Posts by Pallbearer

14

Holding hands during prayer.

by greenhornet in

i remember with some jw family's during prayer every one would hold hands around the table.

i think it is like a cult or some pagan practice.

now that i am out of the box looking in, i find this practice weird.

Pallbearer

The person who studied with me was one that practiced holding hands at the dinner table during a prayer prior to eating the meal.

4

Critiquing an article out of the June 2006 Awake!

by Pallbearer in

url for article:http://www.watchtower.org/e/200606b/article_01.htm.

the short article noted above appeared in the june 2006 issue of awake!

although i think the author did a good job in general i totally disagree with the following three things that were said:(a) by asserting their independence, adam and eve irreparably damaged their relationship with jehovah (b) and inflicted sinas imprint upon their organism, right to its genetic foundations.

Pallbearer

URL for article:http://www.watchtower.org/e/200606b/article_01.htm

The short article noted above appeared in the June 2006 issue of Awake! Although I think the author did a good job in general I totally disagree with the following three things that were said:

(a) By asserting their independence, Adam and Eve irreparably damaged their relationship with Jehovah (b) and inflicted sin’s imprint upon their organism, right to its genetic foundations. (c) Jehovah purposed to make it possible for the offspring of Adam and Eve to be freed from sin’s deadly grip.

With regards to the "a" part: We notice the author argues that there is no hope left for Adam and Eve. So the official position of the Watchtower Society is that Adam and Eve will NOT receive a resurrection. However, there is nothing in the Biblical account that suggests Adam and Eve were irreconcilable. With regards to the "b" part: The author claims that the tendency to sin was passed down to everyone by means of genetics. Actually, our genes have nothing to do with the shortcomings that we commit. The quality of parental guidance and education has everything to do with it. With regards to the "c" part: Once again it is implied that Adam and Eve will not receive another chance at life. There is nothing to suggest that Adam and Eve merited being thrown into the "lake of fire" along with Satan. (Revelation 20:10) The lake of fire is a symbol for eternal destruction, where only irreconcilable people are sent. Do you agree or disagree with me?

29

What I Learned from Bro Lett's DC Talk

by Rohag in

what i learned/derived from steven lett's dc talk (thanks again, ynot, for providing access to the .mp3 files!).

brother lett - or the committee that produced the talk - really loves food metaphors.well-dressed people, especially children, produce a good witness.if you're an apostate, chances are bad conduct/secret sin/moral depravity made you that way.

apostasy is usually founded on sin and rarely on conviction.the bible is an insufficient - or overly cumbersome - guide to godly conduct.

Pallbearer

No other religious organization is bearing a world-wide witness to the Kingdom established in the heavens in 1914.

What a sad statement for anyone to make! I went to meetings for almost 10 years before I realized that the 1914 doctrine was a misconception.

24

SCANNED ARTICLE ON BLOOD FRACTIONS 'WORKBOOK'

by Mary in

i'm not sure if this has ever been posted, but here's the uh "workbook" that all jws are given regarding blood fractions.

of course, the hypocrisy shines through as when it asks "are fractions also covered by the command to abstain from blood?

we cannot say" and "your decisions should be your own and should not be based on someone else's conscience.

Pallbearer

still_in74 said:

Therefore the jewish law on abstaining from blood was the context in which they were speaking. DONT EAT BLOOD FROM A SLAUGHTERED ANIMAL. GIVE THE DEAD ANIMALS BLOOD BACK TO JEHOVAH ....
This was means to remind the Jews that they had taken a life that jehovah had created. It was to remind them of the sanctity of life and the giver of it.
Blood transfusions have nothing to do with the taking of life ....

Exactly! I had reached the same conclusions myself before reading what you had to say, actually quite some time ago. Isn't that interesting?!

24

SCANNED ARTICLE ON BLOOD FRACTIONS 'WORKBOOK'

by Mary in

i'm not sure if this has ever been posted, but here's the uh "workbook" that all jws are given regarding blood fractions.

of course, the hypocrisy shines through as when it asks "are fractions also covered by the command to abstain from blood?

we cannot say" and "your decisions should be your own and should not be based on someone else's conscience.

Pallbearer

How anyone can accept parts of blood (fractions) and say they have abstained from blood is beyond me. What would the WTS say about what I just said? Does anyone here know?
"Can we see you in the back room for a little chat brother?"

