I think this is most likely a local thing while the CO is there. Haven't they just announced that the talk will be 30 minutes?
But interesting nonetheless. Well - maybe not if it's just local and brief, but... potentially interesting nonetheless.
Awakened07
JoinedPosts by Awakened07
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149
Public Talks To Be Discontinued!!! (NOT! - see page 8)
by minimus inafter the sunday culttower study is over, everyone will be expected to preach because the end is soooooooo close!.
[minimus i have added to the title so people can read yor correction.
otherwise i think people might just miss it.
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29
Is it all just a 'Cosmic Crapshoot'?
by AK - Jeff infirst my faith in the wts went away.. later my faith in religion [for purposes other than fellowship] went away.
to date, my faith in the existence of the 'great cause' remains, but is tarnishing in some respects.
i have no clear picture of what we really are, where we are really going, and why we exist.
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Awakened07
Yes, it's an interesting question Narkissos, and one I'm not fully decided on yet - maybe never will.
If I'm "right" - and I'm not sure I agree with myself here(!) - then computers should eventually gain awareness as a direct result of complexity and intelligence. I tried to think about that; "Why isn't a computer truly intelligent and aware? Is it only because it isn't complex enough yet?" Is it because a computer only "mechanically" picks up information and places it somewhere else, kinda like picking up different colored pebbles and placing them somewhere else for later retrieval? What does the human brain do that's different from that in that case? Some computers, especially in robots, can 'learn' and 'evolve'; a robot may be programmed with a goal of getting from a horizontal position to an upright position, but not programmed exactly how to accomplish it, and needs to learn from it's mistakes. And it works - after several attempts, it's upright, because of all the numerous things it tried to do, only some of them aided it in getting upright, and the mistakes were discarded. But is that intelligence like in humans? At this stage, I'd of course say not. But perhaps at some stage later on, with (much) added complexity? Hard to tell. Is awareness something ethereal - a soul; something a computer can never posses? Unfortunately, if awareness is simply a function of complexity and intelligence and computers therefore can obtain it, I doubt it will be shown in my lifetime.
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25
My Mom's Reaction On The Phone...Please Help Me Understand
by deaconbluez inafter i wrote my parents a 10-page letter going into detail about all of the problems with the watchtower, along with documented evidence of false prophecies/predictions, flip-flops in doctrine, as well as many good reasoning points, she put up some very strong defenses over the phone.
at first she said that she read the letter.
then when we got on a topic that was covered in the letter, and i could see that she didn't comprehend the point that i was making, i would ask her, "are you sure you read the letter?
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Awakened07
She claims that I would LOVE to find something that proves the Watchtower to be false...because then that would allow me to live whatever lifestyle that I choose.
This is sooo typical! All who are disfellowshipped or dissacociate themselves are looked upon as people who do it because they want to be free to sin! But in many cases, my own and yours included, that's simply not the case! But they can't wrap their mind around the possibility that what they've been taught is simply not right! Sorry for all the exclamation marks...
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16
how will I know you in paradise?
by tula inso we have been led to believe that we will all look the same as we do now...except we will have no flaws and a perfected body without deformity or ailment.
hmmm..... how do we know this to be true?
is there any scriptural reference to this aspect of "resurrection"?
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Awakened07
- If you're asking a JW, they will say (I think, if I remember correctly) that Jesus was given a new kind of body when he had been resurrected, one which he could go directly up to heaven with. So he was kinda not flesh, but at the same time "fleshy enough" that Thomas could touch his wounds (a little weird that he had those wounds and it was considered evidence, since he had gotten a new body).
I think this is a problem regardless of denomination?
As for JWs in paradise:
so we have been led to believe that we will all look the same as we do now...except we will have no flaws and a perfected body without deformity or ailment. hmmm....
Yeah - think about it: an older, fat, bald, acne-ridden, glasses-wearing, lazy-eyed, crooked-teethed man is resurrected, and since he's given a perfect body, he's no longer old, fat, bald, have clean skin, no glasses, straight eyes, straight teeth - a lighter voice due to less body fat... How easy would he be to recognize?
