Posts by B_Deserter

Time and placements are counted separately, and yes the vast majority of Witnesses count time even if they're not talking to anybody. I only heard of one person ever who actually used a stopwatch and only counted the time he spend talking at the door. Most JWs start counting time when the first door is knocked on to the time they decide to go back to the Kingdom Hall. Usually there's a "coffee break" in between, and if it runs long some will knock out a half hour or so, but in most cases that entire block of the morning or afternoon counts. The justification I always heard was "well, people see us and they know who we are, and that makes them think about Jehovah, so we're indirectly witnessing to them."

Interesting story: This sister I was interested in at one time decided to go with a group of her friends to "witness" in the next state over. They spent 3 hours driving from southern Ohio to West Virginia, left a magazine in a gas station or two, drove back, and counted all 6 hours. I thought it was scandalous at the time. Now I think it's awesome!

22

I also have questions about field service...

by losthobbit in

i never was a jw, so please excuse my lack of knowledge here.... after reading some posts on this forum it seems i've realized that i don't fully understand what field service is.

it seems that field service is the following (and please correct me):.

- something jw's have to do for a specific number of hours per month.

B_Deserter

- Does this mean that JW's don't actually have to go door to door, and c ould theoretically write a mass spam emailing program which they run for a specific number of hours per month.

I doubt it. Although "alternative witnessing" is generally applauded, the door-to-door method is the bread and butter, and there is an informal expectation that all witnesses get at least some of their time in that way. I remember hearing several talks that stressed d2d as the primary method every JW should be using. I think emailing would be a bit controversial. The concept of time spent is generally accepted to mean the time one actually puts in, not the time a program of theirs runs while they do something else. The organization gets really skittish when it comes to the internet and email, and have come out and said that JWs shouldn't witness to people online through websites or chat rooms. I think that would naturally extend to email spamming as well.

- Have you ever gone door to door, while not actually believing the teachings of the organization? And, if so, did you still debate with people, or did you simply avoid questions, and say "I don't know", or "Maybe"? I'm particularly curious about this, because I wonder if there's a way to tell, when a JW comes around what their actual level of belief is... like, is there a question that you would have tried to avoid?

I think I did once or twice, but even when I was a believer I never really made that much of an effort. Usually it was just a variation of "hi, I have these magazines, want em?" because whenever I tried something different, like something from the Reasoning Book, I'd either screw it up or be thrown completely off guard because the householder would respond in a way that wasn't in the book. A few people tried to debate with me, but I was never good at it. Usually I ended up coming up with the perfect response a few minutes after the conversation ended. Like once, I had these Baptist kids come up to me to invite me to their church event. I told them I was a JW, and we started discussing hell. The kid showed me their pamphlet that had that scripture in Revelation that said "and death and hell were thrown into the lake of fire." He said "so you see, the lake of fire is hell." I totally didn't see the contradiction in that it said hell was actually being thrown into the lake of fire, so the lake of fire couldn't have been hell, but I just said I'd have to ask someone older and left.

- If JW's have to do field service for a couple of hours at a time, would they welcome a non-religious chat... "So, how's this weather we're having today?"... or would they prefer... "Thank you, bye bye", so they can move on to the next door and hand out another flyer?

It depends. Some people get chatty and making small talk to ease the householder into the discussion in encouraged. A JW might say, "you have a beautiful garden" if the person is working outside or something, and then break the ice that way. Of course, the small talk would only last up to a point before the JW starts itching to leave, and where I grew up the people who tended to talk too much were crazy, smelled incredibly foul, or both.

53

Do Active Witnesses Find Meetings Exciting?

by Band on the Run in

jw
friends

kh meetings were utter hell.

the boredom, particularly for a child, was awful.

i feel it was a form of child abuse.

B_Deserter

I was never able to psych myself into enjoying the meetings. Let's face it. They were boring. Really. Really. REALLY boring. If they weren't boring, why would they have to constantly tell the Witnesses that they aren't? Why would they have to tell the Witnesses constantly that they enjoy the meetings and are refreshed by them? There's a lot of that manipulation in their methods. They constantly tell the rank and file how they feel about things.

So yes, when I was a kid I hated them. Sometimes I'd go into the bathroom, not because I had to go, but because it'd give me a ten minute reprieve. The meetings actually seemed to go faster sitting on a toilet in the bathroom than they did in my seat, for some reason.

When I grew up I was constantly falling asleep. So much so that I kind of got a reputation for it. Meetings aren't exciting. The only Witnesses who think so have allowed themselves to be manipulated into it.

52

Great refutation of Watchtower's "Origin of Life" and "Was Life Created?" brochures

by Third Eye Open in

link: http://www.mediafire.com/?fzjmfambyro0fof.

the essay linked above was written specifically to address the new creationist brochures that were put out by the watchtower at this year's district convention.

the goals of the essay are the following:.

