Mebaqqer2

Joined

• started 13 topics
• posted 100 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Mebaqqer2

• 
  6

  Chance find at the flea market

  by Mebaqqer2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i found something at the flea market today...two, not bound volumes...but individual magazines (watchtower and awake for the year 1974) each in a blue bundling folder.

  the folders have "watchtower" and "awake" embossed on the front and in gold lettering on the spine with "watch tower bible & tract society" at the bottom of the spine.

  who ever put these together, however, put the entire year of awake!

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Mebaqqer2

  Let me try that...it worked! Now my question is, should I sell them individually or in the set? (joking...maybe)

  -Mebaqqer
• 
  14

  J11

  by Mebaqqer2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i just wanted to relate to those who care that i recently obtain a copy of the work cited as j11 by the new world translation.

  if anyone is curious about how a certian passage reads, want a scan, etc.

  (my new blog-> http://mebaqqer.wordpress.com/ ).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Mebaqqer2

  Just some additional information:

  The Watchtower of November 15, 1946 has an article discussing the use of the divine name in the Christian New Testament. I believe that this article was written during the time that the translation work for the New World Translation was underway. Notice:

  Furthermore, among the languages into which the Greek Scriptures have been translated is the classical ancient Hebrew itself. In the year 1877 the "Hebrew New Testament"’ was published as translated by Franz Delitzsch, who was of Hebrew descent, and it had a wide circulation in Galatia and Russia. In this Delitzsch translation the name Jehovah actually occurs in its original Hebrew form 17 times in Matthew, 10 thnes in Mark, 37 times in Luke, 4 times in John, and 36 times in Acts, and 76 times from Romans to Revelation, or 180 times in all, not counting in the four occurrences of the exclamation "Hallelujah!" In the year 1891 the third edition of Salkinson-Ginsburg’s "Hebrew New Testament" was published, and it corresponds with Delitzsch’s translation in literally using the name Jehovah in original Hebrew form from Matthew to Revelation. -p. 378

  Why do I believe that this article was written during the time the translation was underway? For one, it fits with the timeline for the translation as given by the Society. Secondly, it is hard to imagine someone taking the time to find the occurences in Delitzsch (= J17) of the Tetragrammation for no reason, but when we realize that this must have been done for the translation, then it would make sense. Finally, it is interesting to note that the paragraph mentions Salkinson-Ginsburg's third edition (= J18). Why not his first or second which also contained the Tetragrammaton? When we turn to the Forward of the New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures we notice that there too the third edition is mentioned as the oldest they had utilized. Finally, the whole article seems to be the nucleus for the argument found in the Forward to NWTCGS. If you find none of this pursuasive, just write it up to a hunch on my part...

  Anyways, that is not what I was going to discuss, I was going to show Narkissos what the WTBTS has said about Shem-Tov's Matthew, but after I posted I saw he already found the information.

  -Mebaqqer
• 
  6

  Chance find at the flea market

  by Mebaqqer2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i found something at the flea market today...two, not bound volumes...but individual magazines (watchtower and awake for the year 1974) each in a blue bundling folder.

  the folders have "watchtower" and "awake" embossed on the front and in gold lettering on the spine with "watch tower bible & tract society" at the bottom of the spine.

  who ever put these together, however, put the entire year of awake!

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Mebaqqer2

  I found something at the flea market today...two, not bound volumes...but individual magazines (Watchtower and Awake for the year 1974) each in a blue bundling folder. The folders have "Watchtower" and "Awake" embossed on the front and in gold lettering on the spine with "Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society" at the bottom of the spine. Who ever put these together, however, put the entire year of Awake! in upside down. Anyone know what the proper name for these binders are and how to open them so I can put the Awake! magazines in the right way?

  Mebaqqer
• 
  14

  J11

  by Mebaqqer2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i just wanted to relate to those who care that i recently obtain a copy of the work cited as j11 by the new world translation.

  if anyone is curious about how a certian passage reads, want a scan, etc.

  (my new blog-> http://mebaqqer.wordpress.com/ ).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Mebaqqer2

  bereanbiblestudent,

  Do you happen to have a scan of the page from the German edition of the New World Translation with references for the list of J-sources? I believe that I have got most of their names, but some have been elusive.

  I found J24 and J25 some time ago and have included their readings into what I have been working on.

  I do have access to an edition of J18 as an electronic edition which is part of Bibleworks. However, this edition represents a later reworking of the text and thus does not reflect the original work of Salkinson-Ginsburg. The changes for the most part represent a reworking of the text to make it conform with the Textus Receptus. If any are interested, I can produce a list of several of these readings.