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The amazing, magical self-healing house of cards!
by Awakened07 ini remember when i still believed, that if i would come across a teaching or some piece of news that didn't gel with what i already believed, and the evidence or logical reasoning for it was so strong that i was "pushed into a corner", i would think (or even say) "yeah, well - all the other things are still there, which i base my faith on.
so while i concede this point, there's still enough there for me to continue believing.".
sounds reasonable enough at first.
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Awakened07
I think perhaps one very key thing for many, is the feeling that (and harping on and on of) the end being so close. Every little earthquake, every little "rumor of war", every little bird flu 'attack'... Makes them 'rejoice', and not only that, but I remember saying "How can he/she be so stupid as to disassociate him/herself now, so close to Armageddon!?"
I think many Witnesses are tired now - I know I was, even though I wasn't elderly. And - if and when all else fails - they can sit in front of their TVs watching CNN and 'rejoice' that at the very least the world is showing all the signs that Armageddon is really close now. Of course, judging by such things, Armageddon has been much closer before, but...
They are 'waiting on Jehovah' to sort it all out, not realizing that there are so many things to 'sort out' that Jehovah kinda vanishes in a poof of logic, to borrow a little from Douglas Adams.
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9
The amazing, magical self-healing house of cards!
by Awakened07 ini remember when i still believed, that if i would come across a teaching or some piece of news that didn't gel with what i already believed, and the evidence or logical reasoning for it was so strong that i was "pushed into a corner", i would think (or even say) "yeah, well - all the other things are still there, which i base my faith on.
so while i concede this point, there's still enough there for me to continue believing.".
sounds reasonable enough at first.
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Awakened07
Yes, but how much can one remove and still believe? If you agreed to remove all those points (not the ones mentioned in my post specifically, but whatever points it may be in a particular situation), in the end there would be nothing left 'proving' that the organization is anything special at all. A personal relationship with Jehovah, then? Well - that may be left, but who was it that taught you about Jehovah in the first place?
(I'm not asking you guys of course, just a way of building a sentence)
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The amazing, magical self-healing house of cards!
by Awakened07 ini remember when i still believed, that if i would come across a teaching or some piece of news that didn't gel with what i already believed, and the evidence or logical reasoning for it was so strong that i was "pushed into a corner", i would think (or even say) "yeah, well - all the other things are still there, which i base my faith on.
so while i concede this point, there's still enough there for me to continue believing.".
sounds reasonable enough at first.
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Awakened07
I remember when I still believed, that if I would come across a teaching or some piece of news that didn't gel with what I already believed, and the evidence or logical reasoning for it was so strong that I was "pushed into a corner", I would think (or even say) "Yeah, well - all the other things are still there, which I base my faith on. So while I concede this point, there's still enough there for me to continue believing."
Sounds reasonable enough at first.
This I find is true for many others as well. When pushed on a certain belief, they'll concede that "Yes, OK - you got me there, but there's still so many other things that make me believe, so it doesn't really matter."
Usually, when you remove a card from an actual house of cards, it collapses either partially or entirely. This figurative "house of cards" however, keeps being upright even after several supporting cards are taken away. How come?
Because the person who concedes on one point after the other, doesn't actually realize what's happening.
In conversation 1 (in January):"Well - OK, you got me there; the name Jehovah may have been added to the NT and not reinserted. But that doesn't budge my faith, because there's still the prophecies that have been fulfilled, among many other things."
In conversation 2 (in March):"Well - OK, you got me there; the flood of Noah's day probably wasn't global and didn't happen the way it's described. But that doesn't budge my faith, because there's still the scriptures that say the earth is a globe hanging in empty space, among many other things."
In conversation 3 (in July):"Well - OK, you got me there; the basis for one of the main prophecies is shaky (607BC), but that doesn't budge my faith, because there's still the fact that there was a world war in 1914 and all the other signs are there, among many other things."
