Posts by shopaholic

10

They Actually Said it!- A rant Brought to you By sw29

by saywhat29 in

can't quote word for word, but at the dc this friday, the last talk given, the speaker actually said "not to question the faithful and discreet slave" and everybody around me was eating it up like it was cake.

my insides were churning when that guy said that crap.. and the funny thing is that if i hadn't been reading this board, reading the evilomg!

apostate literature they 'warned' us not to, then i would have been feeling guilty for my doubt, for my lack of faith, for being different, and all the rest of that crap.

shopaholic

but at the DC this Friday, the last talk given, the speaker actually said "Not to question the Faithful and Discreet Slave" and everybody around me was eating it up like it was cake.

Well, a good friend of mine was one of them. He called to give me the Friday highlights saying that the talks were so blunt that it was like it was only for real JW's since that's who show up on Fridays. In addition to mentioning what you said above, he went into detail about the FDS being God's only channel and that we are so close to the end ...blah,blah,blah...but he did say that afterwards many were talking about how the FDS was getting ready for something and that they know something is about to happen. He asked me what I thought about everything he mentioned in his Friday recap...my response was "Hmm...interesting"

You can't really be ask in a public area full of JWs who fill "charged up" after a DC 'What did you think of it' and give an honest answer.

I just find a way to not give an answer. But anyway, I will be at the DC this Sunday so that I can tell my family that I went as they have no clue about my fade. Although I think in some ways they won't be surprised. sw29, I have noticed that now its like I can see through the schpill that comes off the platform. I hope the education talk is not on Sunday because I will probably get up and walk out.

My dad isn't a JW, so I was one of the rare witness kids that got a degree right after high school (I've all been criticized for that all my life - but it never stopped the brothers from asking me for money.) Anyway, education is valuable, me and all my siblings started retirement accounts just like normal people do when they graduate from college and get a job. Even my friend that went on and on about the Friday highlights, who is an ex-bethelite and ex-pioneer and is broker-than-broke (literally), to this day he talks down about education saying that anyone who truly loves Jah would forsake an education and get busy in the ministry. Yet he's struggled to pay his rent (and owes me a ton of money) for many years, has NO retirement and will be 40 this year and has no health insurance. Well I got busy in the ministry with an education and you know what I was told by many witnesses....that it didn't mean a thing because I didn't struggle. That anyone could pioneer if they were in my situation but real pioneers are the ones that make sacrifices...even after I left a high-paying job to preach in a foreign land for a few years...it wasn't good enough...even after I turned down HUGE promotions to continue pioneering it wasn't good enough...this isn't how I felt...this is what I was told by many witnesses. I've even been told that Jah is going to do something special in the new world for those that struggled in this system vs the ones that seem to glide through life.

Okay..now..I'm ranting...when I think over things like this...I too wish I could go back in time and redo my JW history...I remember asking the brothers, when I was 15 and still not baptized, "how do I know this is the truth?" but then my little sister got baptized and I had to do something cuz if you were raised in the truth you know what that means when your younger sis/bro gets baptized before you do. But then I actually started to believe...and after many years I find myself here..bitter ...but I'm getting over it with the help of JWD....because at least now I know I'm not crazy. Well anyway, I think the FDS is starting to plant the seeds for some drastic stunt they are going to pull which is why they're telling everyone now to follow the FDS no matter what they say or do.

Thanks sw29 for starting the rant.

7

JW Exposed Documentary-Just been sent this link

by anglise in

just been sent this link and had to share.. http://www.tv-links.co.uk/index.do/9.

apologies if this has already been posted.. anglise.

shopaholic

Anglise, thanks for the link and I hope the all the folks secretly snooping around on JWD will watch it.

I came across the video on YouTube a few months ago. After watching the film, I realized that I wasn't crazy and that something was definitely not right with the JWs. Many witnesses that joined the org during or after the 80's do not know the history of the organization. Anyway, after watching the film I became a googleholic...searching for anything I could find on the org. My search lead me the whole UN ordeal, the blood issue in Bulgaria, and JWD, etc.

If you're snooping around this site and feel like you're at a crossroad, please WATCH THE FILM!!!

