Posts by B_Deserter

52

Do you still believe in God

by solidergirl in

i was wondering why da or df jw no longer believe in god when they make up their mind to no longer attend a meeting.

first off let's not say that all of us become athiest when leaving.

many on this board believe in god.

"I think so many misplace their anger and pain caused by the WT onto them and as a result feel they no longer believe."

I take exception to that. It's like telling a lesbian she is really straight but just hasn't "had a real man yet"

52

Do you still believe in God

by solidergirl in

i was wondering why da or df jw no longer believe in god when they make up their mind to no longer attend a meeting.

first off let's not say that all of us become athiest when leaving.

many on this board believe in god.

B_Deserter

As to proof what do you mean exactly?

Tangible, testable evidence that God exists

Are you numb to your own sense of what you are?

I don't believe humans are so special. In fact when considering the fact of how incredibly huge the universe is, chances are there are other intelligent species out there as well. Even if the chances are one in a trillion, there are trillions upon trillions of stars. If you're referring to how the earth seems to have been "made" for humans, I think that is the equivalent of saying that the human nose was designed perfectly for eyeglasses. Humans evolved because they fit the environment just enough to survive, not the other way around. Plus, there are many things about the earth that make it hostile to humans:

We can't live on more than 75% of it
We can't eat most of the food growing on it
There are countless poisonous and predatory animals
Many places vulnerable to earthquakes, volcanoes, tidal waves, tornadoes, hurricanes, etc.

I think I have a perfectly good sense of what I am, I just don't have any delusions of grandeur about it

Do you have a presence of energy in your being?

There is lots of energy in my body. Bioelectric energy, kinetic energy, heat energy, tons of it! I have a feeling though you aren't referring to any of those but an unprovable mystical energy force not unlike "the Force" of the Star Wars films. Claiming the existence of this so-called mystical energy is walking on thin ice scientifically. Most people who make such claims can't say what kind of energy it is, or how to measure it, other than "feeling." One thing a rational mind always remembers is that feelings rarely lead to facts.

The fact that you are capable of existing is all the proof I can offer, it is simple beyond belief and if one isn't ready to recieve what is always available then the suffering isn't over for that individual, and more must be experienced.

The fact that I'm existing is no proof whatsoever. You present a cause (god) and an effect (existence) but provide no path between the two. One could substitute any cause (flying teapots or invisible flying spaghetti monsters) and present just as sound an argument as you have. These kinds of answers are why I don't believe. They're simply not good enough.

69

Jehovah's Witnesses are not a cult and here's why I think so

by B_Deserter in

when most people think of "cult" they think of the people's temple, the branch davidians, or heaven's gate.

many also want to put jehovah's witnesses, mormons, and scientologists into this group.

i don't agree with that because there is one main difference between true cults and high-control groups like jws:.

B_Deserter

Ok I've read a lot of the arguments and I agree with a lot of you. Yes, JWs are dangerous, there's no doubt about that. My problem is with the accepted definition of cult, it's too broad, and could be applied to just about every single religious group in existence, from Catholics to Bahai. The term cult is not typically used to describe religions like JWs, Mormons, etc, even though it could be. I also agree with the sentiment that "high control group" sounds too PC and "candy-coated," and using "cult" certainly gets the point across. I wish there was a term that was accurate and didn't sound so gentle, in fact one that sounds worse than a cult would be better.....

11

Sect holes up in cave to await end of world

by Rabbit in

gotta love the hope scary invisible spirits gives us mere mortals.. .

sect holes up in cave to await end of world by tatyana ustinovathu nov 15, 8:57 am et.

at least 30 members of a russian doomsday cult have barricaded themselves in a remote cave to await the end of the world and are threatening to commit suicide if police intervene, officials and media said thursday.. "they have covered the entrance and refuse to come out and are threatening to blow themselves up," an official in the local prosecutor's office told reuters by telephone.

B_Deserter

I remember my parents telling me as a child that we need to be prepared and obedient because they day might come where we will be asked to do something we don't want to do like leave our homes and live in caves/the wilderness/etc. and being obedient could mean our lives. This makes me think it's possible that the society is preparing for something, possibly the largest mass-suicide ever seen on the face of the earth, or a violent crusade. All the elements are in place: the rhetoric about being obedient at all costs, the intense reinforcement of the belief the society speaks for Jehovah himself, and the fact that the society can change the interpretations of scripture at will with little to no resistance thanks to "new light." It doesn't matter if they teach the battle of Armageddon will be fought by angels only now, no doctrine is sacred, and that idea can change in a heartbeat.

52

Do you still believe in God

by solidergirl in

i was wondering why da or df jw no longer believe in god when they make up their mind to no longer attend a meeting.

first off let's not say that all of us become athiest when leaving.

many on this board believe in god.