In conversation 4 (in September): "Well - OK, you got me there; the scriptures showing that the earth is a globe really only describes a circle, most likely flat, but that doesn't budge my faith, because there's still the prophecies that have been fulfilled, among many other things."
In conversation 5 (in November): "Well - OK, you got me there; Jehovah's Witnesses' beliefs were totally different from today back in 1919 when they were chosen by Christ, and they still celebrated Christmas etc., but that doesn't budge my faith, because there's still the fact that Jehovah's Witnesses are the only organization that preaches that name world wide, among many other things."
And so on and so forth: Basically, in each conversation, a point may be conceded, but "there are all those other reasons that I believe, so it doesn't really matter. I see the big picture."
What really is happening though, is that in each conversation one "card" is removed from the "house of cards", but in the next conversation, that same card has 'magically' reappeared, keeping the figurative house of cards up. In reality, the house has fallen apart long ago, but since "there are all those other "cards" there for my house to stay up", it magically stays up in the mind of the JW.
And for some reason, I didn't see this back then, and many don't see it today when they are 'pushed'.
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The Average JW WILL NOT Leave!!!!
by minimus inyou could have stupid new light every week published and the vast majority aren't going anywhere.
you could see proof of contradiction after contradiction right in front of your nose, if you're a witness.
and you still won't budge.. the reason: mental and spiritual laziness.
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Awakened07
Come on Awakened.... what really woke you up?????
share...oompa
Well - I'm actually not sure, but I think I started to question things even while I was active; questions I couldn't find an answer to even in prayer or the literature. So I buried it for a while, but then a situation changed in my life which caused me to miss a few meetings, and the ball started rolling, and I had time and opportunity to find answers to my questions elsewhere when possible. The internet I think must have been part of it as well. I used to discuss my beliefs with non-JWs online, and after a while I found that they often had better answers than me, corrected some misconceptions I had about science among other things, and I didn't "win" even when directly quoting our literature. Actually instead, my quotes got ridiculed, and with good reason. This made me wonder, because to me, the literature was more or less directly from Jehovah's mouth. So slowly but surely, my eyes opened. I'm actually remembering this as I post, so thanks for asking!
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The Average JW WILL NOT Leave!!!!
by minimus inyou could have stupid new light every week published and the vast majority aren't going anywhere.
you could see proof of contradiction after contradiction right in front of your nose, if you're a witness.
and you still won't budge.. the reason: mental and spiritual laziness.
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Awakened07
It's also about fear. Too much is invested in this for it to be wrong. "It can't be wrong. Where will we go? It just can't. And even if there are some bad apples in the org., it's 1) because people are imperfect, and 2) shows that Jesus is active in removing the bad apples. The org. is still Jehovah's instrument in these last days."
Nothing penetrates through that stuff. I'm amazed I got out of that way of thinking myself, and am a little mystified at how it happened.
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29
Is it all just a 'Cosmic Crapshoot'?
by AK - Jeff infirst my faith in the wts went away.. later my faith in religion [for purposes other than fellowship] went away.
to date, my faith in the existence of the 'great cause' remains, but is tarnishing in some respects.
i have no clear picture of what we really are, where we are really going, and why we exist.
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Awakened07
I agree with serotonin_wraith.
The way I see it, it all starts with intelligence. Intelligence leads to self-awareness. Self awareness leads to questions.
Let's as an experiment give life and intelligence to a snow flake:
"Wow - what a wonderful place I find myself in! And look at all my siblings - we're all unique, and we're all crafted with great precision in intricate geometrical shapes! And think of how we came to be: had the temperature been just slightly warmer, or the humidity been too low we wouldn't exist at all. This is proof that the Great Snowflake created us in It's image. Sure - we'll fall to the ground and eventually disappear, but we'll be given life again. What would be the purpose of all this otherwise?" Now take their life away again, and they're 'only' snowflakes - a result of natural processes. Beautiful, unique - but only snowflakes.
I'd like there to be a bigger meaning and purpose, and who knows, maybe there is, but currently I'm getting more and more convinced otherwise. But maybe that'll change.