Posts by B_Deserter

19

Fantasizing about the end of the Jehovah's Witnesses?

by Bring_the_Light in

i'm pretty new here.

after being on my own 10 years, i'm finally coming to grips with my past (which i previously just ignored/didn't think about).

thanks for existing everyone, its been very existential.

B_Deserter

The JWs are going to make a lot of changes over the years for one reason: survival. A religion that does not change will not survive.

17

Single Ministerial Servants and Elders...

by B_Deserter in

i'm sure this has been touched on before, but i just thought about it tonight.

i was thinking about the appointment of ministerial servants (deacons) and elders (bishops) in the kingdom hall.

the watchtower society runs down the list of requirements in acts, that they must be good examples, pure, etc.

"This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?); not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil." (1 Timothy 3:1-7)

"Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy for money, holding the mystery of the faith with a pure conscience. But let these also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons, being found blameless. Likewise, their wives must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things. Let deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a good standing and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus." (1 Timothy 3:8-13)

It's not Acts, sorry, but same principle applies here. All those qualifications apply for ministerial servants and elders, except "husband of one wife."

18

Not what but why you believe.

by Anti-Christ in

jehovah's witnesses believe many things that are different then most christian religions.

i remember going door to door and people asking me all kinds of questions regarding my faith, they wanted to know what i believed.

what someone believes is important but what is even more important is why you believe.

B_Deserter

Back when I was a dub, I would say the whole 1919 thing, and how the Society were the only ones preaching the basic core beliefs that JWs view as "the truth," namely, no hellfire, no trinity, and that Jesus was coming.

17

Single Ministerial Servants and Elders...

by B_Deserter in

i'm sure this has been touched on before, but i just thought about it tonight.

i was thinking about the appointment of ministerial servants (deacons) and elders (bishops) in the kingdom hall.

the watchtower society runs down the list of requirements in acts, that they must be good examples, pure, etc.

B_Deserter

I'm sure this has been touched on before, but I just thought about it tonight. I was thinking about the appointment of Ministerial Servants (Deacons) and Elders (Bishops) in the Kingdom Hall. The Watchtower Society runs down the list of requirements in Acts, that they must be good examples, pure, etc. They apply all of these requirements, except one: marriage. Single elders are quite rare, and I'm not sure if it's even possible to have a single elder nowadays, but you see unmarried ministerial servants all the time. In fact, for a lot of witness females, it's a pre-requisite for marriage. Has anyone ever asked their elders about this? How does the borg justify this blatant violation of scripture?

50

Atheist need to start fighting fire with fire LITERALY

by 5go in

i was watching some program on the inquisition.

you know that thing christianity would love for you to forget happened.. when the court system of rome failed the christian courts took over they instituted trial by ordeal.. simply put any accused of a crime would be tortured tested to see if they were innocent by many forms of painful test to see if god would come to the accused's defence.

if they were innocent then no harm would happen to them because of their faith, of course pretty much 100% of the time they were hurt an were summarily executed punished with all the love of jesus in mind.. atheist should due the same accuse all of christians of crimes and force them into trial by ordeal to prove their innocence and backed by god.

B_Deserter

I don't think you'll find one rational atheist who supports those tactics.

19

Major Changes in Watchtower Land???

by dedalus in

jw
friends

according to my wife, who is reading some other discussion board, the following changes are happening in the organization, or will happen, or have happened:.

1. no more book study meetings.

instead, the book study is added to the theocratic ministry school meeting.. 2. awake is published only once a month.. 3. two versions of the watchtower: one for the public, one for the witnesses themselves.. 4. shortened sunday meetings -- 1.5 hours instead of 2.0 hours.. 5. shortened hourly requirements for pioneers (this one may not be as new as the others?)..

B_Deserter

Ladies and gentleman, we have a new JCanon

49

The Dawkins Deception (bogus reasoning on the "improbability" of God)

by hooberus in

recently i carefully read (and highlighted) chapter 4 of richard dawkins book "the god delusion".

dawkins argument is meant to show that "there almost certainly is no god".

his reasoning (taken from various points on different pages by myself) is basically as follows:.

