Posts by Awakened07

21

There is nothing wrong with the WTBTS being a member of the United Nations

by Gill in

jw
friends

apparantly, these days it is general knowledge in our local congregation that the wtbts had joined the united nations as an ngo!.

this is not a problem i am reliably told by a local relative.. the un nations deserves the same respect as any other governmental authority and just as jehovah's witnesses would obey the law of the land there is no problem in being part of the united nations!

i know jws have their minds well and truly under control, but as i remember the united nations was bad mouthed from its inception by the wtbts.. hyprocrisy, lying and slander were all words that crossed my mind when talking to this relative, but the huge pointlessness of trying to wake up a jw from their 'cosy' fantasy world suddenly struck me and i made my excuses and left..

Awakened07

I must confess I haven't really looked into this UN NGO thing thoroughly. Is this something that most active JW would know about, but it has been explained away? If I asked my parents, would they know about this?
Has there been any official WTS articles about this? Because... Well - anything outside of the WTS literature would be considered to be lies and damned lies by my parents, I'm quite sure. So 'proving' it with outside sources wouldn't work well (especially scans or things found on the web, 'cause they can easily be forged). However, if I could show them an article from the WTS - even if it "explained it away" - then I could use it. Or - then they might know about it already. But to be honest I very much doubt they know about it, and if I told them, there is no chance they would believe me unless there was an 'inside' source. That's the problem with a closed society like that. Outside sources that are even slightly negative are "from the Devil".

36

What are some of the pro-JW discussion boards?

by slimboyfat in

jw
friends

i know there are some about, but i just can't find them at the moment.

not e-watchman: i mean like loyal witness boards.

slim .

Awakened07

I've actually wanted to find such a forum myself, just to see what they're saying. But when I think about it - what could they talk about?

It would probably have to be confined to talking of experiences in the ministry, talking about an uplifting article, and basically be very strictly about what the Watchtower says.

They could discuss a few Bible verses, but what if someone asked the wrong questions? Not an 'apostate', but an active member asking logical questions there are no WTS answers to? Or there are answers, but not ones that would satisfy that person?

It would deteriorate pretty quickly, I'd think.

I don't know how most young JW will react to the new KM article - will they read the sentence saying "Thus, "the faithful and discreet slave" does not endorse any literature, meetings, or Web sites that are not produced or organized under its oversight." and think:

"Well - this is in conjunction with the first statement in the article, so it must mean "no web sites that discuss religion" ?

Or will they understand it as "NO web sites allowed" and then go "Meh." and continue surfing anyway?

Or will they understand it as "NO web sites allowed" and actually quit going to any non-JW websites??

53

I am stuck in a life I don't want and can't see the way out

by Orgull in

some of you have encouraged me already in the week or so i've been here and i think you.. here's the situation.

i am single.

i am 34 years old.

Awakened07

Hey - know that you are not alone!

In fact, your story is so much like mine right now in a lot of ways, that I can't "expose" which parts, because the world's a very small place (especially where I live) and I'd like to keep as much anonymity as possible.

I have drifted away 'successfully' though - but that also means I currently have no friends on the inside, and no friends on the outside. I've never been the "partying and drinking all night" type of guy, and most non-JWs around here are. So I'm very much alone. Thankfully I quite enjoy my own company. Aside from myself, I have contact with my close family who are still inside - but since I'm not disfellowshipped or disassociated yet, they can have some contact with me. But none from my so-called friends on the inside. They are afraid of me, because whatever I have caught may rub off on them... I know, 'cause I used to think like them. So I don't really blame them.

Anyway - starting to babble now... Good luck - you're in a tough spot right now, as am I I guess, but I think we'll make it anyway.

Don't underestimate the psycological impact such a change in life and your outlook on life may have though. I think I might have. But after a while, you'll know how to handle life without the witnesses, and how to get a new outlook on life itself. Of course - "ever lasting, perfect life in a paradise" is a hard act to follow, but as long as that 'act' is false... Not so hard after all.

I shouldn't be so cocky though - I haven't actually left yet, I'm just inactive. But I have my reasons. Even though my brain is 100% certain I'm right, my.... heart? ... sometimes is not. But this is a normal reaction pattern for someone departing a cult, as I've found out.

Anyway - you're not alone, so if you need some help just figuring life out, I think you'll get some good advice here.

Good luck.

43

El vs. YHWH or El into YHWH. for those who've read "The Bible Unearthed"

by kwintestal in

i've been thinking about this for quite a while and i'm not exactly sure how the best way of putting it out there, so if it seems like i'm blabbering at points, i more then likely am and i'm sorry.

i'm kind of merging two different thoughts together, historical info i got from the book, "the bible unearthed" and personal research and discussions with others regarding "el".. el obviously played an important part in early hebrew language as it was their word for "god".

but, el was a caananite god, and to them the god of all gods, supreme god father of all things and humankind.

