1) romans 8:20 .
yhwh gave up.
there are no secondary fulfillments as regards the end.
Hi Data Dog,
Totally agree, JW's live for a fairytale future and don't enjoy what God gave us now.
I don't know about the plan failing, but agree that believers won't stay on earth.
Personally, I love the idea of seeing the heavenly glories and meeting my maker.
whether you are a christian, jew, undecided, agnostic, or atheist, isn't having the attitude that only ***your*** interpretation of the bible could be correct, or only ***you*** know what the bible means, -- .
isn't this a form of closed-mindedness, arrogance, and a superiority complex?.
in addition, isn't trying to force someone to conform to ***your*** interpretation of the bible the opposite of "freethinking?
Hi Fusion, there is nothing wrong with healthy debate.
On this forum I see people passionate about what they believe, and I think that is good. Because if you don't believe in anything, then what is the point.
I think where us as ex-jw's find it hard, is we are used to winning "battles" in the ministry. Even if we were proven wrong, we would find a way to say that we were right. I am trying to curb that habit and be a little more open.
Even if we don't agree with an ideology, I think it is important we can voice it in healthy strong debate without getting personal or taking it personally - but it is also important that even if we don't agree we try to see it from the other persons standpoint.
clarified understandings / new light of the past 7 years or so:.
* the faithful and discreet slave is only the governing body and only since 1919.. * the faithful slave was appointed in 1919 by jesus but it will not receive its greater authority until the judgment of the sheep and goats.. * charles taze russell was not part of the faithful and discreet slave.. * there was no slave for 1900 years before 1919.. * there may not have been any anointed during those 1900 years, but it's possible there were a few.. * 1935 was not the cut-off date for the selection of the anointed-- this selection is still ongoing.
* 1935 has no special biblical significance.. * 1918 has no special biblical significance.. * gog of magog is not satan, but is a coalition of nations, who may be ruled by the mysterious king of the north.. * there is no evil slave class.
Yes Fusion, and Jesus promise to be with his loyal ones till the end of the system?
We could ask a JW where was Jesus in this time then?
Does that mean he lied to us?
I am not sure how they will accept this "new schite" but my guess is many will just go along and parrot it off. Hopefully it will wake some up.
if you had to pinpoint the time or experience that finally made you open your eyes, what would it be?.
i think for me it was the time i saw my dad shun his brother who he had not seen in decades just because he was a da'ed jw.
i thought to my self "no way jesus would do that.
For me there was a lot of red flags that started me thinking something is wrong here, but I never blamed the GB - it was the people not doing what we are supposed to. My wife had questioned stuff for years but we just put it in the "too hard" basket.
For me the July 15 2013 WT was what broke my trust in the GB. Then I started researching the scriptures and like Fayedunaway I saw how they changed the bible to suit themselves.
so this weekend there was a part about not following jesus at a distance.
the speaker made a big point of stating that any baptized jw male who was not either appointed ms/elder, or at the very least "reaching out" actively, was in fact following jesus at a distance.
he said that the only way to live through the big a was to follow jesus closely.
I just watched the second Jesus drama and again they have incorrect stuff, added words to Jesus conversations and basically the storyline is not in the bible.
I can't believe this - they have lost the plot. Instead of making the drama about Jesus he appears in it but it is all about DOUBTS and how you know JW's have the truth.
so this weekend there was a part about not following jesus at a distance.
the speaker made a big point of stating that any baptized jw male who was not either appointed ms/elder, or at the very least "reaching out" actively, was in fact following jesus at a distance.
he said that the only way to live through the big a was to follow jesus closely.
Is it just me, but are these blokes talking to us like we are idiots.
Jesus is kind, Satan is unkind, you don't want to be like Satan do you? Noooo. Let's have a look at a kids video about being kind.
I seem to be hearing more about Satan than Jesus.
And what about that Drama - it was a total fabrication not even in the bible. I mean we have so many great stories to focus on but they have that fictional guy rambling on about things that aren't even recorded in scripture - total hearsay.
i am initially thinking of the major religious institutions of christianity , catholic ,many branches , church of england , and the major protestant religions , too numerous to mention here.. after all their is 40,000 plus christian religions in the world today ?so obviously j.w.`s are not the only false religion .. so my real question is really , to do with the mainstream christian religions , why are`nt they more aggressive in their condemnation of the jehovah witness religion for their obvious failings ,flip backs ,contradictions ,prophecy`s that never eventuated , end of the world predictions ,re-inventing their past history , even distancing themselves from their past history , and their founding members , such as c.t.russell and j.f.rutherford whose policies they now reject... they need to get on board and bleed it for all it`s worth .. smiddy .
i am initially thinking of the major religious institutions of christianity , catholic ,many branches , church of england , and the major protestant religions , too numerous to mention here.. after all their is 40,000 plus christian religions in the world today ?so obviously j.w.`s are not the only false religion .. so my real question is really , to do with the mainstream christian religions , why are`nt they more aggressive in their condemnation of the jehovah witness religion for their obvious failings ,flip backs ,contradictions ,prophecy`s that never eventuated , end of the world predictions ,re-inventing their past history , even distancing themselves from their past history , and their founding members , such as c.t.russell and j.f.rutherford whose policies they now reject... they need to get on board and bleed it for all it`s worth .. smiddy .
I am tending to notice a lot more christian ministries revolving around JW's and Mormons. There are a bunch of youtube videos showing different ways to reason with them and different people trying to help them.
Maybe they start speaking out more but then the witnesses will just say that is the persecution "the only true faith" has to endure.
as we fade we still do studies with people but only from the scriptures.. one study asked about the blood, so we should the revelant scriptures and asked how she felt about transfusions.. she said that "nothing loses it's life when you receive blood so it is fine in her conscience".
love it!
the scriptures clearly show that the blood being poured out was to show respect that something lost it's life.. maybe you can ask a witness, why it is ok to receive an organ from someone who has passed away but not ok to receive blood from a live person?.
As we fade we still do studies with people but only from the scriptures.
One study asked about the Blood, so we should the revelant scriptures and asked how she felt about transfusions.
She said that "nothing loses it's life when you receive blood so it is fine in her conscience"
Love it!
The scriptures clearly show that the blood being poured out was to show respect that something lost it's life.
Maybe you can ask a witness, why it is ok to receive an organ from someone who has passed away BUT not ok to receive blood from a live person?
just to give you a bit of background, i've been researching my doubts for over a month, i'm convinced that although they may have some things right, they have a lot of other things horribly wrong.
i'm still clinging to a faith in god, because i see a creator's hand in nature, and i believe in jesus and his teachings, love, mercy, compassion.....that if everyone truly applied these (including jws) then all would benefit.. but i read this article in march and it's been on my mind ever since.
where isis stone a young couple to death for sex before marriage (a bit graphic).. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3017800/sickening-images-blindfolded-bound-couple-brutally-stoned-death-fornication-isis-militants-iraq.html.
Great answer Fayedunaway. We don't have all of the answers, but sticking to God gives us the peace we need and motivation to help others.
I have found it is the times that I am angriest with God that he is the most patient with me. I think of Jonah - he was a bit of a hot head with God and God took it and worked with him.