56

BirthdaysSimple Deconstruction of the JW Rationale

by AuldSoul in

to deconstruct the jw rationale surrounding birthdays, a few simple guidelines should be followed.. (1): don't waste any energy trying to convince a jw that birthdays are not pagan, if they suggest that, readily agree.

whether or not the celebrations are pagan turns out to be a non-issue that distracts from the main point.. (2): stay focused on the fact that jws disfellowship people for celebrating birthdays.. (3): stress the point that there should always be clear scriptural reason for disfellowshipping someone.

ask them often throughout the discussion whether this is the case, get them to reinforce this need to themselves.. (4): remember, the first goal is deconstructing their rationale, not giving them a new rationale, not convincing them that celebrating birthdays is a good thing.. once you have these well in mind, the deconstruction can begin.. jw rationale, in brief:.

shopaholic

It just goes to show that JW's never think through the logic of WT dogmas- they just obey them.

This is very true. At a pioneer meeting I attended several years ago, the CO said that witnesses (the rank and file) were trying to be too clever and find better ways to do things. He then mentioned that it wasn't up to us to determine how things were to done because we had the FDS for that. He then said, and I quote, "The organization doesn't need clever people, it only needs obedient people." I was very put off by that. For a while, all I heard people in our circuit say is that you never question the Society and just do as you're told even if you think its not right and Jah will correct it in his own time. When I think back on some of this stuff I wonder just how gullible I am. I've heard a number of witnesses ask about the difference between anniversaries and birthdays. There was even a Question from the Readers on it a few years back which didn't answer the question and I still have yet to get a satisfactory answer.

Thanks for the detailed explanation AuldSoul. To be honest, in all my years of pioneering I never felt comfortable explaining why JWs didn't celebrate birthdays, Mother's Day, Father's Day, Thanksgiving and the most difficult...explaining to a black person why black witnesses don't acknowledge Martin Luther King Day.

13

You chance to be heard!

by pratt1 in

here's the scenrio:.

you have the captive audience of all the witlesses that you have associated with and loved in the past (including family members) but now shun you, for 5 minutes.. you most chose one and only one topic to proved that their religion is false and not based on love.. 1. who would you pick to be part of this audience?.

2. what topic would you choose to discuss?

shopaholic

A captive audience....hmmm...I have the perfect shoes!!!

I would want all the GB, as many regular pioneers and elder's wives in attendance as possible, to get the word out because we all know they can't hold water. BTW, this would automatically include most of my family. A videographer and a transcriptionist to capture the event. I would have four simple questions that would directed only to the GB:

1) Why are JW's allowed (encouraged) to vote in political elections in at least one (that I am aware of) South American country?

Sidenote: I heard the talk from the platform ''en vivo" in that country telling them to vote to comply with the law and reminding them that they are to select all the candidates so that their vote is tossed out. This gives the appearance that they are no different than any other religion. Why don't they go to jail and suffer in Jehovah's name like so many other witness around the world?

2)Why do JW's not donate blood but yet can accept blood fractions?

3) Why can JW men in some European countries where beards (and be elders) but its not acceptable in the US although almost every adult picture of Jesus shows him wearing a beard?

Last but not least:

4) If I'm a regular pioneer, why don't you know who I am?

Sidenote: Until recently, I was reg pioneer for almost 11 years and just recently found out that your time is not sent in for you as an individual. It's sent in collectively so the Society never knows if a regular pioneer gets their time only your local elders. For some reason that didn't sit well with me.

So I'm thinking they should be able to answer each question in less than a minute. After all how long does it take to say 'Sis, have you talked to your local body of elders about these matters?"

49

How Would You or Did You Leave The Organization??

by minimus in

jw
friends

by choice, with a little help from the elders, faded slowly, disassociated????

how'd you get out?

shopaholic

Transferred congos and started the fade. Didn't know the process had a name until I found JWD a few months ago. Anyway, two months into the fade I probably heard from two sisters and in the last 6 months I haven't gotten so much as a phone call...not to see if I was still alive or even for a memorial pep talk. At first I was a little bummed out that no cared now I'm kinda relieved.

20

i wonder

by bigdreaux in

i didn't want to hijack the wanderer's new thread about weather the w.t.s.

should be held accountable for shunning, but, in reading it, a thought flashed across my little brain.

he pointed out that apostates that picket conventions are usually the worst kind of "apostates" they usually seem angry and uneducated.

shopaholic

While growing up and even now I see folks (I don't feel comfortable calling them apostates) picketing all the time at both circuit assemblies and district conventions. But come to think of it, I only saw them at English events never at the Spanish. A couple of times, I've even seen planes with large banners attached circling overhead during the convention for all 3 days. One year, I went to write down the number on the banner and some sister behind our row woke my mom up (her story is, she listens better with eyes closed ) and scared her half-to-death to tell her I was being sucked in by the "apostates". I just figured that anyone who went througth that much effort to get a plane and pay for the gas and to circle around all-day for 3 days must have had something pretty important to say but I never called the number. Now that my conventions are all indoors, there are always folks with signs and sometimes bullhorns after the Sunday session. Something tells me that these folks are not put there by the Society.