B_Deserter

I think you're missing the point. If you had read the rest of the book (which I have), you'd realize that the scientific theories state that life most certainly did NOT come about solely by chance. The theory of Natural Selection is the polar opposite of chance. It states that creatures more suited to their environment will survive long enough to reproduce. The "chance" element comes in random mutations due to many different factors. Even then, the "chance" element is an illusion of sorts. Every mutation has a reason.

Dawkins' argument is sound, and you are the one creating the straw man, here. He was merely pointing out the hyprocrisy of the creationist belief that the complexity of life requires a creator, yet the infinitely more complex creator doesn't. It basically works out to two different choices. Do you A) believe that all the matter and energy in the universe has always existed, in accordance with the Laws of Thermodynamics? or B) believe in a "creator" super-being who has always existed, and created the universe, the earth, and all life upon it with magic? Which one sounds more reasonable?

223

Diary of a thinking to return ex-Jw

by reniaa in

i thought long and hard about posting this but the mis-information on this site finally persuaded me, i already accept many may not accept what i say on face value and get their appologist pens ready for making sure no pro-witness propaganda slips through the net on this site but here goes....... i've been on this forum for a few months my first post was about how i was thinking of returning to jw's and at my sisters recommendation to look at this site for both sides of the story before taking that step.. i faded from jw's 10/11 years ago now i left my hubby at the time divorced him to going on to have more relationships and kids, i was definately given the impression after asking on this site and with what i read that if i tried to return i might face df or at least a jc but definately a couple of elders questioning me over what i've been upto these last few years - none of these have happened.

i talked with an old jw friend (yes i do have then and she never shunned me quite happily accepted an offer of coffee from me and my asking for a chat) i told her i was interested in going back and was very frank about what i done in the last 10 years but not sure how returning was done now, she quite happily said she go ask for me to find out.. result!

she came back this week and said "all i had to do was goto meetings again" and an offer of a study was there for me if i wanted it to explore the open doubts that i had expressed i now had.. not quite the fire and brimstone welcome this site led me to believe would happen.. i will keep you posted with further updates if i feel the need to put them in future.. .

B_Deserter

and an offer of a study was there for me if i wanted it to explore the open doubts that I had expressed i now had.

Of course they're willing to address your doubts! They do it all the time. The problem is if their answers aren't satisfying to you, or you don't agree. They're only interested in your doubts if you end up agreeing with them.

223

Diary of a thinking to return ex-Jw

by reniaa in

i thought long and hard about posting this but the mis-information on this site finally persuaded me, i already accept many may not accept what i say on face value and get their appologist pens ready for making sure no pro-witness propaganda slips through the net on this site but here goes....... i've been on this forum for a few months my first post was about how i was thinking of returning to jw's and at my sisters recommendation to look at this site for both sides of the story before taking that step.. i faded from jw's 10/11 years ago now i left my hubby at the time divorced him to going on to have more relationships and kids, i was definately given the impression after asking on this site and with what i read that if i tried to return i might face df or at least a jc but definately a couple of elders questioning me over what i've been upto these last few years - none of these have happened.

i talked with an old jw friend (yes i do have then and she never shunned me quite happily accepted an offer of coffee from me and my asking for a chat) i told her i was interested in going back and was very frank about what i done in the last 10 years but not sure how returning was done now, she quite happily said she go ask for me to find out.. result!

she came back this week and said "all i had to do was goto meetings again" and an offer of a study was there for me if i wanted it to explore the open doubts that i had expressed i now had.. not quite the fire and brimstone welcome this site led me to believe would happen.. i will keep you posted with further updates if i feel the need to put them in future.. .

B_Deserter

I'm going to be frank, here, but it seems like there never really was a question in your mind over whether you were going back or not. It seems like you came on this site, cherry-picked a few of our more extreme posts, and used it to confirm the society's blanket "apostate" label.