  Mebaqqer
• 
  14

  J11

  by Mebaqqer2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i just wanted to relate to those who care that i recently obtain a copy of the work cited as j11 by the new world translation.

  if anyone is curious about how a certian passage reads, want a scan, etc.

  (my new blog-> http://mebaqqer.wordpress.com/ ).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Mebaqqer2

  Hello all,

  I just wanted to relate to those who care that I recently obtain a copy of the work cited as J 11 by the New World Translation. If anyone is curious about how a certian passage reads, want a scan, etc. please let me know how I can help you.

  -Mebaqqer

  (My new blog-> http://mebaqqer.wordpress.com/ )
• 
  13

  What is the Firmament?

  by VM44 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in genesis the firmament is first mentioned.. god said, "let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

  and god made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

  and god called the firmament heaven.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Mebaqqer2

  Just to let you know...
  
  "And birds could later be said to fly in 'the expanse of the heavens,' as stated at Genesis 1:20."
  
  Actually, Genesis 1:20 does not say that the birds fly "in" the expanse (raqia') of the heavens, it says that the birds fly literally "above the earth in front of/above the surface ('al-p'ney) of the raqia' of the heavens." "in the raqia'" would have been bireqia' see Gen. 1:14, 15, 17; Ps. 150:1.
  
  Mebaqqer
• 
  6

  J28 reference?

  by Mebaqqer2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have seen on several websites lists of sources for readings in the new world translation which seem to have been cut-and-pasted from the wtlib cd.

  i noticed, however, that some of these lists give an additional j-source (j28) not found in my english editions.

  (j28 is said to be the new covenant commonly called the new testament: peshitta aramaic text with a hebrew translation.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Mebaqqer2

  Doug said
  
  I wonder if the WTS's action is therefore a support for [the claim that the New Testament was originally written in Aramaic]? It would be interesting to pursue, given the fact that the WTS NT inserts Hebrew letters into a text written in Greek letters. Are they now saying that the original that provides them with YHWH were Aramaic letters? But then how can they cite the LXX as a support for YHWH, when that was written in Greek? What a minefield.
  
  I think the mindfield is cleared up once you realize that all the J-sources are used, not as the basis for "restoring" the Divine Name into the New Testament, but to confirm decisions already made by the translators. I mean, J21 is an English source and yet they are not by its usage saying that the New Testament was originally written in English! The J-sources then, only serve to justify their translation, not serve as the basis for it.
  
  This becomes apparent when discussing mundane examples. For example, John 8:44 in the original 1950 release was as follows:
  
  because he is a liar and the father of the lie(a)
  
  (a) the lie, J17; it, ? B Vg
  
  Here we see an example of where "of it" has been made explicit. I doubt any translator would have argued against the NWT that this represents a distortion of the meaning here and some might even translate as the NWT does for clarity. Slight paraphrasing from time to time is sometimes necessary when translating. What is interesting is that the NWT translators felt they needed to explain themselves here and actually look for justification in their textual sources. Yet any textual critic here would judge J17 as a having a paraphrasic reading here to make "of it" explicit and not a real variant as implied by the 1950 NWT footnote which sets one reading against another. It is no wonder that the later revisions handle this much better and box the words "the lie" and say "lit. 'it', and yet they still cite sources, J17, 22, to somehow bring validation to their paraphrase that is wholly unnecessary.
  
  Mebaqqer
• 
  6

  J28 reference?

  by Mebaqqer2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have seen on several websites lists of sources for readings in the new world translation which seem to have been cut-and-pasted from the wtlib cd.

  i noticed, however, that some of these lists give an additional j-source (j28) not found in my english editions.

  (j28 is said to be the new covenant commonly called the new testament: peshitta aramaic text with a hebrew translation.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Mebaqqer2

  Following the cue from Possible, I have tracked down the Spanish version to find out more about this source. Here is a list of the places cited for J28:
  
  MATTHEW
  1:20+ Ky; J3,4,7-14,16-18,22-24,28
  1:22 Ky; J1-4,7-14,16-18,22-24,26,28
  1:24 Ky; J1-4,7-14,16-18,22-24,28
  2:13 Ky; J1-4,6-14,16-18,22-24,28
  2:15 Ky; J1,3,4,6-14,16-18,22-24,28
  2:19 Ky; J1-4,6-14,16-18,22-24,28
  3:3 Ky; J1-4,7-14,16-18,20,22-24,26,28
  4:7 Ky; J1-14,16-18,20,22-24,28
  4:10 Ky; J1-14,16-18,20,22-24,28
  5:33* Ky; J1-4,7-14,16-18,22,23,28
  21:9 Ky; J1-14,16-18,20-24,28
  21:42 Ky; J1-4,7-14,16-18,20-24,28
  22:37 Ky; J1-14,16-18,20-24,28
  22:44 Ky; J1-14,16-18,20-24,28
  23:39 Ky; J1-14,16-18,21-24,28
  27:10 Ky; J1-4,7-14,16,17,22-24,28
  28:2 Ky; J1-4,7-13,16-18,22-24,28
  