37

A Bible Question, please comment

by restrangled in

there will have to be assumptions involved here.....that god exists, the bible is the word of god and creation is as stated in genesis, etc.

etc.. in the old testament, god seemed pretty straight forward, let certain people know (and not by osmosis) his intent.

backed certain kings, and showed power through physical occurrences over and over again.. along comes his son, who died for the entire race as a ransom for adam's sin.

shopaholic

Maybe it is very simple and it has been complicated to no end my false religion

I would say that this is the case. When one reads the Bible and just the Bible, IMHO, the messages are quite clear. If one chooses to abide by the messages or use any of it in their life is another story. However, many religions have adjusted the message for selfish gain and power/control. People that follow a religion are often told that only a select few can truly understand the Bible for heirarchical reasons - everyone can't be a shepherd because someone has to be the sheep. The Bible mentions that "man has dominated man to his injury" and in my mind this includes religion. Most of what is being taught in many religions today is based on logical reasoning and deductions and not the Bible directly. However, one's reasoning will differ based on cultural background and personal experiences. Thats why something that totally okay in one JW congregation is almost a disfellowshipping offense in another JW congregation.

34

Going to anoher church?

by KatyH81 in

i just wondered if anyone has been to a church since fading, or getting out?

and how did you feel when you went?

shopaholic

LittleToe,

I'm by know means recommending that anyone remain a JW. I guess right now I'm just kind of done with religion as a whole. Once some of the bitterness wears off maybe it will be a different a story. There has been temptation to visit a couple of churches but I tell myself that I need time to heal and sort things out. As far as being a witness goes, I was the real deal. Regular pioneered for many years (till this past October)...gave up numerous opportunities to do more. I had my doubts for many years and thought if I tried a little harder, if I did a little more (like serve in another country) the doubts would go away. Then things just starting happening that blatently said "Girl, you've been bamboozled". (I'll give examples when I right my bio..I don't want to highjack the thread.) I even tried to ignore these things and kept right in tow then in all of a sudden everything came to a head and I simply decided I was DONE.

I may not always feel that way and I'm sure one day I will give church a try but I'm a little too bitter and cynical right now to take it seriously. Hopefully this isn't considered highjacking the thread but I just gotta say this...I love people...I love to help people...not only spiritually but practically as well. So when I go on a return visit and I know the person is looking for job and from our conversation I got some idea of their skill set...what's wrong with giving them spiritual food with one hand and then the classifieds with jobs already circled that might be a good match for them. Or what's wrong with dropping of a box of canned goods at shelter for battered women every now and then? When I'm told we are in a preaching work and not in a social work...I have issues with that...always have...always will. So no interest here in staying a JW...there's no practical assistance to community...which in contrast is what's somewhat appealling about some churches, is that they have social programs...sometimes I think I should just join the Peace Corp.

So KatyH81, if you want to give church a try...go right ahead...I think you might feel a little weirded out at first. I went to church one time for a funeral (to be with my Dad, a non-witness) and the rest of my witness family waited outside. It felt strange at first but LittleToe is right, there were no demons behind the pews and the sermon was real crack-up kinda like something you see on TV.

34

Going to anoher church?

by KatyH81 in

i just wondered if anyone has been to a church since fading, or getting out?

and how did you feel when you went?

shopaholic

Religion is a crutch and replacing one for another doesn't seem any healthier than just staying a JW.

Yep...that's how I feel right now and don't see it changing anytime soon.

39

Did You EVER Enjoy Going To Meetings Or Out In Service?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i can say that i don't thinki ever really looked forward to going to a 2 hour meeting or a 2 hour ride around in the "ministry.

shopaholic

Yes, I loved both. I was very zealous regular pioneer (not the judgemental kind but the cool kind that everyone wants to work with) for about 11 years until I started my fade in Oct 2006. I prepared for all the meetings and was ready to give a substitute talk or demonstration in a moments notice. I do miss the ministry but I've found better ways to help people.