Posts by caliber

51

Adultery in the Bible

by BU2B in

jw
friends

i know that when you take a marriage vow, faithfulness is expected and either party going outside that bond is wrong.

however as i read the bible i seem to notice that in the old testament a woman having relations with anyone not her husband was adultery, however the only way a male can commit adultery is to have relations with another married woman, thereby infringing on another mans wife.

if a married man was to have relations with an unmarried woman or prostitute, this isnt considered adultery.

caliber

Did women have the right to divorce in earlier times according to the Bible ?

And he saith unto them: Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery." ( Mark 10: 11-12 )

The same thing is said by Paul in I Co 7: 13, where he advises Christian women who are already married to a non Christian man, not to divorce them, but keep their marriage united.

"And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him." ( I Co 7: 13 )

According to these two testimonies, it is evident that women had the right to divorce their husbands.

T he Bible writers of the Bible spoke in a general way, they didn't specify sex unnecessarily. In those times they said things such as: "If a man steals…", which also implied "If a woman steals…". It was not necessary to mention both sexes, as they tend to do now a day, for fear of being called sexist or chauvinist.

That's why in the Old Testament they have rules about divorce, and even though they only mention men, it is understood that it also refers to women.

Therefore, as a man could divorce his wife, a woman could divorce her husband. The proof is found in what our Lord says. Referring to what the law ruled, he mentioned that a woman could divorce her husband.

Jesus in (these cases) is encouraging women not to divorce , but if "the right to divorce" did not exist his statements would have been a non-issue... making no sense at all !

Is the total absence of women's rights truly a Bible teaching ?

Contemporary marriages may follow the Biblical model or may be quite different. Regardless of how we divide the roles and responsibilities in our marriages, though, we must be sure the marriage fulfills its essential family functions and provides a loving environment for children to grow into responsible adults.

Unselfish love is the "glue" that holds families together. In marriage, we must subdue our own egos and selfish pride for the sake of the family. The Apostle Paul states it eloquently in this passage from First Corinthians:

Love is patient, love is kind, and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. (NAS, 1 Corinthians 13:4-7)

51

Adultery in the Bible

by BU2B in

jw
friends

i know that when you take a marriage vow, faithfulness is expected and either party going outside that bond is wrong.

however as i read the bible i seem to notice that in the old testament a woman having relations with anyone not her husband was adultery, however the only way a male can commit adultery is to have relations with another married woman, thereby infringing on another mans wife.

if a married man was to have relations with an unmarried woman or prostitute, this isnt considered adultery.

caliber

The "let he who is without sin, cast the first stone" incident is one of the most well-known lessons of the Bible. A woman, who had been caught in the act of adultery was

brought to Jesus by the scribes and Pharisees

as a test to see if the Messiah was a" liberal" in matters of the Law of God. In response to their deceitful query, He didn't

condemn the woman, not because He was a liberal, not because He condoned her sin, but because the men who brought the woman to Him were hypocrites . He was the

only person there that day who was free of sin, the only one who had the right to "cast the first stone." He didn't stone her (or her accusers), but instead forgave her and told her

to "sin no more. " ............................ This is called mercy not condoning

If a policeman lets me off for a speeding ticket once.. does this mean he will never give me a ticket if I continue to do so ?

I may be reading too much into this lesson as well, but it would appear to me that hypocrites bothered Jesus far more than an act of adultery

into which one may have fallen. When you have fallen you can always get up... but an evil scheming spirit is much harder to overcome

51

Adultery in the Bible

by BU2B in

jw
friends

i know that when you take a marriage vow, faithfulness is expected and either party going outside that bond is wrong.

however as i read the bible i seem to notice that in the old testament a woman having relations with anyone not her husband was adultery, however the only way a male can commit adultery is to have relations with another married woman, thereby infringing on another mans wife.

if a married man was to have relations with an unmarried woman or prostitute, this isnt considered adultery.

caliber

Now back to Matthew 19. Notice Jesus conclusion: For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.

The Pharisees then retort, Why then did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away? They make their appeal from the law of Moses. Jesus made His appeal from the creation account. He then shows that the beginning is the basis for His law.

We could discuss and debate at length the meaning of Deuteronomy 24. Did the Pharisees interpret it correctly? Were they misusing this text? The question really is, For us, does it matter? Jesus makes clear that it didn't apply at the beginning and doesn't apply now.

"some guys made it all up and credited God with the misogynistic oppression of women and girls"

these scriptures below are the ones I see outlined for Christian men and believe are a must to practice

Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever” ( 1 Timothy 5:8 ).

“Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them” ( Colossians 3:19 ).

“Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers” ( 1 Peter 3:7 ).