  MARK
  1:3 Ky; J7-14,16-18,22-24,28
  5:19* Ky; J7-10,17,18,22,28
  11:9 Ky; J7,8,10-14,16-18,21-24,28
  12:11 Ky; J7-14,16-18,21-24,28
  12:29 Ky; J7-14,16-18,20-24,27,28
  12:29 Ky; J7-14,16-18,20-24,28
  12:30 Ky; J7-14,16-18,21-24,28
  12:36 Ky; J7-14,16-18,21-24,28
  13:20 Ky; J7,8,10,13,16-18,22-24,28
  
  LUKE
  1:6* Ky; J7-17,23,28
  1:9* Ky; J7-18,22,23,28
  1:11 Ky; J7-13,16-18,22-24,28
  1:15 Ky; J7,8,10-18,22,23,28
  1:16 Ky; J7-18,22-24,28
  1:17 Ky; J7-18,22-24,28
  1:25 Ky; J7-18,22,23,28
  1:32 Ky; J5-18,22-24,28
  1:38 Ky; J5,7-18,22-24,28
  1:45 Ky; J5-18,22-24,28
  1:46* Ky; J5-18,22,23,28
  1:66 Ky; J5-18,22-24,28
  1:68 Ky; J5-18,22-24,28
  1:76 Ky; J5-18,22-24,28
  2:9 Ky; J5,7,8,10-18,22-24,28
  2:15* Ky; J5,7,8,10-18,22,23,28
  2:22* Ky; J5-18,22,23,28
  2:23 Ky; J5-18,22-24,28
  2:23* Ky; J5-18,22,23,28
  2:24 Ky; J5-18,22-24,28
  2:26 Ky; J5-18,22-24,28
  2:39 Ky; J5-18,22-24,28
  3:4 Ky; J7-15,17,18,22-24,28
  4:8 Ky; J7-18,22-24,28
  4:12 Ky; J7-18,22-24,28
  4:19 Ky; J7-18,20,22-24,28
  5:17 Ky; J7-18,22-24,28
  10:27 Ky; J5-18,21-24,28
  13:35 Ky; J7-18,21-24,28
  19:38 Ky; J7-18,21-24,28
  20:37 Ky; J9,11-18,21-24,27,28
  20:42 Ky; J7-18,21-24,28
  
  JOHN
  1:23 Ky; J5-14,16-19,22-24,28
  12:13 Ky; J7-14,16-19,21-24,28
  12:38 Ky; J7-14,16-20,22-24,28
  
  ACTS
  2:20 Ky; J7,8,10-18,20,22-24,28
  2:21 Ky; J7,8,10-18,20,22-24,28
  2:25* Ky; J7,8,10-18,20,22,23,28
  2:34 Ky; J7,8,10-18,21-24,28
  3:19* Ky; J13-18,22,23,28
  3:22+ Ky; J7,8,10-18,20,22-24,28
  4:26* Ky; J7,8,10-18,20,22,23,28
  5:19 Ky; J7,8,10,13,15-18,22-24,28
  7:31 Ky; J11-18,22-24,28
  7:33* Ky; J11-18,22,23,28
  7:49 Ky; J11-18,20,22-24,28
  8:26 Ky; J7,8,10,13,15-18,22-24,28
  8:39 Ky; J13,15-18,22-24,28
  11:21 Ky; J7,8,10,13,15-18,22,23,28
  12:7 Ky; J7,8,10,13,15-18,22-24,28
  12:11* Ky; J7,8,10,13,15,16,18,23,28
  12:17* Ky; J7,8,10,28
  12:23 Ky; J7,8,10,13,15-18,22-24,28
  13:10* Ky; J7,8,10,13,15-18,22,23,28
  13:11 Ky; J7,8,10,15-18,22-24,28
  13:49* Ky; J7,8,10,13,15-18,22,23,28
  15:17* Ky; J11-18,22,23,28
  15:17 Ky; J7,8,10-18,20,22-24,28
  16:32+* Th; J7,8,10,17,18,22,23,28
  
