Metamorphosis

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Posts by Metamorphosis

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  57

  Is There a Celebrity that You Resemble ?

  by flipper in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  guys and gals, here we go !

  i started a serious thred tonight, now it's time to relax and have some fun!

  i think we have all been a bit stressed what with trevor gate and all, so it's friday night, let's loosen up a bit ?

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  Metamorphosis

  i've been told by a ton of people i look like jason statham (of transporter movie fame).
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  38

  It seems I have my JW brother back

  by MegaDude in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  with the shit going down on this board as of late i'd like to post something really good that happened to me lately.

  i got my brother jw brother back.

  back in 2001 of this same month i posted about letting jw relatives go because i got tired of the pain of hoping those relationships would be restored when it seemed impossible.

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  Metamorphosis

  Wow - incredible. Congrats - we can all have hope that slowly, the snares the WT puts down, will be broken free of. A huge step for him to take - and a huge part of your life back; awesome.

  Morph
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  9

  NEW FLIP FLOP Alert! My Research on New Leaven Understanding

  by Metamorphosis in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  earlier there was a thread stating at the annual meeting a new understanding of the leaven in matthew 13:33 was to be announced indicating it no longer would be understood to mean something corrupt but rather something righteous.

  this led me to research (just using the wt cd) what the past thoughts on it had been - this is not the first reversal on the understanding - first see what the watchtower had to say in the late 1800's (as stated in the 75 watchtower):.

  *** w75 10/1 pp.

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  Metamorphosis

  BTW - here is the link to the original thread discussing the change:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/144583/1.ashx
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  8

  THE HUSBAND STORE

  by bikerchic in

  1. social
  2. humour

  floor 1 - these men have jobs.. .

  she goes to the fourth floor and the sign reads:.

  there are no men on this floor.

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  Metamorphosis

  loved it!
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  9

  NEW FLIP FLOP Alert! My Research on New Leaven Understanding

  by Metamorphosis in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  earlier there was a thread stating at the annual meeting a new understanding of the leaven in matthew 13:33 was to be announced indicating it no longer would be understood to mean something corrupt but rather something righteous.

  this led me to research (just using the wt cd) what the past thoughts on it had been - this is not the first reversal on the understanding - first see what the watchtower had to say in the late 1800's (as stated in the 75 watchtower):.

  *** w75 10/1 pp.

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  Metamorphosis

  Earlier there was a thread stating at the annual meeting a new understanding of the leaven in Matthew 13:33 was to be announced indicating it no longer would be understood to mean something corrupt but rather something righteous. This led me to research (just using the WT CD) what the past thoughts on it had been - this is not the first reversal on the understanding - first see what the Watchtower had to say in the late 1800's (as stated in the 75 Watchtower):

  *** w75 10/1 pp. 590-591 pars. 9 - Things Which the “Kingdom of the Heavens” Is Like ***

  9 Back in the issue of Zion’s Watch Tower dated April 1881, on page 5, there appeared a contribution by J. H. Paton, on the parable of the leaven. In the course of his discussion he said: This work of progression and glorious success, seems to be illustrated by the Saviour’s parable, in which He compared the kingdom of heaven to leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal until the whole was leavened. Matt. 13:33. A very plausible and we will add, forcible objection to this application of the parable, is based on the fact that leaven of bread and of doctrine are spoken of in the Bible as elements of impurity and of corruption. Would the Saviour represent the kingdom of heaven by an element and process of corruption? We understand the Saviour here uses one feature of the leaven only, in His illustration, that is its permeating power. It does not cease until the work is done, so God’s kingdom will not cease its operations until the curse is removed.

  However there was a reversal of that thinking by the early 1900's:

  10 However, Zion’s Watch Tower, under date of May 15, 1900, page 154, took exception to that view. Under the subheading “The Parable of the Leaven,” it said: “Leaven represents corruption throughout the Scriptures: In every other instance of its Scriptural use it is represented as an evil, an impurity, something that is defiling. . . . It would not seem reasonable that our Lord should use the word leaven here as Christian people generally suppose, in a good sense, as implying some grace of the holy spirit. On the contrary, we recognize consistency in all of his teachings, and we may be as sure that he would not use leaven as a symbol of righteousness as that he would not use leprosy as a symbol of holiness.”