B_Deserter

The death of my belief in God actually came 6 months ago and I have yet to leave. My situation prevents me from making a break right now, but I long for the day when that comes. Anyway, I don't see my deconversion as any different than the deconversion of someone who is baptist or mormon. Most people aren't born to atheist parents, so it happens to a lot of people. The principle reasons for my lack of belief are this:

1. No one has been able to present a supporting argument for God worthy of my consideration.
2. The Bible is a deeply flawed book whose contradictions are only explained away by a set of mental gymnastics called theology.
3. Even in the extremely remote possibility a creator exists, the chances that a group of bronze age shepards figured it all out 5,000 years ago are even more astoundingly small.
4. Just because we don't know how something works doesn't mean that God did it.

22

Attn: JW's and Bible Students - Lets Discuss John 1:1

by lovelylil in

this verse came up on the thread about whether or not jesus is michael the archangel.

i wanted to discuss it in further detail on a new thread because i think raised on the other thread was an important point about how jw's and bs translate john 1:1.

1in the beginning was the word, and the word was with god, and the word was god.. as we know the nwt adds an "a" to say "and the word was (a) god, when there is no support for this in the ancient greek manuscripts.

B_Deserter

The only way this can finally be put to rest is to ask the author what he meant. To me, the arguments are just as strong on either side.

69

Jehovah's Witnesses are not a cult and here's why I think so

by B_Deserter in

when most people think of "cult" they think of the people's temple, the branch davidians, or heaven's gate.

many also want to put jehovah's witnesses, mormons, and scientologists into this group.

i don't agree with that because there is one main difference between true cults and high-control groups like jws:.

B_Deserter

As a child I was always told by my parents to be ready to "obey Jehovah" because the society may ask us to do something that we won't want to do, like drop everything and leave our homes. This is likely a way for the society to condition Jehovah's Witnesses into doing something that will seem very wrong to a lot of them. When that day comes, they'll be fully a cult to me.

69

Jehovah's Witnesses are not a cult and here's why I think so

by B_Deserter in

when most people think of "cult" they think of the people's temple, the branch davidians, or heaven's gate.

many also want to put jehovah's witnesses, mormons, and scientologists into this group.

i don't agree with that because there is one main difference between true cults and high-control groups like jws:.

B_Deserter

Having read some of the replies, a lot of people seem to be of the mistaken belief that if JWs are not a cult, that must mean they're a-ok. Mormons do everything JWs do, cutting off their members from society, deeming the outside world as "of the devil," hiding the true history of the church from members, and even having bedroom laws and prying elders. They even go a step further with the temple underwear thing. You don't have to be a cult to be dangerous. I just think the traditional way the term "cult" has been applied doesn't really fit with the Witnesses. The elders aren't going to raid your house looking for contraband like R-rated movies, cigarettes, and pornography are they? They tell you how to dress and groom yourself but don't stand there and force you to shave your stubble every morning, do they? Yes, you can be ostracized for doing such things, but you're not physically prevented from doing so. You can still watch R-Rated movies fairly easily. Again, that doesn't mean I'm excusing their behavior. I agree it's wrong and does a lot of damage. The Ex-Amish experience many of the same things we do when leaving their group, and have an even worse time adjusting than we do. They can't even drive cars or even know the value of money (you aren't allowed to keep money until you're a male 18 and up). How many people have you heard running around calling the Amish a cult? Not too many.

All I'm saying is you can't just throw Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormon, and the Amish in the same category as the People's Temple or the Manson Family. They're destructive for their own reasons, yes, but to me calling JWs a cult is like calling an earthquake a tidal wave.

69

Jehovah's Witnesses are not a cult and here's why I think so

by B_Deserter in

when most people think of "cult" they think of the people's temple, the branch davidians, or heaven's gate.

many also want to put jehovah's witnesses, mormons, and scientologists into this group.

i don't agree with that because there is one main difference between true cults and high-control groups like jws:.

B_Deserter

When most people think of "cult" they think of The People's Temple, the Branch Davidians, or Heaven's Gate. Many also want to put Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, and Scientologists into this group. I don't agree with that because there is one main difference between true cults and high-control groups like JWs:
Cults (in the modern sense) not only isolate their followers mentally, but also physically. Cult members typically live in a communal setting. In extreme cases, they're relocated to an isolated patch of wilderness such as what happened in Jonestown. In addition to extreme social pressure to conform, menial day-to-day tasks are strictly monitored and rules are enforced.
Jehovah's Witnesses differ from this cult behavior because their followers live among normal society. The isolation is only mental, and even though there is still extremely strong emotional pressure to stay, no one is physically prevented from leaving the group. There are rules (or "principles") for minor facets of life such as dress, grooming, behavior, etc., in the Jehovah's Witness religion, too, but most of these rules are not (and cannot be) enforced in any physical sense.

5

Skeptics Guide to the Universe

by catbert in

do any of you listen to the "skeptics guide to the universe" podcast?.

http://www.theskepticsguide.org/.

its a great podcast that encourages critical thinking.

B_Deserter

The latest episode talks about the death of the JW mother in the UK.