  ROMANS
  9:29 Ky; J7,8,10-18,20,22-24,28
  10:13 Ky; J7,8,10,13-18,22-24,28
  11:34 Ky; J7,8,10,13-18,20,22-25,28
  14:11 Ky; J7,8,10-18,22-25,28
  15:11* Ky; J7,8,10-18,20,22,23,25,28
  
  1 CORINTHIANS
  1:31 Ky; J7,8,10-14,16-18,22-24,28
  2:16 Ky; J13,14,16-18,22-24,28
  3:20 Ky; J7,8,10-14,16-18,20,22-24,28
  4:4 Ky; J7,8,10,17,18,23,24,28
  4:19* Ky; J7,8,10,22,23,28
  7:17+* Ky; J28
  10:26* Ky; J7,8,10,11,13,14,16-18,20,22,23,28
  14:21 Ky; J7,8,10-14,16-18,22-24,28
  16:10 Ky; J7,8,10,13,14,16-18,24,28
  
  2 CORINTHIANS
  3:16 Ky; J7,8,13,14,16,22,24,28
  3:17* Ky; J7,8,13,14,16,28
  3:17 Ky; J7,8,13,14,16,22,24,28
  3:18 Ky; J7,8,13,14,16,22,24,28
  3:18 Ky; J7,8,13,14,16,22,24,28
  6:17 Ky; J7,8,11-14,16-18,22-24,28
  6:18 Ky; J7,8,11-14,16-18,22-24,28
  10:17 Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22-24,28
  10:18* Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22,23,28
  
  EPHESEANS
  2:21 Ky; J7,8,13,16-18,22-24,28
  5:19* Ky; J7,8,13,16,23,28
  
  COLOSENSES
  3:22+* Ky; J18,22,28
  
  2 TIMOTHY
  2:19 Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,20,22-24,28
  2:19 Ky; J18,22-24,28
  
  HEBREWS
  7:21 Ky; J3,7,8,11-18,20,22-24,28
  8:8 Ky; J3,7,8,11-18,20,22-24,28
  8:9 Ky; J3,7,8,11-18,20,22-24,28
  8:10 Ky; J3,7,8,11-18,20,22,24,28
  8:11* Ky; J3,7,8,11-18,20,22,23,28
  10:16 Ky; J3,7,8,11-18,22-24,28
  10:30 Ky; J3,7,8,11-18,20,22-24,28
  12:5 Ky; J7,8,11-18,20,22-24,28
  12:6 Ky; J3,7,8,11-18,20,22-24,28
  
  JAMES
  1:7* Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22,23,28
  3:9+* Ky; J18,23,28
  4:10 Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22,23,28
  4:15* Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22,23,28
  5:4 Ky; J7,8,11-14,16-18,22-24,28
  5:10 Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22-24,28
  5:11 Ky; J7,8,13,14,16,18,22-24,28
  5:11* Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22-24,28
  
  1 PETER
  3:12 Ky; J7,8,11-14,16-18,20,22-24,28
  3:12 Ky; J7,8,11-14,16-18,20,22,24,28
  
  2 PETER
  2:9 Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22-24,28
  3:8 Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22-24,28
  3:9 Ky; J7,8,13,16-18,22-24,28
  3:10 Ky; J7,8,13,16-18,22-24,28
  
  JUDE
  9+ Ky; J7,8,11-14,16-18,22-24,28
  14 Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22-24,28
  
  REVELATION
  1:8 Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22-24,28
  4:8 Ky; J7,8,11-14,16-18,22,24,28
  4:11* Ky; J7,8,13,14,16,18,28
  11:17 Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22,23,28
  15:3 Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22,23,28
  15:4 Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22,23,28
  16:7 Ky; J13,14,16-18,22,23,28
  18:8+ Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22-24,28
  19:6 Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22-24,28
  21:22* Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22,23,28
  22:5 Ky; J7,8,11-14,16-18,22-24,28
  22:6* Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22,24,28
  
  Beyond this, it is cited at:
  
  Luke 2:38 (“Dios”,? AB; VgSyp,s: “el Señor”; J5,7-17,28: “Jehová”) = Jehovah
  Acts 7:30 (“Un ángel”, P74?ABCVg; DSyp: “un ángel de[l] Señor”; J7,8,10-17,28: “el ángel de Jehová”) = the angel of Jehovah
  Acts 7:37 (“Dios”,? ABVg; CSyp: “El Señor Dios”; J7,8,10-17: “Jehová su Dios”; J28: “Jehová Dios”) = Jehovah God
  Acts 14:25 (“Palabra”, BD;? ACVgSyp: “palabra del Señor”; P74: “palabra de Dios”; J17,28: “palabra de Jehová”) = word of Jehovah
  
  I wonder why they have not updated this source in English versions. After all, it does give them "confirmation" for 1 Cor. 7:17. Thank you Possible for looking into this for me.
  