  11 The Watch Tower, under date of June 15, 1910, page 205, pursued that same line of thought. It said, under the heading “Leaven Hidden in the Meal,” the following: “The parable of the ‘leaven’ (v. 33) illustrates the process by which, as was foretold, the church would get into the wrong condition. As a woman would take her batch of flour for baking and put leaven (yeast) in it and the result would be that the mass would become leavened, so it would be with the church of Christ; the food
  of the entire household would become leavened or corrupted. Every portion would become more or less vitiated with the leaven of false doctrines which would permeate the entire mass. Thus today nearly every doctrine inculcated by Jesus and his apostles has become more or less perverted or twisted by the errors of the dark ages.”—See also The Watch Tower as of June 15, 1912, pages 198, 199, under the heading “Parable of the Leaven.”

  The first reference i found in an actual WT on the CD however (meaning had to be at least 1950 or after) seems to indicate there had been yet another reversal between the early 1900's and 1960 - it would be interesting to know when that happened:

  *** w62 4/1 p. 204 par. 12 The Family Circle in These Last Days ***
  Thus since 1931 a “great crowd” of honest men and women have come into active association with this enlarged society. The leaven of righteousness of this God-approved nucleus of anointed ones has permeated to the far reaches of this new social spectacle on the world scene in 185 lands. (Matt. 13:33)

  However then in 1975 came a whole article dealing with how the leaven HAD to represent something corrupt - there couldn't be any way it was something good (read the whole article if you get a chance to see the full logic):

  *** w75 10/1 pp. 590-591 pars. 9-11 Things Which the “Kingdom of the Heavens” Is Like ***

  LEAVEN AND WINE
  12 Now, if J. H. Paton, like the Watch Tower editor C. T. Russell, were alive at the time, he might have objected to those articles in the Watch Tower issues of 1900, 1910 and 1912. He might have insisted that The Watch Tower stick to the “one feature of the leaven only, in [Jesus’] illustration, that is its permeating power.” As the permeating power lies in the fermentation that is caused, he might have argued that fermentation is fermentation, something to be viewed objectively. So he might have referred to Matthew 9:17, where Jesus says: “Neither do people put new wine into old wineskins; but if they do, then the wineskins burst and the wine spills out and the wineskins are ruined. But people put new wine into new wineskins, and both things are preserved.”—Also, Mark 2:22; Luke 5:37, 38. 13 The still-continuing fermentation of the new wine causes gas bubbles and bursts the old, nonresilient wineskins. The wine fermentation operates to a good end, and so here fermentation is used in a good way and symbolizes something good. But does that argue that the fermentation caused by leaven is used as a symbol of something good in the parable of the woman that hid leaven in three large measures of flour until the whole mass was fermented? And so is there an exception or two to the Bible’s use of leaven as a symbol of what is bad and wicked? Does the Bible use leaven as a symbol in a twofold way, both as a symbol of what is good and righteous and also as a symbol of what is bad and wicked? 14 How, though, can it be rightly argued that the Bible uses the leaven of dough in such a twofold way, when, at the celebration of the Passover and of the seven-day festival that followed, wine was allowed to be drunk whereas all leaven of bread was forbidden, banned, under pain of death for a violator? (Lev. 23:5-13; Luke 22:7-20) So, does the Bible treat all fermentations and their permeative power alike? Does the Bible treat only the permeating power caused by fermentation as the one factor that is to be considered, regardless of what causes the fermentation? The Scriptural answer is No! Otherwise, we would not find the apparent discrepancy at the celebration of the Passover and of the week-long festival of unleavened bread that followed the Passover. 15 It is apparent, therefore, that fermentation with its permeating power is, in itself, not the determining factor so that it occupies a status either good or bad as regards its symbolical meaning. Rather, the thing that is added to promote the fermentation is the determining factor. In the Holy Scriptures, the fermentation (as a factor) is not isolated from what causes it. Consequently, the fermentation that is naturally caused in wine making is not classified as being the same as the fermentation that is promoted in flour dough by an additive, yeast, namely leaven or sour dough. Hence anyone’s referring to the fermenting new wine put in new wineskins in order for him to show that leaven (sour dough) added in bread making is a symbol of what is good and righteous fails to make the point. His argument is not Bible-based. For this reason the argument used by J. H. Paton in the April 1881 issue of Zion’s Watch Tower does not hold good. The inspired Scriptures do oblige us to make a distinction in the case of leaven (sour dough) as a symbol. Accordingly, the parable of the leaven is not an illustration on the positive side; to the contrary, it is on the negative side. But we shall present more on this matter of leaven later on in our discussion.