51

Adultery in the Bible

by BU2B in

jw
friends

i know that when you take a marriage vow, faithfulness is expected and either party going outside that bond is wrong.

however as i read the bible i seem to notice that in the old testament a woman having relations with anyone not her husband was adultery, however the only way a male can commit adultery is to have relations with another married woman, thereby infringing on another mans wife.

if a married man was to have relations with an unmarried woman or prostitute, this isnt considered adultery.

caliber

The fact is: prior to the Christian New Covenant, God did allow concubines and it was not adultery! Adultery was taking another man's wife (or another woman's husband),

Did Jesus see a difference in a legal marriage and a 'live-in "

"16 He told her, "Go, call your husband and come back." 17 "I have no husband," she replied. Jesus said to her, "You are right when you say you have no husband. 18 The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true." (John 4 NIV)

Further evidence that marriage is a legal matter is seen in the Bible's very extensive use of mother-in-law, father-in-law, daughter-in-law and son-in-law.

The practise of a man having more than one wife or concubines continued into the Roman society of Jesus' day but although no single statement of Jesus or Paul completely barred this approach for Christians it starts to become clear that the practise is hardly consistent with the Christian life. A consideration of Jesus' comments in Matthew 5-7, Matthew 19:1-9 and perhaps especially Paul's comments on marital love in 1 Corinthians 7 tell us much more. Paul assumes either no marriage or monogamous marriage within the Christian life

So why did God ever allow such things?

I think that here we have to remind ourselves that we cannot question the choices or decisions of God!! In the very early years after Creation, for instance, men would necessarily have had to marry their close female relations, but later on this became barred with strict laws against incest. Are we going to question God over this? What right would we have to question the wisdom of our Creator? Then, for a long period of time, plural marriages, concubinage and very large families were allowed (and the latter certainly encouraged), and there is ample reason to think that the need to re-build the world's population, post-flood, may well have been a reason for this. But where these things were taken to excess, the Lord issued warnings. See Genesis 6:1-2 for instance.

"6 When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.

Which case greed & lust were present with no thought of comitment or upright purpose.

115

Public Apology Nathan Natas

by Simon in

i'd like to offer a public apology to nathan natas for making a wrong decision when i deleted him.. i allowed a combination of previous issues we'd had and input from other forum members to bias my decision which lead me to what i now, in hindsight, believe to have been a mistake.. whether you want to come back and post here or not i wanted to at least say sorry and will reactivate your account..

caliber

Well said Simon ... you would have made a great court judge

your sense of timing in actions on the board seem almost a perfect fit

The reason game shows say" the judges decision is final" becomes very evident here

everyone has to get thier two cents in expanding an exclusive decision ... A crafty way of averting this rule.....

Publicly disputing or arguing about moderator decisions
If you disagree with any action taken then please raise it via email or PM.

51

Adultery in the Bible

by BU2B in

jw
friends

i know that when you take a marriage vow, faithfulness is expected and either party going outside that bond is wrong.

however as i read the bible i seem to notice that in the old testament a woman having relations with anyone not her husband was adultery, however the only way a male can commit adultery is to have relations with another married woman, thereby infringing on another mans wife.

if a married man was to have relations with an unmarried woman or prostitute, this isnt considered adultery.

caliber

thank you for your response trujw ... I believe you , you have sincere questions

I shall post an article I found on your question of concubines.

...basically it addresses what the possible purpose of Biblical recognized concubines may have been

The simple answer is a second wife (or multiple wives). The term concubine is a relatively modern word which has different meanings with many societies. The Webster's dictionary defines this word as:

a woman who cohabits with a man without being married
a secondary wife in certain polygamous societies

The bible definition aligns more closely to a polygamous society in the Ancient Scriptures of Israel (O.T), while the term “concubine” does not appear in the Christian Era Scriptures (N.T.). We will need to go back to the beginning for the proper definition (or intent) of the Hebrew word that was translated into concubine. Genesis 2:24 states: Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife and they shall be one flesh. (KJV) This verse seems to dispel the notion that God approved of multiple wives or a polygamous society. But, many miss the most important point about this verse:

Death was not yet introduced! Adam and Eve had not fallen (or sinned) at this point. When God created man (Adam/Eve), His intent was for them to live continually. They were to reproduce and teach their children the ways of God. Their existence would have become a utopia! The idea of “extinction” was not even considered. Unfortunately, man disobeyed God and death was introduced. This also created the possibility of extinction! Extinction put into simple terms is when a species does not reproduce enough to off set the death rate. This is probably one of the reason early humans lived hundreds of years instead of the shorter period humans live today.