Sorry for not making myself more clear. What I meant to ask was, since "Jehovah's Witnesses believe that it is not possible to abstain from blood and accept blood transfusions" how do they go about explaining that it is possible to abstain from blood and accept blood fractions? Anyone know for sure how they explain this? My guess would be that it has to do with not being a "primary component of blood". Would that be how they would explain it? But still, even as the Our Kingdom Ministry said, "Blood fractions are elements from blood...." So I ask: How can anyone accept parts of blood and say they have not taken blood? True, they have not taken WHOLE blood, but they have taken blood just the same because the fractions are part of the blood.

24

SCANNED ARTICLE ON BLOOD FRACTIONS 'WORKBOOK'

by Mary in

i'm not sure if this has ever been posted, but here's the uh "workbook" that all jws are given regarding blood fractions.

of course, the hypocrisy shines through as when it asks "are fractions also covered by the command to abstain from blood?

we cannot say" and "your decisions should be your own and should not be based on someone else's conscience.

Pallbearer

"Are fractions also covered by the command to abstain from blood? We cannot say."

How anyone can accept parts of blood (fractions) and say they have abstained from blood is beyond me. What would the WTS say about what I just said? Does anyone here know?

62

Society to start laminating paper backed publications

by Lady Zombie in

at the wednesday night ministry school meeting, a letter from the society was read announcing that wtbts paperbacked publications will begin to be laminated.

according to the letter, this "will save approximately 2 million dollars per year," "lengthen the life of the publications," and "increase the attractiveness" of the publications.. so there's that.. .

also, will someone please explain to me why 85% of the congregation started smiling and nodding at this.. i sometimes think that headquarters could send the congregations boxes of turds and the jws would act like it was the best thing ever..

Pallbearer

Pocket Books Spiral Bound

This is a spiral binding of the Pocket Books. The book also comes with an appropriate bookmark that matches the theme of the book. If you would like your initials on the front inside cover, add .75.
PBDSB Pay Attention to Daniel's Prophecy 10.00
PBCSB Is There A Creator Who Cares About You? 10.00
PBISB Isaiah's Prophecy - Light For All Mankind [Volume 1] 10.00
PBISB Isaiah's Prophecy - Light For All Mankind [Volume 2] 10.00
http://www.jpproductions.com/html/daniel.html

Well now, haven't we got a racket going at http://www.jpproductions.com/html/daniel.html. Apply lamination to front and back covers of paperback book; punch holes in book with a Comb Binding Machine; insert plastic comb; advertise it on the Internet for $10.00; then start hauling the $$$ to the bank. Talking about a scheme! This is clearly a case of exploiting religion in order to make money.

51

Embarassed at school for being a Witness - Did this happen to you?

by Witness 007 in

when they played the national anthem everyone stood up...except afew of us witness kids who stood out like a saw thumb....a brother two rows ahead of me had a teacher physically drag him to his feet as he struggled to explain himself...i would sweat like a pig as others pointed and laught and told me off...from then on i would hide in the toilet till i heard the anthem finish then come out.. then theirs birthday holidays, sex education, religious studies which i wanted to do since i would be a star but i was banned by my family.. do you have an embarassing hide like a rat in the toilet moment..

Pallbearer

Mysterious said:

I remember there was a bit of a fuss here with two camps -- one stood for the anthem and the other did not.

"A bit of a fuss here"? That's interesting! Do you mean to say that there was a disagreement on this issue between people of the SAME congregation?

51

Embarassed at school for being a Witness - Did this happen to you?

by Witness 007 in

when they played the national anthem everyone stood up...except afew of us witness kids who stood out like a saw thumb....a brother two rows ahead of me had a teacher physically drag him to his feet as he struggled to explain himself...i would sweat like a pig as others pointed and laught and told me off...from then on i would hide in the toilet till i heard the anthem finish then come out.. then theirs birthday holidays, sex education, religious studies which i wanted to do since i would be a star but i was banned by my family.. do you have an embarassing hide like a rat in the toilet moment..

Pallbearer

Annointeds Daughter and AnnOMaly:

Thanks for the references that each of you provided. I reviewed all 3 of them (from out of the 1960, 1974, and 2002 Watchtower magazines.