Awakened07

Well, I don't really have a lot of valuable input, but it's an interesting subject you bring up, and likewise the Wikipedia article, although it was missing a lot of citations.

I haven't read the 'Bible unearthed' book, but the History channel program based on the book can be found on YouTube in several parts. Just search for 'bible unearthed'.

I thought of Psalms 82:1 (and 6), where both El and Elohim is used. But if I recall correctly, that verse is understood as these gods being human beings; the judges. Can't remember if this is because the rest of people's faith dictates that it couldn't have meant other gods, or if there are some verses that clearly show that they were human judges.

61

showed wife the new km article. bad decision.

by freeme in

hey guys.. sometimes im really next to crying (better: im crying).

no answer.

" no answer.

Awakened07

If I had been active, I think I'd react the same way as your wife. Many things are far removed from me now, but sometimes I can still put myself in that "state" if I want to, and thus see how an active witness would react.

I think if it had been me being 'challenged' like this while I was active, I would actually get scared. And what happens when people get scared? They get angry. It's a defense mechanism.

As a witness you've been taught circular logic for many years, maybe a whole lifetime (as is my case) - - I actually didn't know what circular logic even meant just a couple of years ago.

I would see it mentioned in debates on the internet between atheists and christians, but I did not get what it meant. Weird.

The thing is.... as a witness, "you have the Truth". And you've been taught that as the world comes to its end, Satan will be more and more active, and the persecution of witnesses will only get worse and worse.

What this does, is it vaccinates you against any attack. Because if it isn't from the Watchtower, then it must be from Satan. And that's actually quite scary when you're a witness. So your mind goes into hiding. And even if you're "pressed against the wall" figuratively speaking, by an argument you can't refute, you will say to yourself "Well - if I can only get through this, Jehovah will come through and make everything alright, and will explain all this to us. In the meantime, I'll just smooth it over and put it under the carpet".

As for the KM article, I think most active witnesses won't even notice what it really says. Then there'll be a few who will, but they will rationalize it and smooth it over as "Well - this must mean we're not supposed to make study groups using non-WTS material in order to 'test' our faith, but I don't do that anyway when I for instance use Wikipedia, so this doesn't apply to me". Then there will be a few others who do see what this means, and will be... suspicious, but since their whole life (both the current and their future) is challenged if they make something out of it, they will instead abide by the article.

After all, they "have the Truth". Why? "Because the Bible says so". But how can we prove the Bible is right? "Well, it mentions the earth as round and hanging in thin air, it says that Pi is ~3 (which is so close to correct that we can accept it - maybe God isn't a math buff) and it has some prophecies that are 100% correct - at least if you use the Bible as the authority when it comes to chronology. Oh - and because the Bible says so, of course.

So how do you get through that thick wall? I'm actually not sure how I got through my own wall. But I think - in my case - that even though I was active - I've never been a very spiritual person, and I always questioned things. But I tended to put those questions into a compartment in the back of my brain and surmise that it would be answered someday, if not in this system of things, then in the next. But in the end, it dawned on me that I had a couple of points that went against WTS (or that there simply were no WTS answers for at all), and I couldn't with clear conscience preach to others about something I didn't believe myself. These were questions that were not very likely to ever come up in a normal door-to-door situation, but nevertheless I finally understood that if I met a person who asked those specific questions, I would either have to say "Well, the WTS teaches this, but I think that..." or I could tell them exactly what the WTS teaches (or I would have to say that there are no answers to those specific questions), but then I would be dishonest anyway and teaching something I thought was wrong. So I stopped preaching. And when you stop preaching, you'll slowly run out of friends in KH ('cause you don't have any ministry anecdotes to share like the others do, and are considered not good company). And when that happens, you really don't feel like going to meetings anymore. And when that happens, you get more time to actually think. It becomes a snowball down a hill. Well - that's more or less my story, anyway.

As for your wife, I think you've gotten some good advice in this thread already. That being said, I think even though that conversation was hurtful and awkward, that you may have planted a seed there. Her brain has to go through that information. If it hadn't been for you, she would read the KM article and just go "well, that's necessary in our times. Good for the FDS." But now, because of what you said, she may actually think a little deeper about it. It may not affect her just yet, but over time it just might.

Good luck.

15

Gen 2:18-22 ---------my take....STORY OR REALITY??????????????????????????

by fedorE in

jehovah creates adam......ok...all is good.........but jah recognizes that this creature that he just created is all alone...it seems he didnt have plans to create more than one!!!!

but be that as it may.......ok... all is good........then he says im gona make him a "helper"............ok all is still ok.................. ......so at this point when he recognizes his creatures lonliness what does he do??????.

beasts............ are introduced to adam .

Awakened07

BUT THE FACT REMAINS WE ARE NOT THE FIRST ONES TO REALIZE THIS STUFF PPL HAVE BEEN POINTING THIS STUFF OUT FOR YEARS AND YEARS....

