God of love make it last so long? Why would humans even question his sovereignty if He actually stepped in and started straightening things up in this world?

I read somewhere recently, maybe here, that Satan took 1/3 of the angels with him from heaven. One third is quite a lot. Of perfect beings. Who have seen and witnessed many aspects of creation? Why would that many be 'fooled'? Even that many imperfect humans wouldn't be fooled if God was love and showed himself to be caring and perfect as the bible says. If the imperfect humans had witnessed everything written in the bible and how Jehovah dealt with the situations.

And, comparing the harsh, killing God of the Old Testament (Hebrew scripts) to the loving Jesus arrangement of the New Testament (Greek scripts), it seems schizophrenic.

Here's a quote from Vonnegut:

"And Lot's wife, of course, was told not to look back where all those people and their homes had been. But she did look back, and I love her for that, because it was so human."

Personally, I feel like I can finally embrace my humanity. That I don't need to strive for being 'an example', even though that was pounded into me for way too many years by parents, elders and the wtbts. Just like the renaissance, when artists finally dumped religious art and embraced the human form and bodies made by God. Some of them saw it as paying tribute to God for his creation.

So, he created us, now we're all imperfect and dying, why not embrace our own humanity?

And where in the hell are you God? If you're there, make things right. And if I die and I can book a five minute interview with you, I'm going to let you know how pissed off I am at you and that I feel ok with being pissed at you, because I'm human and you've supposedly given us these holy texts that are so open to misuse and interpretation and let all this suffering happen. Weren't there Watchtower articles written re: the Holocaust about people who knew about the horrific concentration camps, but didn't do anything to stand up against them, made them accountable as well. Or it could've been another example. Even the wtbts and their rules on sharing in sin by not telling on a sinner.

But, God is standing by, watching this stuff happen and not stepping in. We don't even need a Holocaust or wars to show us how messed up humanity is...there's a lot more in general...and yet, God stands by, complacent?

That's just some random thoughts I've had recently. Comment as you like. But I feel a little more caffeine bubbling in my continued ease with being Agnostic, with a twist of lemon.

I also suggest watching the amazing BBC series, "Unreported World", especially the recent episode on India. Grab them off of bittorrent or newsgroups if you're out of BBC range. We're lucky we have a chance to even discuss this stuff while people around the world spend every waking moment surviving worse than animals.

Reading them a scripture like...just look at the lillies of the field (can't remember the rest), would get a well deserved slap across the face.

Might have been appropo for those in need in say, uh, year 30 a.d.

Really taking a step back and thinking about the 1/3 angels going with Satan's side....that just doesn't make sense unless there's some real validation to Satan's accusations.

If there is a Satan that is.

If the God of the bible is actually God.

If the bible is truth.

Then those 1/3 of the angels, however many billions or so that is, made very thoughtful, contemplative decisions to shack up with Satan. Having years and years of experience and learning beyond what we can even fathom, and they still went, 'nah, we're going with the dude that makes snakes talk'.

31

How the Circuit Overseer Manipulates the Body of Elders

by TMS in

jw
friends

the relationship between local elders and the circuit overseer has fluctuated over the years.

in the sixties, .

the circuit overseer simply appointed all the servants.

monophonic

i remember being an MS and when the CO met with all the MSs and elders, it was a kiss ass love fest. the CO may as well have been jesus and everyone was shaped up and practically saying, 'yes masta'.

39

Suicide

by Nicolas in

jw
friends

i know it's a touchy subject, but anyone here has ever thought of suicide while they were still in the organization?

it seem to me that jehovah's witnesses have a much higher rate of suicide than the rest of the population.

i contemplated suicide myself when i was struggling to get piece of my life back together after being raised as a "perfect little jw" when i was young.

monophonic

great topic.

two jw friends killed themselves. one inactive for years and another active.

i contemplated killing myself while i was still 'in' and thought that my lightly fooling around with a girl was going to get me dead at armageddon, so my rational was to kill myself and hope for a resurrection.

other jw teens have attempted suicide that i know of....and one guy i grew up w/ in the hall is in jail for murder....he completely lost it, had been losing it for a while, and flipped out.

of course in the 80's/90's, suicide and therapy was considered wrong, and it was suggested that jehovah's holy spirit had left the person and even family.

then they lightened up on being so harsh on families who have had suicides....so it was nice to see some reasonableness regarding them (elders) all of a sudden being nurturing...but forget about an apology from the wtbts for the damage they caused many families in these delicate situations over the years by witch hunting them instead of consoling them.

54

nine pages of BS from October AWAKE

by purplesofa in

i hope that some of you lurkers out here really take a look at some of the thread in this section of the board.

this awake magazine says not one thing about how families are asked to trust their elders and how these very elders were and are abusing their children.

it mentions nothing about watching out for these trusted men in the congregations.............oh it brings out the internet, other family members and fathers and males in particular.. it will tell you how much your child needs to do to prevent something like this from happening.

monophonic

"What makes me sick is that the WTS NEVER apologizes, never admits wrongdoing!"

that's the main reason I finally decided there was no going back ever. it's the actions of a predator, to divert the blame and never take responsibility....or a sociopath...one or both of those.

36

bookworm?

by John Doe in

jw
friends

i was just counting, and i've read 16 books over the last three months, not counting text books.

average length is 550 to 600 pages, which means i've read 8800 to 9600 pages this summer, plus another 1000 or so of textbooks, plus all the online bs i read.

think i'm going to wear my eyes out?

monophonic

any book recommendations?

77

The C word

by ness in

how do your minds work people??.

the word 'cult'.

who is comfortable saying they were raised in a 'cult' or were brainwashed temporarily by a 'cult'?.

monophonic

by the way, ozzie, thanks for insinuating that there was hate speech in my post. really fu(*ing nice of you to throw that label around.

there was no hate speech, only swearing.

ozzie, that's pathetic that you put that as one of the reasons for taking the post down, please be HONEST, and edit that. if you'll read any and all of my posts you'll see i NEVER use hate speech.