B_Deserter

My dad recently sent me an email bragging how the Writing Committee fixes things that are found to be incorrect. I sent him this pdf and said perhaps they should take a look and do some more evaluating. He replied if the author thinks it's so good, why doesn't he submit it to the Watchtower Society himself? I haven't responded yet but I want to ask him how he knows it hasn't?

Anyway, has the author considered sending it into the society? I mean if we're going to criticize we should at least send them into the organization we're criticizing. Perhaps they'll see the light and retract both publications immediately and change their teaching on evolution

....

...

.....

BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

7

AimeeV, how could you lurk here so long without posting? Welcome BTW.

by VampireDCLXV in

i post this here as a welcome for aimeev.. can you believe she signed on in 2007 and only started posting here this week?

how did you manage that?.

let's give her a big jwn welcome, shall we?.

B_Deserter

I used to know someone with that first name and last initial. I wonder if it's that person.

18

Do you cherry pick your science?

by cyberjesus in

B_Deserter

"In the Bible, scientific knowledge is called "gnosis"."

No. It isn't.

"Gnosis" is a greek word for "knowledge," more specifically it "is the spiritual knowledge of a saint or mystically enlightened human being." Modern science as a concept did not exist back then. What you're doing is shoe-horning it into your definition in order to lend false legitimacy your supernatural beliefs. Gnosis is nowhere near the kind of knowledge it takes to create a cell phone, or cure smallpox. Science deals with testable, predictable phenomenon only. It is the study of the natural world. If it cannot be objectively tested, it is not science. End of story.

48

Do You Truly Believe A Certain Politician Or Political Party WILL Bring About Real Change?

by minimus in

jw
friends

soooo many thought obama was the savior and now scores of people are abandoning him and his policies.

the pendulum swings and you hear how we need a republican to bail us out of our mess.. do you really believe a single person or party can make the changes for the country or the world ?

?.

B_Deserter

Could a certain politician bring about real change? Yes. I know this because they have. It took politicians to give women the right to vote and end Jim Crow laws. Any system of government, when run by assholes, will not function correctly. That said, a lot of negative changes have happened as well. Just read about the Republican Party's "Southern Strategy" to exploit the racism in the south to gain power and you'll see what I mean.

The problem here ultimately is the political party structure itself. George Washington in his farewell address warned us about this. He said of political parties:

"It serves to distract the Public Councils, and enfeeble the Public Administration....agitates the Community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one....against another....it opens the door to foreign influence and corruption...thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another."

What in that quote doesn't describe the current political climate? Distracting the Public Councils and enfeebling the Public Administration? Check. Just look at the gridlock going on in congress. The Republican Party has switched to a platform of "just oppose everything the Democrats want, even if it's something we wanted five years ago." The Democrats have become so utterly gutless that can't even leverage their majority to get anything done. We have a gridlocked government because of partisan bickering. It's a lot harder to do that when there are no "sides" and everyone needs to stand on their own when it comes to the issues.

Agitates the Community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms? Kindles animosity? Check. One of my favorite websites is michigantruthsquad.org. They analyze the political ads of every politician they can find in the current mid-term election season here in this state. It's alarming what they've dug up. Every politician, regardless of party, is lying about something in their ads. Facts are exaggerated, even completely made up on both sides. Heck, you can even vote by just checking which party you want and it automatically selects every candidate from one party for you.

Opening the door to foreign influence and corruption? Check. The recent Supreme court case allowing corporations to donate to political campaigns certainly opens that door. Just think, foreign-owned corporations can now directly influence our elections. Scary thought, isn't it?

It's a shame none of the other founding fathers had Washington's fortitude in this matter. Imagine picking each candidate based on their individual merits instead of "well I'm a democrat so I'm voting for the democrat" or "I'm a republican so I'm voting for the republican." A lot of people do this to some extent now, but not as much as I'd personally like to see.

157

Glenn Beck

by will_the_apostate in

do j dubs like glenn beck?

they seem like peas in a pod to me.

B_Deserter

I like Glen. Because he is bold and reports on the things others journalists are afraid to touch.

It's not that journalists are afraid to touch it, it's because what Glen does is not journalism. What Glen does pull "facts" out of thin air and concocts an entertaining (to some) story with them. What he does should never, ever be construed with anything even close to journalism.

I thinks he is healthy debate for the country.

A healthy debate is where both sides seek the truth based on the same set of obvious facts. Glen Beck at the very least has an extremely warped idea of "truth." To him, anything is "true" if it accomplishes a goal he wishes to be accomplished. Take for example his gratuitous usage of the dubious founding father quotes he gets from revisionist conman David Barton. Or how about the Goldline scam he endorses?

I thought the rally today was too Churchy. :)

If you like Glen Beck then this should not have surprised you.