When it comes to Jehovah's Witnesses, your mileage will vary. One thing about the organization is the extreme inconsistency from congregation to congregation. I'm not talking about doctrine, I'm talking about all the things that supposedly aren't doctrine. The elders could be playing laser tag in one congregation, but go to another one and you'll get your privileges taken away for it. In one congregation you could have a 19-year-old marrying a 16-year-old, when in another the Presiding Overseer will take you off the pioneer list if you date before 30. Every congregation has their own set of rules over what is kosher and what isn't. Personally, I've dealt with these differences and it's convinced me that Jehovah's Witnesses are certainly not "united in worship." They may study the same publications and believe some of the same things about the Bible, but the rules and regulations imposed by some elder bodies is appalling.

I'm not going to say that being on this site will bring disfellowshipping. You may live in the territory of a very liberal congregation. You seem to think we're saying that all the elders everywhere will react exactly the same. All we're doing is relating our individual experiences. Some aren't quite as rosy as yours apparently is. I will say this, the fact that your elders would allow you on this site means that they're violating the Watchtower Society's direction. Anyone from Brooklyn will tell you that someone openly reading message boards like this is a danger to the congregation.

Personally, my problem with the religion is its doctrine. It was one of their own books, Pay Attention to Daniel's Prophecy that started my course out of the faith. It contained vast logical leaps, glossing over inconvenient scriptures by saying they had "dual fulfillment," a doctrine with absolutely no basis whatsoever. It all unraveled for me after that. The scriptures they were using to describe paradise were actually describing the conditions of Jerusalem rebuilt in the context. There is no evidence that it has any other meaning. I saw how the Society strings together their doctrines with snippets of completely unrelated scriptures. I questioned their statement that God has always had an organization. I asked myself, who was God's organization from 100 CE to 1918 CE? Who was God's organization from the time of Adam to the time of the priesthood. Contrary to what the Watchtower teaches, the Bible consistently shows God communicating directly with one man, not an "organization" of men.

I began to ask myself more questions. Where in the Bible does it talk about the Apostles recording their time preaching? Where in the Bible does it talk about anyone but Apostles and those invited directly by them engaging in a public door-to-door ministry? Jesus said "go therefore and make disciples." He didn't say "go therefore, and divideth up the land into territories. Then all disciples should take a territory and completeth it every six months. Then all disciples shalt record their time and send it to the congregation in Jerusalem."

I realized one day that I just don't believe. Belief in God doesn't make sense to me. I left JWs, not because of people, but because I have many fundamental disagreements with the organization. I don't like how they are completely unaccountable. When they made predictions about the end, they called themselves "God's prophet." But when the predictions didn't come true, they say "we never called ourselves a prophet!" I cannot agree with the admonition in the September 2007 Kingdom Ministry that we shouldn't do any Bible research in private groups, learn Greek or Hebrew to check the validity of the New World Translation, or use books other than those published by the society in our research. This ruling flies in the face of intellectual freedom and reveals their tactics of information control.

Bottom line, I can't be a Jehovah's Witness because A) I don't believe in God, and B) even if I did, I don't believe in "the organization." Remember, submission to the organization is required of all Jehovah's Witnesses, whether your local elders want to enforce it strictly or not.

28

Funniest Meeting Memories

by YoungAmerican in

there are always so many bad memories related here i thought it might be nice to change it up a bit.

what are some of your funniestmemories of the meetings, or even field service?

things that happened things said?

B_Deserter

I was visiting my parents at the congregation in which I grew up. There was a family sitting in front of us during the meeting that had a set of twin daughters in their early-20's sitting in front of me. These girls are mentally retarded and can't talk that well.

As we stood up for the song, I noticed a large pool of blood on the seat of the twin in front of me, and a matching blood spot on the back of her dress. It was unexpected, and instinctively raised my song book to block the view of the whole thing. My mom took her into the bathroom. The girl's dad covered the spot up with a book.