  So if it is really true that they once again will refer to this as not corrupt in Matthew 13:33 but something positive it will be the third time they've decided to take this view and second time they discarded the view of corruptness. Add this to your lists of flip flops - i haven't seen it before on one.

  Morph - (now i'm just hungry for some homemade bread)
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  20

  Comments You Will Not Hear at the WT Study (10/15 Teach Children)

  by WT Comments in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  soliciting your comments as well!

  please take a moment to post a comment, even if brief.

  share your experience and keep the topic active.. .

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  Metamorphosis

  i've grown to hate remarks like:

  train your children to love their Christian brothers and sisters

  because they don't really mean 'Christian' they mean Jehovah's Witness. They should truly be taught to show love to all but instead they are taught to view them as lesser if they don't have a JW label.

  Morph
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  39

  I have a scan of the 2008 Watchtower

  by RisingEagle in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have a scan of the cover of the 2008 watchtower witling only edition that i got from an active jw relative earlier today if anyone is interested in seeing it.

  i don't know how to post pictures without them being the type you have to click on to enlarge.

  if someone wants to tell me how to do it i can post it or if anyone has access to a photobucket account i can e-mail the pic to you.

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  Metamorphosis

  Just reading the titles and they're already hitting the idea hard that 'you are a select and privileged group'.

  Just in the one mag you have titles containing 'Counted Worthy' twice and 'Rightly Disposed' once. You know now that the public isn't supposed to have access they will hit harder on this line of reasoning that you are special and you better realize it and stay within the confines of the org.

  They just make people afraid to leave and live off of it. Well I 'count' myself blessed that i have 'disposed' of them.

  Morph
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  20

  Sorry, I gotta borrow this topic from another site.... Some answers please.

  by NotaNess in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  why do jws have the memorial anyways?

  they preach that jesus said , do this until i return.

  the jws say he returned in 1914, so what gives here anyway?

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  Metamorphosis

  A little off topic - but did it ever bother anyone else to hear JW's saying we're celebrating the Memorial or Christ death..... i always tried to use words like commemorating or observing.... i mean according to Christian teaching it was something needed for our salvation and important, but i'm sure women don't celebrate having their breast removed due to cancer or people don't celebrate a soldier's death while protecting their country..... dunno, maybe just me, but using that word in connection with Christ's death just bugs the heck out of me.

  Morph
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  7

  Serious question about WT policy on anointed immortality.

  by marmot in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  someone correct me if i'm not entirely clear on any possible "new light" on this issue, but i got to wondering about something that the watchtower teaches that seems downright frightening.

  okay, so the "anointed" are supposed to be whisked right up to heaven after death, "in the twinkling of an eye" as the scripture goes, to an immortal life serving as princes with jesus and co-ruling with him for the millennial reign.

  am i correct so far?

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  Metamorphosis

  Jesus’ corulers, on the other hand, receive the gift of immortality, which is proof of Jehovah’s unshakable confidence in their faithfulness.

  and this is really funny in the light of the fact that some of the 'annointed' have to be replaced due to unfaithfulness according to the society...
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  15

  "Generation" - Just Making It Up?

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i think you have to wonder if the watchtower society has degenerated to the point where they don't.

  even bother to research the bilge they print and they just make up whatever gets them by.. what did jesus mean by "this generation"?

  anyone can read matt.

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  Metamorphosis

  did i miss a new understanding of generation recently? what magazine are we referring to here?