Yes, you're probably right. I sat here today and had one "epiphany" after the other. AND - I actually went and got my WTS literature out from the basement to see if I could make sense of it when I read the explanations there - but I no longer could! I could not agree to what they claim. They use a lot of sentences that begin with "Apparently", "Evidently", "It seems therefore" "We must conclude".... Well - none of it is apparent or evident, and we must not conclude anything of the sort! I even went to blueletterbible.com and looked up the Hebrew meanings of some words. Nope. It just doesn't make sense.

But the reason I write this and quoted you is that you're probably right; we feel we're getting these epiphanies when in fact numerous people have had the same thoughts through the centuries.

I remember having epiphanies as I was taught "the Truth". It's weird to think I'm the same human being I was back then.

15

Gen 2:18-22 ---------my take....STORY OR REALITY??????????????????????????

by fedorE in

jehovah creates adam......ok...all is good.........but jah recognizes that this creature that he just created is all alone...it seems he didnt have plans to create more than one!!!!

but be that as it may.......ok... all is good........then he says im gona make him a "helper"............ok all is still ok.................. ......so at this point when he recognizes his creatures lonliness what does he do??????.

beasts............ are introduced to adam .

Awakened07

Funny you should mention it, 'cause I've been re-reading the beginning of Genesis lately - this time without the WTS words in the back of my mind or on my desk, and WOW! What a difference!

I pretty much can't read two verses in a row now without finding something weird, or something that can't be supported by science!

But I think I'll make my own thread about that soon.

That said - - as a "preview" here: - - you say [quote]...it seems he didnt have plans to create more than ONE!!!! but be that as it may.......OK... all is good........[/quote] but it's really not all good IMO. Because.... what was God's original plan for earth? Think about it - he didn't create Eve until it dawned on Him that Adam felt alone. So... Let's say Adam had been 100% content with running around there all alone. Then what? What was God's original plan?

9

Do you remember this change?

by Awakened07 in

thinking about the 1995 change (1914 generation) made me remember vaguely another change that i seem to remember 'shook' me quite a bit, maybe even more so (not quite sure why exactly, that's why i'd like to remind myself of this).. .

-it was about how 'new light' had revealed that it wasn't jw who were separating the sheep from the goats while they go door-to-door, but instead jehovah (or jesus) that will separate them when time comes.. anyone here remember something along those lines, and if so, what publication it was in etc.?.

.

Awakened07

Yeah - thanks, it's coming back to me now. I remember thinking "Well, if he's going to separate them when he comes, then what's the point in preaching? He can judge people's hearts, so why not just do it on the spot?". And I wasn't the only one thinking along those lines. In fact, I think the article said something like "Does this mean we should stop our service? No!" or words to that effect. I may be wrong though.

Funny, now that I did a Google for sheep and goats, the scripture I found is quite clear that Jesus will separate them (Matthew 25:31-33). So I'm wondering how the old understanding came about in the first place.

But I think the old understanding was that we had 'prepared' the flocks, and then He would come in and... well - basically kill the goats and spare the sheep. But the new light showed that we hadn't really done any separating at all for all these years, and that He will also judge them at that time. Well - not 100% clear on this, so it would be great to find the original article.

[edited] Sorry Gopher, you replied while I was typing. Thanks for that post. Incidentally I was down in my basement today and found the 1995 Watchtower collection. Nice to have. ;-)

9

Do you remember this change?

by Awakened07 in

thinking about the 1995 change (1914 generation) made me remember vaguely another change that i seem to remember 'shook' me quite a bit, maybe even more so (not quite sure why exactly, that's why i'd like to remind myself of this).. .

-it was about how 'new light' had revealed that it wasn't jw who were separating the sheep from the goats while they go door-to-door, but instead jehovah (or jesus) that will separate them when time comes.. anyone here remember something along those lines, and if so, what publication it was in etc.?.

.

Awakened07

Thinking about the 1995 change (1914 generation) made me remember vaguely another change that I seem to remember 'shook' me quite a bit, maybe even more so (not quite sure why exactly, that's why I'd like to remind myself of this).

-It was about how 'new light' had revealed that it wasn't JW who were separating the sheep from the goats while they go door-to-door, but instead Jehovah (or Jesus) that will separate them when time comes.
Anyone here remember something along those lines, and if so, what publication it was in etc.?

Thanks. :)

34

JW Stopping Door to Door Preaching?

by SuzieQ in

jw
friends

has anyone heard any announcement to this effect?

could it be true?

no more jw knocking at our doors?

Awakened07

My first post here (Yay!)!

Very short bio: I'm a born-again atheist, fading away from the WT.

OK - as for the topic, I think perhaps what you've heard is that when Armageddon is imminent (even more so than now!), JW will stop preaching - just like when Noah closed the door to the ark.

So if they've stopped preaching - - look out!