The 1960 issue:

According to custom, one indicates that he is in sympathy with the sentiments of this song merely by standing [rising]. This fact was highlighted by the action of certain Allied officers who refused to stand at the playing of the German national anthem some time after World War II. Since the Christian is not in sympathy with the sentiments of any national anthem of this old world, he may not give others the impression that he is by rising when it is being played or sung.

The 1974 issue:

Frequently, the practice is for all in attendance at a flag-salute ceremony [Pledge of Allegiance] to stand and personally salute the flag as a pledge of allegiance to this image of the State. In such a situation the mere act of standing likely is not in itself viewed as an act of worship. Therefore, many true Christians have seen no objection to standing respectfully, but not saluting and saying the pledge. ....
With regard to the national anthem, sometimes those in a group are expected to stand and sing. This situation, then, would be comparable to what was just mentioned regarding a national flag. However, more often the audience is expected merely to stand while the anthem is played or while it is sung by one person (a soloist) but not by all. In this case, one’s standing would denote approval of the words and sentiments expressed in the song.

The 2002 issue:

When national anthems are played, usually all a person has to do to show that he shares the sentiments of the song is to stand up. In such cases, Christians remain seated. If they are already standing when the national anthem is played, however, there is no need for them to take the special action of sitting down. It is not as though they had specifically chosen to stand for the anthem. On the other hand, if a group are expected to stand and sing, then merely standing up out of respect but not singing would not constitute sharing in the sentiments of the song.

Insofar as the 3 references above are concerned, only the 2002 issue had anything to say about a person "already standing" when the national anthem began, and in such a case there would be no need to sit down.

So I think that this is the 'change in view' that you referred to earlier. However, I'm not certain that one could correctly call it a "change in view". For it to be a change in view, wouldn't the WTS had to have first taught that a JW should not remain standing if he happened to be standing when the anthem began? If the WTS never taught that, then there hasn't been a "change in view" then, has there? Perhaps the word "clarification" is more in order?

By the way, AD, in answer to your question: "What was your experience?" I was 25 years old before coming in contact with the WTS, so I never faced the neutrality issue during my school years. To tell you the truth, I can't really remember an instance when any of my teachers had the class recite the pledge of allegience. I don't think that we ever did that in the schools I went to. Nor can I remember ever being at school and hearing the national anthem played. Perhaps they both happened, and I've just forgotten. It has been a long, long time since I was in school.

Thanks again for the references. I was able to look them up on my 2006 edition of the WT Library.

51

Embarassed at school for being a Witness - Did this happen to you?

by Witness 007 in

when they played the national anthem everyone stood up...except afew of us witness kids who stood out like a saw thumb....a brother two rows ahead of me had a teacher physically drag him to his feet as he struggled to explain himself...i would sweat like a pig as others pointed and laught and told me off...from then on i would hide in the toilet till i heard the anthem finish then come out.. then theirs birthday holidays, sex education, religious studies which i wanted to do since i would be a star but i was banned by my family.. do you have an embarassing hide like a rat in the toilet moment..

Pallbearer

Annointeds Daughter said:

I remember being very disappointed when the WT changed the view about the national anthem. Originally we needed to remain seated during it. Then, in the Revelation book p. 196, they presented an illustration of a JW's kid respectfully standing up during the national anthem or Pledge of Alliance, but not placing his right hand over his heart. Where I grew up, the only requirement when listening to the national anthem was to stand up, we weren't required to place our hand over our heart. If the WT was OK with this, then I shouldn't have had to face so many embarrassing moments during my school age years. I'm still upset about this!
AD

And StAnn asked:

They changed their on the national anthem? When? I need scans!!!!

I think AD is likely mistaken with regards to any "change in view about the national anthem"; and also with regards to the illustration in the Revelation book. Although the publication doesn't appear to say a single word with reference to that illustration, I get the feeling that the kids are reciting the Pledge of Alliance rather than singing the national anthem.

I sometimes attend sporting events where the national anthem is played over a loud speaker, but the only way the audience participates is by standing and removing their hats. Most place their hats over their hearts. However, none of the audience sings. Those without hats simply stand. Essentially, then, participating in the national anthem involves the act of *standing*. Therefore, JWs cannot *stand* for the national anthem.

So I don't believe that there has been any "change in view about the national anthem". If someone knows better than me, I'd be happy to have you correct me.