Genesis 6 introduces a change in the human life span, no longer will those born live hundreds of years, but their life span would eventually be only around 120 years. God also saw how evil man had become and decided to destroy most of what existed. The bible states that eight human beings survived the Great Flood and with this event the birth rate verses the death rate would change and this is where the term “concubine” is introduced! Through-out the remainder of Genesis we can see the form of a polygamous society. This can be supported by the laws of God! (See: Exodus 21:7-11 and Deuteronomy 21:10-17)

We must also review the law of Deuteronomy 22:28-29. So, when we review these laws it becomes clear: if there was sexual intercourse, the woman was not a “concubine” but a wife and the man was required to follow several laws related to that union. These unions seems to be permitted so that God's chosen (Abraham's seed) would not face extinction, but there is an exception: adultery (review Lev. 20:10-12 and Proverbs 5). A concubine (biblically speaking) would be a maidservant who became a wife (betrothed) because of sexual relations with a man. So, am I suggesting that God permitted plural marriages? Yes, but only in ancient times! This was changed by God and reverted back to the instructions in Genesis 2:24 and introduced by Jesus. (Matthew 19:1-15) No longer was extinction in play, because Jesus said he would intervene before that could happened. (Matthew 24:22-23) Review: Judges 19 and 20, Esther 2

Nov 26, 2011 by anonymous

#############################

I wish you peace

Caliber

51

Adultery in the Bible

by BU2B in

jw
friends

i know that when you take a marriage vow, faithfulness is expected and either party going outside that bond is wrong.

however as i read the bible i seem to notice that in the old testament a woman having relations with anyone not her husband was adultery, however the only way a male can commit adultery is to have relations with another married woman, thereby infringing on another mans wife.

if a married man was to have relations with an unmarried woman or prostitute, this isnt considered adultery.

caliber

Look up the definition of concubine How many women had them? How many men in the bible did.

As soon as you respond to my questions posed above .

A scattered approach to topics leads to confusion.. would you not agree ?

You choose to used the above scripture to support your thought did you not.. why do you choose to now ignore it ?

I orginal poster posed the idea of men being able to divorce but not women

I repeat my question...

Where is the would be advantage of the man being able to divorce but not the women in your scripture ?

51

Adultery in the Bible

by BU2B in

jw
friends

i know that when you take a marriage vow, faithfulness is expected and either party going outside that bond is wrong.

however as i read the bible i seem to notice that in the old testament a woman having relations with anyone not her husband was adultery, however the only way a male can commit adultery is to have relations with another married woman, thereby infringing on another mans wife.

if a married man was to have relations with an unmarried woman or prostitute, this isnt considered adultery.

caliber

Deuteronomy 22:28-29

New King James Version (NKJV)

28 “If a man finds a young woman who is a virgin, who is not betrothed, and he seizes her and lies with her, and they are found out, 29 then the man who lay with her shall give to the young woman’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife because he has humbled her; he shall not be permitted to divorce her all his days

If you take advantage of a women you are now responsible for her for the rest of your days

Where is the would be advantage of the man being able to divorce but not the women ?

Is it a good idea to compare rape with adultery though ?

51

Adultery in the Bible

by BU2B in

jw
friends

i know that when you take a marriage vow, faithfulness is expected and either party going outside that bond is wrong.

however as i read the bible i seem to notice that in the old testament a woman having relations with anyone not her husband was adultery, however the only way a male can commit adultery is to have relations with another married woman, thereby infringing on another mans wife.

if a married man was to have relations with an unmarried woman or prostitute, this isnt considered adultery.

caliber

However as I read the Bible I seem to notice that in the Old Testament a woman having relations with anyone not her husband was adultery, however the only way a male can commit adultery is to have relations with another MARRIED woman, thereby infringing on another mans wife

Please quote the Bible text that shows this...this is not a denial rather I wish to read it and ponder it

51

Adultery in the Bible

by BU2B in

jw
friends

i know that when you take a marriage vow, faithfulness is expected and either party going outside that bond is wrong.

however as i read the bible i seem to notice that in the old testament a woman having relations with anyone not her husband was adultery, however the only way a male can commit adultery is to have relations with another married woman, thereby infringing on another mans wife.

if a married man was to have relations with an unmarried woman or prostitute, this isnt considered adultery.

caliber

Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. ~~King James

Dear brothers and sisters, if another believer is overcome by some sin, you who are godly should gently and humbly help that person back onto the right path. And be careful not to fall into the same temptation yourself ~~~ New living bible

Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. ~~ English Standard version

(Gal 6: 1 in all above bible quotes)

Do some of these bible versions exclude women , or is it not the case when they address Brothers it may in fact include women & children ? and when it says "if a man" is overtaken this likewise would include a women ?

the Bible is not written like a legal document whereby you must cover all the would be "loop-holes "