  Mebaqqer
• 
  6

  J28 reference?

  by Mebaqqer2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have seen on several websites lists of sources for readings in the new world translation which seem to have been cut-and-pasted from the wtlib cd.

  i noticed, however, that some of these lists give an additional j-source (j28) not found in my english editions.

  (j28 is said to be the new covenant commonly called the new testament: peshitta aramaic text with a hebrew translation.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Mebaqqer2

  Hello, I have seen on several websites lists of sources for readings in the New World Translation which seem to have been cut-and-pasted from the WTLIB CD. I noticed, however, that some of these lists give an additional J-source (J28) not found in my English editions. (J28 is said to be The New Covenant Commonly Called the New Testament: Peshitta Aramaic Text With a Hebrew Translation. Ed. The Aramaic Scriptures Research Society in Israel, Jerusalem: United Bible Societies, 1986.) All of the sites that refer to this J-source are not in English. (see for example http://espanol.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070514092334AAjG0ru [Spanish]; http://freeforumzone.leonardo.it/lofi/2-Timoteo-2-22-quelli-che-invocano-il-Signore-Ges-249-dimostrabile-/D6152004.html [Italian]) Thus, I assume that this is a source which was later utilized in some foreign language editions of the New World Translation. My question is, is this assumption correct? and if so where is it cited in support of the New World Translation's readings in those non-English editions? Mebaqqer
• 
  2

  partial translation of possible-san's page

  by Mebaqqer2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  well, everyone was wondering about what the japanese text said on the page possible-san referenced (http://godpresencewithin.web.fc2.com/pages/jw/akashijunzo.html) so i worked on translating it.

  i placed it here rather than his post as his post has ready scrolled out of the new topic area and i wasn't sure if anyone would see.

  anyways, here is the first part.... the words of junzo akashi.

  1. 
  2. 
• 

  Mebaqqer2

  Well, everyone was wondering about what the Japanese text said on the page possible-san referenced (http://godpresencewithin.web.fc2.com/pages/jw/akashijunzo.html) so I worked on translating it. I placed it here rather than his post as his post has ready scrolled out of the new topic area and I wasn't sure if anyone would see. Anyways, here is the first part...

  The Words of Junzo Akashi

  - Contents of the letter sent to president Nathan H Norr after World War II by the pre-war representative Junzo Akashi (July, 1889 – November 14, 1965) of the Japanese branch (Todai Company) of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society (Jehovah’s Witnesses) –

  (picture stuff omitted for now)

  Hikari Bulletin. Special Edition. 3 rd issue. July 15, 1947:

  1 . For at least the past ten years, I can not approve of the signs of progression in the explication of Biblical truths.

  2 . In regards to the present, the desperate claims for the campaign to recruit citizens [for God’s Kingdom] does not biblically conform with the so-called theocratic(1) establishment.

  3 . The policy of encouraging the so-called witnessingcampaign of God’s kingdom, in brief, is no more than for recruiting members into the Watchtower Society.

  4 . The guidelines of the headquarters, as concerns loyal Christians, causes (them) to live peacefully in a cheap, self consultative place outside of the sole standard specified in the Bible.

  5 . In spite of their own being conscience or not, the manufacturing of various personal rules and regulationssnatches away the freedom that has been awarded at long last to true Christians by means of the Lord Jesus and, with regards to the Watchtower headquarters, causes a result in which compulsion through blind obedience to their superiors to be apparent .

  6 . In spite of the headquarters currently teaching non-compromise with this world in regards to Watchtower followers, the actions of the headquarters itself show clear proof of compromise in regards to this world.

  7: The construction of the so-called “Gilead Seminary” was an absolutely rebellious reversal(2) to what is indicated in the Bible."

  (1) The Japanese word for "Theocratic" here is shinkenseiji. The bold emphasis from possible-san's page is only on part of this word, so I have tried to reproduce that emphasis here.

  (2) I could not figure out how to translate the word haihangyakkou accurately. This is actually a compounded word. haihan means "revolting; rebellion; going against; contradiction; antinomy" and gyakkou means "adverse; go backward; retrograde". "rebellious reversal" is the best I could to to make sense of the compounded idea.

  ...The words that follow will have to wait for another time as it would take me more time that I can devote right now.

  Mebaqqer